Truth about persimmons

ArborDay101February 4, 2013

I am a tree enthusiast, I have been planting trees since I was 8 years old with my dad and grandpa. The more I read, I am not that familiar with persimmons. I planted 5 trees 3 years ago and they are growing like crazy. I bought American persimmons and they were 12-18 inches tall when I got them and in the last 3 years they are 10-13 feet tall but have not shown signs of blossoms and such? Is this normal? I am prunning the trees upwards to avoid damage from deer when they start to spread out. I planted another 8 last year and they grew 6 inches to 2 feet in one year (different areas planted). I just bought 6 more FUYU persimmons, which I'm right on the border of where they say they should be planted but I'll try them.

Here are my questions:
1.) what fertilizer should I use? as of now I'm just giving them the same rate of Miracle Grow that I would for Tomatoes
2.) Why aren't they blooming at all? am I being to anxious?
3.) Will all persimmons bear fruit? some say yes, some no?
4.) If I graft trees that are male will they bear fruit? or do you need male trees to pollinate the female's?
5.) some sites say American persimmon's will self pollinate with bee activity? is this true? Male or female
6.) since I planted different varieties will they cross pollinate?

Thanks ahead for all the incite, pleae don't beat me up too bad for the stupid questions.
NF

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lkz5ia

Don't need to use fertilizer if you are getting that vigorous growth from them, which also can prevent flowering if all energy diverted to green growth . Three years isn't very long time period, but if they were grafted they may bloom. Some persimmons are strictly male and never fruit. What is your purpose of these trees? if it is for eating and they are not grafted, then you may want to graft onto them.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 11:53AM
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charlieboring

Fuyu persimmons are self fertilizing and will bear fruit. Occasionally, stress may cause fruit to fall off prematurely. American persimmons are either male or female and only the female will bear fruit. I believe that is is possible to graft the male onto a female such that pollination can occur from the same tree. Different varieties may or may not pollinate each other; it depends upon the date of their blooming. Different varieites bloom at different times.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 12:39PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

AD101,

I live in Omaha, NE. and I am doing a Kaki persimmons trial with winter protection. I don't think Fuyu will make it here without protection. In 2007, the temp in Omaha dropped to -19F. I think Ichi Kei Ki Jiro or Tam Kam for non-astringent persimmon. For Astrigent: Kyung San Ban Si, Nikita's Gift, Saijo, Sheng, or Rossyanka. See my winter protection for persimmon in the link below. Goodluck.

Tony

Here is a link that might be useful: Persimmon Winter Protection in Zone 5

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 1:36PM
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creekweb(6,7)

Answers to your questions:

1.) what fertilizer should I use? as of now I'm just giving them the same rate of Miracle Grow that I would for Tomatoes

I�ve found that using a high nitrogen fertilizer in the early going (first few years) helps establish a larger more vigorous tree.

2.) Why aren't they blooming at all? am I being to anxious?

It usually takes at least 4 or 5 years for seedling persimmons to start blooming.

3.) Will all persimmons bear fruit ? some say yes, some no?

Regarding American persimmon the answer is that most male trees will not bear fruit. If your seedling persimmons are male, they will most likely not bear fruit unless they are subsequently grafted with wood from a female tree.

4.) If I graft trees that are male will they bear fruit? or do you need male trees to pollinate the
female's?

You can graft male persimmon trees as discussed above. Female trees will often fruit without pollination so male trees may not be necessary. Pollinated flowers may produce larger, seedier fruit.

5.) some sites say American persimmon's will self pollinate with bee activity? is this true? Male or female

Some American persimmon trees have both male and female flowers and some believe these are capable of self pollination. But usually claims of this sort refer instead to persimmons� ability to fruit without pollination.

6.) since I planted different varieties will they cross pollinate?

They may but only if one variety has male flowers and the other female.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 3:48PM
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ArborDay101

Thanks for the replies. In response to lkz5ia. I am mostly planting these to bear fruit for human consumption as well as for the nature, bees, deer, birds, etc. on my sanctuary farm.
You guys have me a little concerned about my purchase of the fuyu breed although I'm right on the border between 5 and 6. should I call them and change my choice???
Also in reply to tonytran, if I do what you are suggesting how many years would this have to be done? It's entire life or just until it reaches a certain trunk size?
In response to creekweb thanks for the details I appreciate them. Can you guys give me a detailed site about grafting the trees? Can this be done at the trunk or do you have to do each main branch after the trunk?
Thanks Guys,
Neil

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 6:10PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

ArborDay101,

I have been planting trees since I was 8 years old with my dad and grandpa.

And it took you this long to join us here on Gardenweb? Welcome! :)

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 7:20PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

Neil,

I'm only one season into growing persimmons myself, but I've been making the same types of choices. Of course, I'm a full zone warmer, on the border between 6 and 7.

I'll echo Tony's choices- Ichi Kei Ki Jiro and Tam Kam. I have Tam Kam in the ground and have ordered IKKJ for this spring. Both are consistently listed as hardy to zone 6, while Fuyu is usually listed for zone 7.

Some good places to read about Persimmon varieties:
JustFruitandExotics
EdibleLandscaping

StarkBros also lists IKKJ at 6 and Fuyu at 7.

If you are buying 6 trees, that's a lot to invest in something which is 1.5 zones out. If you can, switching the variety sounds like a good idea. From what I've read on the site, it doesn't sound like there is a big divergence in flavor anyway (for the non-astringent).

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 8:02PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

AD101,
I only keep the Kaki persimmons to about 8 feet tall for easy wrapping. All of them are about 5 years old and my plan for next year is to let them be without any winter protection and only intervene when the temperature drops beyond -10F. So far this winter the lowest temp was -6F and the windchill was -22F. I removed the tarps yesterday and bagged all the dry leafs. The woods were green and healthy. They survived another year here in Omaha, NE zone 5. I am looking toward to another good harvest season.

Tony

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 11:21PM
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bennylafleur(6 E. Tn.)

Neil

It is my understanding from listening to others that non astringent kakis, in general, are not as cold hardy as the astringent types, and that there is very little difference in taste between the non astringent varieties.
I have a friend with many years experience growing kakis, and his opinion is that 20th Century is the most cold hardy.
About your seedlings, if they flower this year, male flowers will be in a cluster, usually 3, and females will be single.

Benny

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 9:12AM
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indicente

20 Century is non-astringent variety? And what about minimal temps it had survived? Found only short report by Australian gardeners, but certainly they have no problems with low winter temperatures there. I heard that Hana Fuyu should be cold hardy at least to 0 F and I wanted to have experiments with PCNA Tam Kam and Gwang Yang, but no plant source in my area.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2013 at 4:20PM
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bennylafleur(6 E. Tn.)

20th Century is a non-astringent. It has survived -6 degrees F. several times.

Benny

    Bookmark   February 7, 2013 at 11:10PM
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miketrees(WA Australia)

A bit of Potassium can help trees crop, especially if they have had a high Nitrogen diet.
Persimmons get Mg deficiency quite easily and potassium can make that worse

    Bookmark   February 8, 2013 at 4:21AM
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indicente

Benyl
that is useful information about cold hardiness of 20 Century variety.Are fruits crunchy or mushy?I like firm,ripe persimmon fruits to eat like apples,looking for suitable PCNA persimmon in 6b zone.Is 20Century late ripening variety?

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 3:16AM
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bennylafleur(6 E. Tn.)

20th Century is PCNA, can be eaten firm like Fuyu.
Not sure of the ripening time.

Benny

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 8:03AM
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creekweb(6,7)

Mine ripen after Hana Fuyu and before my Fuyu. I like them a little soft so for me late October early November. These ripen faster and with good quality off the tree, and as I don't want to tempt squirrels any longer than I need to, I pick as soon as they color up.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 11:55AM
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indicente

Thanks for answers.Hope I will get this persimmon soon-where is origin of this variety,american selection?

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 2:09PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

As I recalled, this was a variant of Fuyu.

Tony

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 10:53PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Duplicate post. Deleted.

This post was edited by tonytran on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 9:21

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 10:54PM
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ben1941

Has anyone planted a fuyu in a container successfully in zone 5? I would like to see if it could be done with protection in the winter.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2013 at 1:49PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Ben,

You can plant just about any Asian Persimmon in the container and over winter it in a garage around this time of the year. I have been doing it for the last 4-5 yrs now. Some of them after 2-3 yrs I just then planted them in the ground near the south side of the house and wrap it up for winter protection.

Tony

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 8:22AM
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