Can anyone give me info on hardiness of these in zone 4 or their exp. with this grape in zone 4?? They tell me none of the seedless are as hardy as the seeded var.
Canadice is supposed to be hardy in Zone 4. Go to Double A Vineyards' website and check our their hardiness charts.
Seedless are on average not as hardy as seeded but there are countless exceptions. Saturn is seedless and hardy in zone 2 and most vinafera, seeded or no, are difficult in zone 6.
I have had two Canadice vines growing for almost 10 yrs here in suburban Chicago. I have not had any trouble with their hardiness at all. I really love the flavor of a Canadice grape, and when I give some away to people I know they rave about them.
I was wondering, how large are your Canadice fruits? Mine are quite small, which surprised me. I am thinking of moving my vine to a sunnier spot to get bigger fruits...
'Saturn' is only hardy to zone 5. 'Canadice' is one of the hardier seedless, but may still be marginal in zone 4. The hardiest of all would probably be 'Petite Jewell'. It is sold by Fedco Trees, but sold out right now.
From Fedco's description:
"Petite Jewell Grape. Early-Very Early. (MN 78 x Canadice) Swenson intro, Minn. Very small pink or light red seedless grape with exquisite flavor. Slightly larger than a garden pea. Grower Ike Kerschner wrote in an email to me, Ã¢ÂÂThe flavor in my opinion is superior to Canadice and possibly the best flavored out of my collection of most of the available eastern seedless grapes.Ã¢ÂÂ¦When selling Petite Jewell [at farmers market] there is always a reluctance by buyers because of the small berry size. One taste convinces even the most skeptical customer.Ã¢ÂÂ John Marshall of Minnesota Grape Growers called Petite Jewell, Ã¢ÂÂvery tasty, even remarkably tasty.Ã¢ÂÂ No objectionable seed remnants in the fruit. Small loose clusters. Blooms early and could be hit by late frosts. Although the vine I am testing in Palermo (Zone 4) has thus far proven hardy, growers have warned me about its tenderness. It is certainly hardier than Canadice, but may be damaged at -25ÃÂ°. Z4(?) "
I'm not aware of any other nurseries selling it.
Here is a link that might be useful: Fedco
Just looked at some of the other grapes at Fedco. Take a look at Reliance. Seems to be hardy for them in zone 4 Maine.
"Reliance Seedless Grape Very Early. Arkansas 1163 (Ontario x Suffolk Red) Arkansas Stn, 1982. Probably the highest-quality seedless grape for the North. Large loose clusters of tender melting sweet pinkish-red fruit with a strawberry-like flavor. Fresh eating or juice. Stores well in root cellar for 1-2 months. Seems perfectly hardy in our Zone 4 trials. Lay vines down for the winter in coldest areas. Although the literature cautions about RelianceÃ¢ÂÂs disease susceptibility, our vines have performed well and have remained disease-free. Z4/5."
Here is a link that might be useful: Reliance grape at Fedco
Kiwinut, where did you get your hardiness data? I used the Double A chart which I always thought was pretty good. I just looked around for other information and I found both Cummins Nursery and a Purdue chart confirm the zone 2 for Saturn (Cummins just says "extraordinarily hardy"). See pdf below for the Purdue chart. For Canadice I can believe zone 4 may be stretching it, even though Purdue also claims zone 4. To some degree I think these charts are copied from one another. I notice that AA now calls Saturn zone 5 on their website -- ? My chart from them is a couple years old but its zone 2 there for sure.
That petite Jewell sounds really interesting, not even considering hardiness. My kids would probably love it.
Seahorse, my Canadice are good-sized grapes, not the monsters from the stores but bigger than Concords.
Here is a link that might be useful: Purdue grape info
I lost Canadice last winter after 3 years in the ground. Last winter was mild for a zone six to me. I'm guessing that since I can find no problems with insects or with the roots that I was just unfortunate in that it didn't fully harden off when colder temps finally did arrive last winter.
Oops forget my previous post! I was reading the hardiness numbers as zones but they weren't. bigger numbers are MORE hardy! Argh. I don't know where Cummins got the idea that Saturn was so hardy.