What the heck would this taste like? I found a blog that claims it exists, anyone ever read or come across one?
On the bottom picture, the tree wood looks like an apricot.
Frank, it surely is beautiful! Would love to know more.
Thanks for the interesting story. I hope we can get our hands on more such fruits before long.
My experience so far is that these fruits largely taste like what they look like. The fruit pictured looks like a plum and probably tastes that way. But there could be surprises at any turn.
Interesting. I bet these are from the Zaigers. Will have to check with Tom Spellman when he comes around my way, and ask about this interspecific. Very interesting. I also particularly like that flat Peacotum, I'd like to try to grow that one for sure. Again, pretty sure that's from the Zaigers. Great blog, btw.
This particular website is a crock, or at least some of it is -- look at the last thing, a "pear melon hybrid" -- no such thing, ever!! The plum thing looks like a plum and the flat peachy thing looks just like a peach. I am growing many true hybrids and the leaves look like a hybrid as well. My guess is some of these are probably true hybrids and some are not.
You're probably right. I was doing some research on Israel stonefruit hybrids and that is how I came across that blog.
Ben-Dor fruits in Israel has some interesting stuff:
Zaiger isn't the only one breeding interesting new fruit. And this company isn't afraid to give a brix number. While they aren't shown everywhere I found many on the Ben-dor website.
Why can't US nurseries give brix? Almost everyone wants objective info instead of the flowery crap nurseries usually hand out.
Here is a link that might be useful: More on interesting Ben-dor fruits
>This particular website is a crock, or at least some of it is -- look at the last thing, a "pear melon hybrid" -- no such thing, ever!!
Well, the Ben-dor site listed above also calls things Plumegranates, and "Watermelon Plums" which sound def 'wrong' literally, but meant to describe the fruit/hybrid better to 'common' consumers. I think the blog looks legit and is trying to say, Yes those are ridiculous names meant to fool/attract supermarket consumers with flashy names in the sentence below (and some may not even be legits hybrids but a plum marketed to peeps that way as having the taste of cherry pretend).
"Meanwhile, marketers sometimes try to cash in on the interspecific mystique with names such as mango nectarines, strawberry cherries and Plumegranates. Marketers may not be deliberately trying to deceive buyers, but a lot of consumers wonder about the possibility of such hybrids, which in reality are as preposterous as jackalopes."
That last picture i will have to admit is pretty crazy lol, not sure what in actuality that would be a hybrid of? a pear and melon and... zebra lol? I did google it and found the original pic i think:
Guess its something from the cucumber/melon family marketed as something that tastes like a pear? since like its called a 'Pera-Melon'.
That's some exciting stuff right there. Thanks for posting frank. It does make me wonder how long it will be before I ever see any of those living here well off the beaten track. One poster last Summer showed some nearly 3 inch across Apricots he purchased out in Caly. There again, pretty limited in their distribution most likely at this point. Such a bummer and bordering on torture!!!
The last item looks like Solanum muricatum, often called pepino dulce.
Some of the pictured fruits sure do look appealing! Who wouldn't want a cherry closer to the size of a plum! However, Fruitnut's cautious perspective is appropriate, I'm sure.
The one time I had the opportunity to tour the Zaiger facility, I had pre-arranged to get some starts of a plant I wanted from someone who was also going to be there. (He had actually arranged the event with Zaiger/Dave Wilson.)
Anyway, he brought me some green shoots in a bag at the end of the day, while I was sampling fruit at a tasting table. When I started walking to the parking lot some time later, there was a minor commotion. One of the staff rushed toward me excitedly and (politely) asked me what I was carrying away!
It only took one close look to convince her that the plant material I had was absolutely nothing that they were working on breeding. But I can understand their concern: with some of these items, it would be so, so tempting to snap just one little piece of budwood and take it away...
The Ben-dor "Plumegranates" and "Watermelon Plums" seem to be what would more traditionally be called "blood plums". The marketers obviously think that the term "blood" as applied to a fruit might be unappealing to the general public.
What were your favorite Zaiger/other crosses you guys sampled so far?
I was curious about the peacotum and some other weird ones SpiceZee,etc.
Hope to fruit the Bella Gold peacotum this year. My two favorite pluot are Flavor King and Flavor Finale. They are better than any plum I've tried.
SpiceZee has been OK but not as good as several nectarine over two years tasting. The apriums haven't been any better than apricots of similar season but Tasty Rich is good and big for very early fruit.
Superior fruit will probably be limited to specific cultivars. I don't think you will find a whole class of fruit as clearly superior. But maybe something like the cherryplums will be outstanding.
I did see one guy from DWN say we're not trying to breed a 30 brix sweet cherry the size of a plum? My response, why not!! They could sell a 30 brix anything if it had good flavor, IMO.
They could also sell a 20 brix anything if it had a flavor equal to a Flavor King.
Flavorella, a 50/50 plum/apricot, is very special if the brix can be brought up to 22+. Below 16-18 it's just sour. It has by far the greatest fragrance of any fruit I've grown.
It would be crazy to get a fruit that is 25% apricot, 25% plum, 25% cherry and 25% peach :)
Obviously the fruit above looks like it has a lot of plum to it. The seed looks weird, almost apricotish, but bigger. Definitely not plum or peach.
I guess you could cross a pluot (plum/apricot)cherum (cherry/plum) and peachcot (peach/apricot) and come up with a Frankenfruit
Well, Scott, perhaps this is not a crock. Frank and all, you might want to check out Dennis Tarry's comment to my inquiry on DWN's Facebook page. Dennis Tarry is the CEO of DWN. Very interesting comment!!
Here is a link that might be useful: Dave Wilson Nusery Facebook Page
Awesome. Hopefully Raintree or some mail order nursery will carry it in the years ahead.
Pretty cool :-) I have a local nursery I can place a future order via DWN's special order program, so I can basically get whatever I want. Very spoiled I am.
Around here, people are still sad about the Peachcot formerly sold by LE Cooke, which the USDA apparently lost during virus indexing. I have a friend who lived in a rented house 25 years ago which had two peachcot trees in the front yard. She described the fruit as fabulous and she has been looking for a replacement for several years. Other than the Fannick peachcot in Texas ("chill-neutral", August-ripening) I am not aware of any other outside Australia/New Zealand.
I wasn't saying it was all a crock, only some of it. Along with the pear/melon thing I don't think the flat peach thing on the linked website is anything more than a flat peach.
There is also the mild crock aspect to the Zaiger genetic origins -- most of their interspecifics are 98%+ plum. A few are plumcots, 50-50 or thereabouts plum/apricot, and there are a few sand cherry/plum crosses. I don't know of any of their interspecifics which have more than a "noise" amount of peach genes in them. Note that I don't particularly care whats in them, if they are breeding great fruits I am more than willing to put up with their marketing spin.
You can't actually get anything DWN has, can you? I thought the special order program was only a list of specific cultivars none of which I've wanted.
Fruitnut, Flavor Finale seems to be rising in you evaluations. I have a friend who bought two trees. Have you noticed when it blooms in relation to your other Pluots and plums?
Flavor Finale blooms pretty late for me in relation to the other pluot. The bumblebees love it so it might be a good late pollinator. Emerald Drop which the bees also love is done blooming by the time Finale starts. Those two would be good possiblities as pluot pollinators covering most of the bloom.
Finale has rather variable fruit compared to most pluot. This is because it can soften at the tip end as it ripens. I've had some I really liked and some not so much. The flavor can be very good but not really comparable to Flavor King. I probably like Geo Pride, Flavor Treat, and Flavor Grenade as much as Finale. Just depends on the last piece of fruit I ate.
fruitnut, so far, whatever I've asked for, Ganter has been able to get for me. I also think Anderson Nursery can get pretty much anything. Maybe I haven't asked for something that isn't on the special order program list??
Thanks for the info. on Flavor Finale. The only other Pluot/plum she has is Dapple Dandy, which blooms before Flavor King here.
Do you think Emerald Drop blooms as early as Flavor Supreme? I'm thinking of getting an Inca plum to pollinate it. Geo Pride seems to have improved the set of my early-blooming Pluots, particularly Flavor Queen. It's not planted near Flavor Supreme and last year my plum bloom was compressed, so I don't have a good feel for their comparative earliness of bloom. Didn't you get a Flavor Royale? Any blooms yet?
Wonder how Flavor Treat would compare in flavor to an Emerald Beaut or October Sun plum? Still trying to find a good pollenizer for Emerald Beaut so I don't have to refrigerate blooming branches. You had recommended Royal Diamond plum, but I don't know how to get it, since it's on DWN's commercial side. Bought an Elephant Heart, hoping that this will be a step in the right direction.
Thanks for those leads. I'd like to try more of Zaigers low chilling, early blooming, early maturity sweet cherries. Right now the only way I could get them is to buy 10 tree bundles of each.
For me Emerald Drop blooms just before Flavor Supreme and right after Flavor Queen which for years started blossom season. They all have great overlap. I set one of my potted Flavor Supreme right amongst the Emerald Drop branches this year. I expect about 10 times more fruit set that way than even being a few feet apart.
I did get Flavor Royale and it's a very early bloomer. Crimson Royale and Honey Punch also bloomed the first time this year. They are both late bloomers. Ruby Kat is supposed to be self fertile and bloomed on the later end. I'll hopefully have fruit on all for the first time this year. But due to bee issues maybe not.
My Emerald Beaut turned out to be Dapple Dandy so I planted another tree just this year. Flavor Finale might cover the later bloomers, certainly worth a try.
Flavor Treat is worth growing if you can get it. It's a couple weeks later than Finale. Not quite the flavor of Finale but a much sounder fruit for late storage. Mine lasted into Dec last fall. It's firm, big, beautiful, and can get very sweet. 20-30 brix averaging about 25 even in Dec. To get that requires a long term water deficit. Brix would probably be more like 20 average with more water. I've measured 12-35 on individual fruits.
Most of the plum cot hybrids i've tried were flat and insipid, worse than either parent alone, with one exception, a sort of green yellow colored plumcot that did have some apricot flavor. Wish i'd noted its name.
For Apricots in marginal climates I'd go with Montrose. A true apricot that blooms later and is tough.
Fruitnut, I hope your pollination strategy for Flavor Supreme works. Sounds like a great idea. This variety just doesn't attract bees, though I have seen gnats and houseflies on it during bloom. My first tree is in a location far from other early bloomers and it has been a struggle getting fruit to set.
I bought a tree for the other lot, and I think I have just the place for it-- next to Geo Pride and southeast of Flavor Queen and Dapple Dandy. With a beehive to the south. Is Emerald Drop similar enough in vigor that I could plant it where it crossed branches with Flavor Supreme? I had also considered grafting Inca plum to the top of the Flavor Supreme tree. Inca is apparently self-pollenizing.
Just to fill in the information you have provided, where does Flavor Treat fall in the Pluot bloom season. Thanks for all your help.
Flavor Supreme is the most vigorous pluot so nothing will quite keep up. Flavor King and Grenade are among the weakest. Emerald Drop is a bit on the weaker side. On a three way tree with Splash and Geo Pride, ED is a bit weaker.
Grafting in Inca, Burgundy, Santa Rosa, or other plums would be a huge help if they bloom together.
Flavor Treat blooms middle to a little on the late side about with Flavor King and Grenade.
Thanks. I have trouble with pollination of plums/Pluots and the beginning and end of the season. Flavor Supreme almost always blooms first for me but my tree was planted in a different location from Flavor Queen and Dapple Dandy.
I spoke with the sales manager at L.E. Cooke years ago, before they started selling Inca again, and he said it was the earliest-blooming plum they had on the premises in Visalia yet it set heavily. The staff preferred to snack on it even though it was not at that time in their sales lineup. He said it was dropped commercially because it has a tendency to develop split pits. L.E. Cooke now seems to limit its plum lineup mostly to self-pollenizing varieties.
Fruitnut, I can guess why you chose to try Flavor Royale. Crimson Royale and Honey Punch from among the newer commercial Pluots. I noticed that Dapple Jack is supposed to have higher brix than Dapple Dandy, and wondered why you are not trying it.
Hey I am the brix junkie!! Have to live up to my reputation. But, I did call my old fieldman from DWN, Tim Morris from when I lived in CA, and he recommended those three varieties as the first three out of his mouth. Guess he's a brix junkie too!! I have found his advise good in the past.
I had to buy 10 tree bundles of each which left me with about 8 extra of each. We could work out something like that in the future. I'd pay for all 10 trees, you ship me a couple and distribute the rest to other growers in CA. It would have to be a really good looking prospect, like maybe Dapple Jack. Let me know if you come up with a candidate.
Count me in on that fruitnut and Carolyn. I'm for sweet stone fruits, just have to find somewhere to plant them, as I'm out of room along my walkway.
Might be a plan, Fruitnut. I'll check around. Maybe my local nursery can order a bundle if I can sell them on a variety. They may know some farmer's market growers who might like to trial a variety.
Last year they got a "stray" in a bundle of Pluots and I bought it after it leafed out and it became obvious that it was bundled with a different variety. Still had the rootstock tag. Think it's Splash, but we'll see. To me, that's gambling.
Now that we're all lusting after Flavor Treat thanks to Fruitnut, I noticed that Dave Wilson has a picture of Flavor Treat at their site, but it's not in their list of either commercial or home varieties. Strange.
And Patty, now is the time when you start planting in the yards of friends and neighbors. I'm considering that with a couple of plums from which I want budwood. They should pollenize my trees from across the street, too. I bought a Flavor Grenade for one friend this year, and hope to get another friend a Flavor King. You have to assess how "into" gardening they are and pick easy or more challenging varieties depending on their expected level of care. And maybe drop by for dormant spraying and painting trunks every year.
I think this is also a good idea with vegetable and melon seeds. Give a gardener you know seeds of premium varieties in return for a little produce, or buy seed for a local nursery to grow out, with an agreement that they'll call you when plants are ready.
I've got that going with my next door neighbor, as well as my neighbor across the street, carolyn! I have a small greenhouse that I'm getting ready to finish up. I'm actually going to put a gate in our fence, so my next door neighbors can just come in and put their stuff on their shelf in my greenhouse. Still have to get water and electricity in there, and get screening up somehow around the struts (still have not figured out how to do that, yet, but I'll get it figured out somehow). I have room in my yard, but not down where I want to put the stone fruits, so I'm going to look at the back yard up on the north side to see if I can squeeze in a few more varieties. I keep everything pruned way down, so I might be able to get a few things in, there.