Rootstock question

mrsg47(7)February 18, 2014

Hi all. I lost an apricot that was on Krymsk 1 rootstock. I killed the stump but it suckered like crazy. Can I successfully graft my Damson scion wood to the Krymsk 1 rootstock healthy suckers? I have two suckers that are two years old and would make lovely trees. I have been taking care of them, just in case I ever wanted to try grafting. Now is my chance? Many thanks, Mrs. G

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marknmt

Yes, you can. I did the very same thing with an apricot on Marianna. In essence you have stooled the rootstock- that's how they are propagated, if I understand correctly. Here's a good Youtube video I just ran across quite accidently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn9nzWr9Q1w

I have had only extremely limited success grafting apricots. They are rather picky about the temperature range at which they will callous. Good luck and have fun.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kuffle Creek on stooling

This post was edited by marknmt on Tue, Feb 18, 14 at 13:34

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 1:21PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

I've had luck budding apricots in summer, but i've never tried grafting them. I would try grafting them and if that doesn't work, bud them later in the year?

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 1:35PM
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marknmt

Frank, I'm afraid I used the term "grafting" too loosely. I meant budding!

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 1:51PM
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mrsg47(7)

I guess I'm not familiar with 'grafting' terminology. I guess I want to 'bud' graft my Damson scion onto the Krymsk? Mrs. G

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 2:20PM
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marknmt

Yes, but most people just say "bud" when they are talking about inserting a single excised bud into a slit in the bark of the rootstock, often done in August. Generally when people use the term "grafting" they are referring to conjoining scions to the rootstock, done just as the tree is leafing out. So Frank was talking about spring grafting -cleft, whip, whip and tongue, to name a few- and resorting to budding in the summer if the graft failed. There is also "chipping" wherein a bud with a fair amount of wood is slipped into a notch on top of the branch.

I hope that was helpful.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 2:48PM
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alan haigh

Mrs. G, if you intend on doing in the spring you will be grafting and not budding. If the grafts don't take I can send you some buds later. I think budding is usually done with fresh buds off a growing tree- not from dormant stored wood.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 3:26PM
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mrsg47(7)

Thanks all. OK, I'll continue reading in the interim. Oh goodie! Mrs. G

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 4:02PM
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JoppaRich(7b)

I wish people would use correct terms.. it makes conversations like this much easier to understand.

Budding IS grafting, just like a square IS a rectangle.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 4:03PM
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marknmt

Joppa is quite right, but the convention is to distinguish the two (or three, if you include chipping!)

How many different forms of spring grafting are there, anyway? Well, first include chipping, which can be done spring or summer. Then add banana, bark, cleft, wedge, whip, whip and tongue ... I'm probably missing several. In my understanding those are all considered as spring grafts, and aren't done later in the season for at least of couple of reasons, one being that it's difficult to keep scions dormant that long, and the other being that these grafts have to callous and should push new growth the same season as they are done- and there's just not enough time left if they are done too late, plus, you don't want fresh growth going into winter.

Budding depends on the availability of dormant buds from the current year's growth- and that's just not available until the current year's growth reaches a given point, although I suppose it's possible to freeze budsticks from one season to get a jump on the project the following summer. I don't know how viability would be affected. Seems unnecessary given how well budding works.

Well. Just thoughts. I hope others weigh in, and thanks.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 5:30PM
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curtis(5)

I would try a spring graft and if it fails fall back on the bud graft. Olpea and another member whose name I can't think of at the moment, have talked about the conditions in which spring peach grafting works. I assume you are working with the same conditions as peach. In short, highs in the 80's lows not below 50 for at least a week. wrap tightly and shade it for 1-2 weeks.

Now, to do the graft read up on how to do it, then practice by cutting random branches from other trees. be sure your graft has an inch or more of length making contact. By length I do not mean running length of the cut counting crossways, just up-down distance.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 9:34AM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

I think Scott has mentioned you need at least a period of warm weather (80F?) for spring grafting. The nice thing about chip budding in the summer, is once the buds have matured enough and the wood you are budding onto is thick enough, you have a very long period to get it done (like a solid 6 weeks or more)... I think last year i was still budding in September.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 9:48AM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

I have a very long season for budding, May to September in the greenhouse. But I've had best luck budding early and forcing 2 weeks later. If I bud August or later the buds heal in nicely but by spring when you'd cut back to force, the inserted bud often isn't viable. I don't understand this since late summer budding and spring forcing is a common commercial practice.

I can get 90% or more takes T budding all stone fruit in May and June. The wood especially on rootstock needs to be slipping freely and care needs to be taken to not damage either bud on scion or bark on rootstock.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 10:25AM
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marknmt

I sometimes t bud as backup to a cleft or w&t on pomes in late April. The weather can be quite unsettled then but the cool temps don't seem to hurt with pomes.

Like Fruitnut says, the bark has to be slipping. If it's not you can resort to chip budding.

Need to keep in mind that Fruitnut is working in a greenhouse and has a much longer growing period than many of us.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 10:41AM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

" I don't understand this since late summer budding and spring forcing is a common commercial practice."

That's what I mostly do Fruitnut. I wonder if the key is to bud late. Ideal time for me is the 1st of Sept. Allows for enough time to callus before winter and temps aren't too hot.

I've also budded in late spring/early summer with dormant wood. I plan to do more this spring. I don't hardly do any grafting, it just seems so much easier to bud to me, but I guess it's what one gets used to.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 9:35PM
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mrsg47(7)

Egad, I wish you all just spoke English! I'm catching every fourth word. I really need to do more reading. Holy Cow! Thank you though. Mrs. G

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 11:59PM
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Konrad___far_north(3..just outside of Edmonton)

>>if you intend on doing in the spring you will be grafting and not budding.Either way it's called grafting,...you can chip bud in spring,..more confusing?

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 7:49PM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Mrs. G,

When I mentioned budding, I meant specifically T-budding. I like it because it's so easy. Cut a T and slip a bud in.

You have to wait for the bark to slip, but I don't do any grafting before then anyway.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 8:45PM
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marknmt

Well, why don't we put together a brief primer? I found these same issues utterly confusing when I started, and I'm still figuring some of them out, so it might be useful to compile a little glossary.

For starters I'll offer four definitions of the term "Grafting":

1.) The conjoining of living tissues, one of which has been separated from its source. This description is designed to very broadly cover everything from budding to chipping to whip and tongue, among others, as well as bark grafting, to skin grafting for burn victims.

2) The conjoining of living tissue in the form of small branches to a different plant or a different part of the same plant. Commonly referred to as "grafting".

3.) The conjoining of living tissue in the form of a single bud of one plant into the bark of of another plant or a different part of the same plant. Commonly referred to as "budding" or "T-budding", occasionally as "bud grafting", and usually done in late summer but sometimes possible in spring.

4.) The conjoining of living tissue in the form of a single bud with substantial wood (called a "chip") of one plant into a similarly-sized spot on a different plant or a different part of the same plant. Called "chipping" or "chip budding".May be done either in spring or in summer.

Maybe others will clarify, expand, or contradict. These descriptions are meant to describe my understanding of the terms as generally used today, but I'm more than open to the possibility that I'm (gasp!) wrong about something!

:-)M

This post was edited by marknmt on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 21:53

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:52PM
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alan haigh

Mrs. G, when I suggested grafting your new Damson wood (which I will probably send you in the next couple weeks) I meant for you to try a splice graft which is much simpler than budding, and besides cleft grafts, is the only kind of graft I do. Running a small business tends to gravitate me to simplest, most time efficient methods. The splice graft fills the bill and I've seen people have great success with it their first go out with minimal confusion and very little study.

European plums are less cooperative for me than apples and pears, but once I learned to wait until after bloom to do them I've gotten decent success- about 70%.

You do want to watch the forecast and graft when warm sunny weather is expected- not necessarily 80 degrees, however- I suspect the 70's to be adequate or you wouldn't be able to graft in England- right?

Besides splice graft, tho only term or word you need to thoroughly understand is cambium, which as a garden writer I'm sure you already grasp fully. You also need to make sure the buds are facing in the right direction and that you don't graft the scion upside-down. Such grafts are unlikely to take, and if they do, are severely stunted (believe me, I've done it more than once).

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 7:08AM
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Noogy(6 sw mi)

Mrs. G.,
I also grafted apricots to K1.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 7:21AM
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mrsg47(7)

Olpea, Marknmt, H-man, Konrad, Franktank, Fruitnut,cckw, JoppaRich, and Noogy, I get to hang out with some really cool guys. Thanks so much for all of the translations and primer. I'm getting comfortable with all of it. Will start pruning next week, maybe a bit tomorrow since it will be so warm for the next two days. (50's here for two days). It all begins to make sense. Its just cutting through the definitions and instructions. Many, many thanks,all, Mrs. G

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 7:02PM
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