Is anyone using this in any way other than as a tea or in capsules? If so, how do you prepare it?
Is your inquiry based on Dr. Oozes' show? (Whoops! Typo. I meant Dr. Oz.)
No, I've never seen Dr. Oz. My inquiry is based on research into ways to help my mom with her memory, as she seems to be slipping into alzheimer's/dementia. She has trouble swallowing pills, and would not drink the tea because it is bitter.
One site recommended a wine extract, and I've seen a medical paper listing 9 ways to extract it the bacoposides. The most effective was supposedly soaking it in water and then percolating ethyl alchohol through it, but I thought I would see what other herbalists do.
Alcohol extract may be the best way under the circumstances. For a pound of the herb, you'd cover the herb in vodka. Let it set a week, then strain. If you soak a pound and it yields 1 quart, you'll have a 1:2 menstrum. That's the average strength for use. You only need about 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoons of this extract daily. If you boiled it into a decoction, you'd need 2-3 times that amount of liquid to get similar action. Alcohol extracts are very efficient.
I couldn't find the specific reason for this herb's actions, but the little I know it doesn't sound like it will address the underlying causes of Alzheimer. Have you considered using small amounts of rhodiola or eleuthro (siberian ginseng) or asian ginseng provided she doesn't have high blood pressure? These address Kidney Qi, Blood & Essence deficiency. But you have to be careful using it since you don't want to damn up energies and stagnation thereby giving her side effects. Little is more.
See how involved it gets? Be safe. Maybe kalia can add to this.
Thank you so much! One of my sources offers this explanation for its effectiveness:
"Alzheimer's disease is a neurodegenerative disorder characterized by progressive dementia. Bacopa monniera is described in the Ayurvedic Materia Medica, as a therapeutically useful herb for the treatment of cognitive impairment, thus supporting its possible anti-Alzheimer's properties. Our studies have shown that Bacopa monniera reduces beta-amyloid deposits in the brain of an Alzheimer's disease animal model. The objective of this study was to establish the presence of endogenous substances in Bacopa monniera extract (BmE) that will impact components of the oxidative stress cascade such as the reduction of divalent metals, scavenging of reactive oxygen species, alterations of lipoxygenase activity and hydrogen peroxide-induced lipid peroxidation. The extract contained polyphenols and sulfhydryl contents suggestive of endogenous antioxidant activity. The results demonstrated that BmE reduced divalent metals, dose-dependently scavenged reactive oxygen species, decreased the formation of lipid peroxides and inhibited lipoxygenase activity. These data combined with our previous studies that have shown that BmE treatment reduces beta-amyloid levels in the brain of an Alzheimer's disease doubly transgenic mouse model of rapid amyloid deposition (PSAPP mice) suggesting mechanisms of action relevant to the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. Copyright © 2007 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd."
If you are interested in reading more:
bacopa is an herb used in ayurvedic (east indian) traditional folk medicine. bacopa's action is on the brain and it is known to be helpful in folks with a deficiency of acetylcholine. acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter involved in brain function, people with alzheimer's don't have enough of it.
it is usually taken as a standardized (concentrated) extract in pill form, you should be able to get it at a good health food store or online. it tastes awful as you already found out so a pill is a good thing.
another way to help increase neurotransmitters is to give the body the raw materials it needs to make them. this is mainly the B vitamins and minerals esp magnesium. liquid trace minerals are easiest to use, they are salty so i just put a few drops in whenever i cook something, works fine. vitamin D is essential. healthy fats in general help the brain, coconut oil has been shown to help with alzheimer's, a couple tablespoons a day would be about right. you would also want to avoid eating lots of sugary foods. choline helps make acetylcholine, choline is found in egg yolks so an egg a day makes sense.
hope you find something here you can use, best wishes to you and your mom
I'll definitely be adding cocnut oil to MY diet, if not hers!
I can't get her to give up sweets but she is taking the most of the others. And of course, I have her scheduled with foe every imaginable test. (Before we changed her internist, his physicians assistant asked me what difference a diagnosis would make, implying that senility is a necessary apart of age.)
thank you for your help,
You said something significant to me: "I can't get her to give up sweets . . . " I usully pursue such a comment with more questions to determine if she might have candida as well. I always incorporate a custom formula that will clear the candida and the cravings for sugar in about 3-5 days.
It can and does get quite involved especially with the elderly.
Yes, it does.
If I want to add something to her RX schedule, it has to be physician approved. Happily for me, her new internist is amenable to herbs, as long as I bring in the supporting research to show why something might work.
I was able to get her taken off synthetic thyroid last year, and the natural version has helped her to give up between meal chocolate/ice cream snacking, but desserts are the highlight of mealtime at her assisted living facility. If you have sources to support your custom formula and it has no side effects or drug interactions, (and if it is available in liquid form), I'd be interested in hearing more about it.
Sorry, Jan. I have no such research information. I don't even know if my formula would even be what she needs without a complete evaluation. I'm a clinician and our work is an art form. That requires thinking beyond the obvious and customizing to the individual's needs. Often times, internists want written proof, because they can't be responsible for something they know nothing about.
Sorry I can't help you with anything more than this.
to curb sugar cravings very effectively and simply add supplemental GTF chromium, 400 micrograms per day divided into two doses of 200 mcg each. if this doesn't quite control the cravings you may increase the dosage to 800 micrograms per day in two divided doses of 400 each.
Most people get all the chromium they need from foods naturally, without taking supplements (for instance "brewer’s yeast, meats, potatoes (especially the skins), cheeses, molasses, spices, whole-grain breads and cereals, and fresh fruits and vegetables. Drinking hard tap water supplies chromium to the body, and cooking in stainless-steel cookware increases the chromium content in foods."
And while chromium supplements are generally viewed as safe, serious problems have been reported (for instance, liver and kidney damage, irregular heart rhythm etc.). And safety of long-term use of such supplements has not been established, important since chromium can cause oxidative damage to DNA and has been found to be mutagenic.
It's probably best to stick to natural food sources unless there is a documented chromium deficiency (a rarity).
Good thing that jll0306 is working with the internist to make sure any alternative remedies are integrated properly with prescription meds and are safe and efficacious.
message me if you'd like an email with accurate information about chromium supplementation based on clinical work with real people as well as scientific research. (not some canned generic response i found on the net somewhere)
Eric, I appreciate your concern. I am sure the internist would test for chromium levels before prescribing it. She is very careful about not overmedicating.
But, as HerbDoc said, the situation gets to be very complex with the elderly. And that's without even examining the conflicting variables, such as nutrition levels of institutional food and mineral depletion in RO water.
Thank you for the recommendation, Kali. I have read some of the research on chromium, because my DH battles weight gain, and is always looking for the miracle pill. He's one of those ABE types (anything but exercise) and he would have taken every OTC remedy at the same time if he thought it would help.
His heart doctor now has him on a lecthin restricted diet. He can have grass fed meats, certain seafoods, Kosher turkey, Greens and brassicas. Dairy is restricted to goat products, eggs, and cheese imported from certain countries. Nuts, to macadamia, walnuts, and pistachio.
No root vegetables. No asparagus. No legumes. No cucurbits. No Solanacae. No grains. Boring, but healthy, and I'm learning more than I ever wanted to know about the pitfalls of baking with alternate flours.
This has put a big cramp in my gardening style, though. All the things that grow best here are verboten!
Correction..that should be lectin, not lecithin.
If I was you, I would research and watch Dr.Robert Morse videos on YouTube, and get his book "detox miracle sourcebook".. Robert Morse deals with alzheimer's, dementia, diabeties, lymphoma, and other serious "diseases" on a daily basis.. I'm sure you could pull up something by youtubing "dr Robert morse dementia/alzheimer's".. His videos are kind of long and beats around the bush,frankly.. His book is straightforward and i could not recommend it enough.. Wish your mother the best of luck.
there are many misconceptions about detoxing....its not a one size fits all therapy.
it can certainly be beneficial if the person has an excess condition.
however, detoxing/fasting a person with a deficiency condition often makes the condition worse because the detox pushes the person even further out of balance. nourishing therapies are better suited for deficiency.
Kaliaman gave a good answer.
The genesis of "detoxification" myths goes back centuries and continues to this day with popularity of enemas, "cleanses", "ionic foot baths" and other treatments that purport to heal or prevent a long list of ailments, but only cleanse a person's wallet of cash.
Those who understand a little basic human physiology will recognize "detoxification" for the nonsense that it is.
Dr. Robert Morse sure cures more people than any other docter I ever knew. He has been healing people for more than 40 years! I know you guys are skeptical, but there is no money being made.. Just eating fruits and vegetables. I personally, would rather eat a piece of fruit, then take chromium supplements..
i'm not skeptical joe. i've seen what you are talking about myself many times.
folks used to eating the SAD (standard american diet) do feel better quickly when they begin eating a whole fresh foods diet, they are suddenly being flooded with much needed nutrients so feel more vital.
i'm just saying that detox is not the best therapy for everyone, it makes some people better, others worse.
food based nutrients are best for sure, no argument there. chromium supplements are meant to correct deficiency that cannot be corrected by eating a piece of fruit joe. if you'd seen the benefits some folks derive from it you might change your mind. and besides, it doesn't have to be one or the other....each has appropriate uses, food first, then supplements if needed.
Eating more fruits and vegetables is solid nutritional advice backed by evidence-based medicine.
It has nothing to do with "detoxification".
Since herbs, whole grain foods and other natural parts of our diet are good sources of chromium, I wonder why we're seeing recommendations for taking artificial chromium supplements in this forum (especially if no deficiency in this element has been documented).
There seems to be a little confusion about just what detoxification is. It's simply a cleansing of unwanted wastes that have accumulated. Eric is right to some degree in that people are getting bilked of much money trying so-called detoxification programs. However, it has long been recognized that fruits are natural cleansers and your vegetables are the builders. Thus, a diet of fruits is a kind of gentle and mild form of detoxification. And who can argue that taking some dandelion root tea is anything other than a detoxification remedy?
Kaliaman gives good and reasonable input by saying "i'm just saying that detox is not the best therapy for everyone, it makes some people better, others worse." That's a balanced statement. No one size fits all.
Wow...looks like we have a hobbyhorse derby going on. Some of y'all seem to be very wedded to your opinions.
I'm in the camp that believes there are many ways and levels of detox, each has an appropriate time and place for use, Same for the chromium supplements, Many people don't, can't, or won't eat well,
right on jan! well said.
i only post what i have learned from personal and/or professional experience working in a sliding scale herb/nutrition clinic these past years.
you won't ever find me posting googled blurbs about things i know little or nothing.
we're unique individuals so it makes sense that one size does not fit all, there are lots of variations on the theme out there.
and minds are meant to be open and flexible as that's how we learn! anyone who comes here to be the authority who is always 'right' is missing the point and the fun of learning and sharing in community.
The problem (and it's not unique to this forum) is that anyone can claim to be a trained practitioner of some sort or to have had personal experience trying a remedy, and there's no way of knowing if that's the case.
For instance - there've been plenty of posts in the Herbalism Forum touting a particular supplement, device or treatment that are obviously from spammers (a clue is that they are heavily focused on the alleged virtues of a particular product or service, and are usually the first post by a newly registered poster who often does not return to participate in that or other discussions).
And a frequent poster who's gone through several usernames proclaims vast expertise as an herbalism practitioner, but actually was trained in carpentry and metal refinishing and sells flooring and mobile homes in Arizona.
There are posters who may be exactly what they say they are, but that doesn't necessarily make their suggestions valid either.
If you're willing to take everyone and their testimonials at face value, that's your prerogative. Others will prefer to see documentation from reliable sources to back a claim, especially when it affects something as important as your health, or that of your loved ones.
This post was edited by eric_oh on Mon, Apr 8, 13 at 18:58
Man, I love this discussion! It has some very,very good points.. An what I like most is that we are not fighting like we normally are trying to in other debates, we are merely voicing opinions and not trying to get the upper hand on one another.. You guys have very foot truths! Let me try and pick apart some Quotes and start from there, if you will.. Now, all of you are not going to agree with me, of course,i am simply stating my beliefs and opinions, and what I believe is truth from my experience,etc as best as I could..
"I'm just saying that detox is not the best therapy for everyone, it makes some people better, others worse."
There are at least two times you feel a symptom(dis-ease,or whatever you like to call it).. That is when you consume something, and when it comes out..the people who eat a very pure diet of vegetable and fruits, sometimes feel weak,dizzy and even faint(me included).. They like to blame it on deficiencies and other factors making the diet look bad... But in reality the diet is cleansing you removing the impurities,toxins, so you are goon to feel like crap.. You feel in when it comes in, and when It come out.. I truly, seriously truly do believe that the only way to truly heal yourself is via detoxification: eating a pure diet of fruits an vegetables - cleaning your lymphatic system, lymph nodes, getting the kidneys filtering your l metabolic,waste,getting the adrenals working properly,etc,etc... One could take all the supplement to treat a defiency.. But you have to figure out why you are having the deficiency in the first place.. And ten to one, you are consuming the nutrients( espeically chromium, heavy metals are all over the place now a days) you are just not properly absorbing and utilizing the nutrient properly... If you clean your body, and start absorbing and utilizing nutrients properly, you don't have to waste your money on supplements..
"Eating more fruits and vegetables is solid nutritional advice backed by evidence-based medicine.
It has nothing to do with "detoxification"."
That's all me and Dr.Morse is advising eating a pure diet of raw fruits and vegetables, that simple.. Now detoxification just simply mean cleaning out toxins,etc.. You could call it what you want... You could call it feeling better, having more energy, whatever... When you start eating a pure diet of all raw
fruits and vegetables, for a few weeks and start having massive diaherra and urination, sweating,etc, something is clearly happening.. I call it detoxification.. Dandelion is well known and documented for liver detoxification.. Chlorophyll is also known to detoxify heavy metals.. As herbdocter knows, fruits are the cleaners and vegetables are the builders! He hit the nail right on the head!
"Eric is right to some degree in that people are getting bilked of much money trying so-called detoxification programs. "
That is very very sad, but true.. Even a week or two ago, this guy, on this forum, wa recomending going in a sonna(which is great), but then he recommended taking a niacin supplement and other things, which is a money game.. If someone says this is they only way to do it and sells the magic product of how to get well, that is a joke, your are likely to be harmed by the "supplement" and you are harmed of your money.. But it seems like you guys are talking about me an dr.morse and being the scandals... That is the farthest from the truth.. We are just advising you to eat raw fruits and vegetables.. And no, I don't sell vegetables or fruits(laughing)... And yes he does sell herbs, but that would stray to far away from this thread... You don't need any herbs, but it is ver beneficial to go forage for some wild edibles.. It is well known that they are highly medicinal.. Even Hippocrates stated "let your food be thy medicine".. I'm all for that.. Eat more raw fruits and vegetables.. Have some organic fruit trees, and a vegetable garden, learn how to forage,etc...
"However, it has long been recognized that fruits are natural cleansers and your vegetables are the builders. Thus, a diet of fruits is a kind of gentle and mild form of detoxification. And who can argue that taking some dandelion root tea is anything other than a detoxification remedy?"
I like what your saying here.. But I dont want to misinform people about detoxification.. It is not just juice some greens and eat your dandelions and a piece of fruit and be cured of all your ailments... Fruits are not a gentle cleaner, they are very very very powerful!! I seen pictures of peoples body pushing out tumors,yes tumors through their nose and mouth when on a raw fruit diet! I even experienced some scares myself! But always now it is merely detoxification an the next day younfill better, and the next day you have some detoxification scares, and then keep feeling better an better and time progresses on a raw fruit and vegetables diet... But it is not a walk in the park! Believe me...
"you won't ever find me posting googled blurbs about things i know little or nothing. and minds are meant to be open and flexible as that's how we learn! anyone who comes here to be the authority who is always 'right' is missing the point and the fun of learning and sharing in community."
I respect that Kalia, you sounds a lot like myself.. You have to walk the walk, to talk the talk.. Always have an open mind, you will being forever ignorant if you are arrogant..
"The problem (and it's not unique to this forum) is that anyone can claim to be a trained practitioner of some sort or to have had personal experience trying a remedy, and there's no way of knowing if that's the case"
Eric brought up a great point.. You have to understand this is a public forum and people would much rather have your money then have you healthy... You have separate the good guys,trying to help you, from the bad guys trying to hurt you... Anytime anyone is selling anything, youngsters research thoroughly before buying into anything.. Especially if its out of the blue, you never heard of it, and it just doesn't seem right... Your intuition is the key!
"If you're willing to take everyone and their testimonials at face value, that's your prerogative. Others will prefer to see documentation from reliable sources to back a claim, especially when it affects something as important as your health, or that of your loved ones."
For both, the good and bad.. Some people truly know something works but the big head honcho's in charge wants to surpress your information so you don't know anything besides buying their pharmaceuticals(kinda of like me an dr morse, the FDA,etc been trying to sue him for decades, he won and is still curing tons of people, and to be quite honest, one of my favorite healers).. For the good, if people are selling quack supplements, harmful "miracles" for your dis-ease they deserve being locked up, and held accountble... I kind of feel like the chemotherapy and radiation advocates should be Locked and charged with manslaughter... But if course the FDA would not even chip off that brick... They make thousand SPF dollars off every patients.. They don't care if you die.. They supposedly have " the best cure for cancer, and a load of other dis-eases".. But you have take this magic treatment and these miracle pills, sound fishy? I would rather stick with what I truly believe and know works;what mans been doing for centuries, eating fruits and vegetables...
"If you're willing to take everyone and their testimonials at face value, that's your prerogative. "
Eric, please do not belittle my intelligence. I have an extensive background in qualitative and quantitative research, and while I listen to everyone, I do my own lit searches and make up my own mind.
I know few people who earn a living as a herbal practitioners, but I also know many, carpenters among them, are dual careered folks...one career for income, and one for the love of it. Why put them down for doing what they have to do to support themselves and their family?
Joe, to get back to my husband's strict diet...his heart doctor calls is the teardown stage, but to me, it is actually a form of detox, to get him down to a blank slate. In the past, Hub would often go on a veggie/fruit juice diet, but that never got rid of the neuropathy in his feet or his chronic heartburn/gas/IBS.
This new diet is actually resolving these problems, which have plagued him for years, and that is incentive enough for him to stick with it.
At this point he is not allowed to eat any fruit whatsoever because his bloodwork shows that he has Metabolic Syndrome, or (my words) pre-diabetes. As he adds the forbidden foods back to his diet, the doctor will look at the bloodwork to see if they skew any of the readings, before incorporating a different food group. I have a feeling, however, that fruits will always be a restricted food for him.
As for my mom, her Assisted Living Facility does provide special diets for those who need them, but I think I would have an uphill battle getting her to accept the raw fruits and vegetable diet.
She is unable to comprehend the fine points of nutrition, and would not remember why she was being served raw veggies, while everyone around her has a tasty meal. No power on earth could make her eat them and she would return to her junk food snacking, so I either have to starve her or accept the facts of her life and do the best I can under the circumstances,
The first thing I would do is get a quality drinking water filter, as well as a shower filter.. That will do more than you think.. You would not believe what's in that water.. Maybe it's better we don't know... What exactly diet is your husband on? I personally think eliminating fruits is a joke, I think fruit is the main thing that would help him.. Diabetes has to do with your pancreas not functioning properly... Dr. Robert Morse heals diabetes in monthes, easy as cake.. Guess what they eat, fruit! He 40+ years of clinical observation, found out that fructose, a simple sugar does not require insulin to be carried to a cell, fructose can be absorbed via diffusion, it does not need insulin.. That's why he find it to be superior to glucose(vegetable sugar) for diabetes,etc... Many people are going to give me crap about not having studies and data.. But Dr.Robert Morse does cure all kinds of disease, and diabetes is one his least concern...
Now with your mother.. It's difficult with assisted living... They like to feed them what they like to feed them.. Kind of like the lunch ladies at school.. You have to have a doctors note so your kid can't drink milk, otherwise, bottens up! Look at these kids now a days.. Its not their fault.. You have to fight to have them feed healthy at "schools".. It gets me sick... Anyways, I would try and bring your mother a glass bottle of filtered water and have her drink that, instead of what they are giving her.. It sound crazy but... I would also make her fruit smoothies... Try to just use pure fruit with no milk or sugar,etc... How about a salad? Or sweet beet juice? Bring her bananas? It reminds me just like my elderly neighbor... He had a stroke a while ago, he just had a heartattack.. They got him in the nursing home, feeding him bread and drinking high fructose corn syrup apple juice, and chicken broth.. It drives me up the wall!!! Is it assisted livin or assured dying? I'm like come on people.. At lease squeeze in some fresh produce... Man, that drives me nuts! Same thing with the hospitals... Jan, I would serious get "detox miracle sourcebook by Robert morse", also watch his videos on YouTube... It might give you some light and hope... I have a deep itch to help people, especially if one was in a similar predicament I was in... Also - what is your husbands doctor advises him to eat? Give me an example of what he eats on a daily basis? What kind of medications is he on?
Best of luck, god bless,
If the practitioner treating Jan's husband is forbidding fruit in his diet because of metabolic syndrome, that recommendation is off-kilter.
Metabolic syndrome is a collection of risk factors for a number of diseases (i.e. heart disease, stroke and diabetes) that can be ameliorated in part by consuming a healthy diet rich in fruits and vegetables. I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, so here are confirmatory sources.
"In general, a diet that's low in saturated fats, trans fat, cholesterol, and salt and high in fruits and vegetables, lean protein, beans, low fat dairy, and whole grains has been shown to help people with high blood pressure and a higher risk of cardiovascular disease."
If people change their dietary habits and consume less fat and calories (and more fruit and vegetables) because of a belief that they are ridding their body of "toxins", they're incorrect about the human physiology involved, but still taking a positive step to improve their health. What concerns me about "detoxification" and "cleanses" is consumers being taken advantage of by marketers and unqualified practitioners who encourage people to waste time and money (and more seriously, ignore effective treatments for serious disease problems) on junk products.
No one is casting aspersions on your intelligence, Jan. Your own posts suggest you are open to consulting reliable sources and not depending on what anonymous strangers tell you on the Internet.
"If people change their dietary habits and consume less fat and calories (and more fruit and vegetables) because of a belief that they are ridding their body of "toxins", they're incorrect about the human physiology involved, but still taking a positive step to improve their health."
Eric, I can clearly tell you are talking from inexperience, and "research"... The most knowledgable research is what you do on yourself. You could read books, studies, and watch videos all day, but until you go out there and actually do it, that's when you really start to learn. Eric, I would like to see you just three monthes on a raw fruit/vegetable diet, your view points would change dramatically...
you're right raw nature (love your handle!) anyone can google up a statement to refute most anything. these are easy to spot especially when soooo predictable from having been done a gazillion times, but experience now, experience is gold.
that's why i love forums like this, lots of folks sharing their personal experiences adds greatly to the collective body of knowledge as well as my personal one. i especially love how others think to try and do things that never occur to me but are simply genius! we learn from our fails equally, its all good.
thanks to this community for your generousity!
jan, i respect the way you so your own research of other's ideas presented here, the way its supposed to be, good for you. healthy skepticism is so necessary in this age of info bombardment : )
you mention your husband has metabolic syndrome, this is specifically the reason i suggested chromium, its shown to be very helpful for these folks.
food we eat is broken down by the body into a simple sugar called glucose; after a meal blood glucose levels rise as the body processes that meal. the body then works to move this glucose into all cells of the body so it can be used to make proteins, energy or whatever it needs.
chromium is the key that fits into insulin receptors (locks) on cell surfaces, it opens the 'cell door' so nutrients and glucose circulating in the blood stream can flow in and be used by the cell to produce energy or whatever else the body needs. a deficiency of chromium means this door can't open leading the body to believe it needs to produce more insulin to force this to happen. both blood sugar and blood levels of insulin continue to rise to no avail. essentially the person becomes both hyperglycemic and hyperinsulinemic while in essense starving to death cuz the nutrients consumed in food are not available for use.
high levels of circulating glucose and insulin damage tissues especially nerve tissues in the periphery and eyes, giving rise to the characteristic neuropathy and retinopathy seen in long term diabetics.
folks with metabolic syndrome are encouraged to eat less fruit and even then consume fruit that is lower on the glycemic index to reduce the demand on their pancreas to produce lots of insulin to deal with the sugars in the fruit. the pancreas of these folks is often exhausted to begin with from working so hard to check blood sugar within normal ranges.
for complete details (maybe more than you want!) check out the work of medical herbalist/nutritionist paul berner on insulin resistance=metabolic syndrome. he's considered something of an expert on this topic and puts all the various research pieces from various scientists together to create a big but detailed pic of this dis-ease process and a full on holistic protocol for clients that has proven in clinical studies to be very effective. he has multiple sites....medherb is one on which you can probably most easily access this information.
i can see you are already doing a lot of things very right, keep up the good work and best wishes to you both, kali
medical herbalist/nutritionist paul berGner.
sorry about the misspelling : )
Joe, I can tell you have a missionary spirtit. My screed about my husband's extreme diet was in my second or third post above.
Eric, This health quest has been a long haul. He tried and discarded numerous RX for numerous ailments, and put himself on many strict fruits and vegetable diets.
We switched to whole grains, then to Ezekial bread. Then we went gluten free, and now we are grain free...well, he is, but I'm not. In the process, he overcame what had manifested as gout and edema, but the neuropathy in his feet grew worse, and he had extended periods of heart burn, which nothing, natural or otheriwise, would quell.
Anyway, the doctor had us raise the head of the bed six inches, and either that, and or, the new diet has (knock on wood) taken care of those issues.
Kalia, he always responded well to the OTC products with chromium picolinate in them. He had more energy, and he tried enough products that I was sure it was the one common element that was doing it.
Now that we have a diagnosis seems to the root cause of his body's varied manifested cries for health, I will read Paul Berner's site with great interest!
Thank you, all for your time.
"...controversy exists as to whether dietary supplementation with chromium should be routinely recommended in subjects without documented deficiencies. Over the recent past, several well-designed clinical trials have provided evidence in favor of and against a beneficial effect of chromium. It appears that across all subject phenotypes (eg, lean and obese, insulin sensitive and insulin resistant), a consistent significant and beneficial effect of chromium may not be observed. Specifically, recent data fail to demonstrate significant improvement in carbohydrate metabolism in individuals with metabolic syndrome, impaired glucose tolerance, or consistently in individuals with type 2 diabetes"
Note: people considered "experts" in a medical field generally have published research on the topic. I see no publications by Paul Berner listed in the Pub Med database.
"The chromium found in foods will not hurt you. But taking excessive chromium supplements can lead to stomach problems and low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Too much chromium from supplements can also damage the liver, kidneys, and nerves, and it may cause irregular heart rhythm."
Thank you, Eric. We should all be aware of the 'too much of a good' thing syndrome" when it comes to vitamins and minerals.
I've also learned that the use of "may" in research conclusions, is a flat meaning "truthfully, we don't know, yet"
I saw it used liberally n the part of the paragraph you quoted and in the sentence left out: "However, patient selection may be an important factor in determining clinical response, as it was concluded that a clinical response to chromium (ie, decreased glucose and improved insulin sensitivity) may be more likely in insulin-resistant individuals with type 2 diabetes who have more elevated fasting glucose and hemoglobin A(1c) levels."
Note how they used 'may' to connect two ideas to make it seem as though they were a qualified one.
The 2004 LSU metastudy of 86 research papers that I've linked below has this to say regarding the safety of use:
SAFETY OF CHROMIUM
Most of the concerns regarding the long-term safety of chromium supplementation arise from results of several cell culture studies using supraphysiological doses that suggested that chromium, particularly in the form of CrP, may increase DNA damage. However, there is currently no evidence that chromium increases DNA damage in vivo. There have also been isolated reports (83) of serious adverse events, including kidney failure, associated with CrP treatment, but the relationship of chromium to these events is not clear. Recent reviews of the safety of CrP by the Institute of Medicine (84) and by Berner et al. (85) have concluded that CrP is safe. Results from controlled clinical trials (86) have shown that treatment with chromium at doses up to 1,000 μg/day and for periods as long as 64 months does not result in any toxic effects.
Here is a link that might be useful: Role of Chromium in Human Health
Eric, more on safety and dosage, from
Chromium in metabolic and cardiovascular disease.
Hummel M, Standl E, Schnell O. Diabetes Research Institute & Academical Hospital Munich-Schwabing, Munich, Germany. Michael.Hummel@lrz.uni-muenchen.de
However, supplementation with chromium picolinate, a stable and highly bioavailable form of chromium, has been shown to reduce insulin resistance and to help reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. Since chromium supplementation is a safe treatment, further research is necessary to resolve the confounding data. The existing data suggest to concentrate future studies on certain forms as chromium picolinate and doses as at least 200 mcg per day.
I like that they acknowledge "confounding data." All of us must make our way carefully through these topics, which means seeing what we don't want to see, as well as what we do want to see, acknowleging the whole of it, knowing the risks, and making careful decisions.
Can we put this Chromium topic to bed now?
I think I will open a new one to give you guys something else to fight over.
My take from the research to date is: there is no good evidence that chromium supplementation decreases cardiovascular or diabetes risks and may have some benefit in those diagnosed with diabetes, although evidence is conflicting.
Given that artificial supplements also may pose risks, it makes sense to instead consume foods (and herbs) that are high in chromium if one is concerned about a possible (but unlikely) chromium deficiency.
About Paul BerGner (just noticed the corrected spelling), supposed diabetes expert: his resume shows that he is a naturopath who among other things teaches homeopathy (the pseudoscience which claims water has a "memory" of things that used to be dissolved in it). A check of PubMed under that name shows no published research relating to diabetes. So one might want to carefully investigate his purported "expert" advice.
I've always followed a very simple and self-imposed belief that I've subscribed to when working within the natural health field: If a substance isn't actually feeding the body in order for it to inherently heal itself, then I won't use it. In other words, if the remedy isn't a living, organic form of nutrient, then I won't incorporate into my regimen.
A little further explanation: The plant kingdom was created to take non-living nutrients from the mineral kingdom and transform them into the plant as a living, organic form of nutrition. Now it's in a form that can be utilized by the animal kingdom, us. But we can't buck the system by going right to the mineral kingdom for our nutrients. If we could, we could just eat dirt and survive.
I'll let you all draw your own conclusions about the point I'm trying to make here.
Thank you, Eric. Your positions on Chromium supplements and Paul B. are duly noted.
I'm curious...are you a medical practitioner?
The reason I ask is because I have found strong opposition to homeopathy in many hard-core M.D.s,( though not in the batch I work with now.) I understand that they are frustrated at the lack of controlled research. It goes against everything they have been taught.
I, and many folks I know use homeopathic remedies for many conditions, Some might claim that we all feel placebo effects, but statistically speaking, sugar pill placebos only work 50% of the time. Conservatively, I would say that at least 75% of us who use these remedies find them effective.
I could go on with anecdotal examples, but I am not trying to change your mind, or start an argument. IMHO, which does not have to be yours, I feel that it is always worth giving a homeopathic remedy a try before resorting to expensive medications, which may have harmful side effects, or unwanted drug interactions. As the Hippocratic oath states, FIRST do no harm.
Forgive me if this is a little off topic, but here is something to do with sugar, cancer and diabetes...
MORE SUGAR CRAP!!!
This type of fallacy is dangerous!
Dr. Morse's OPPOSING OPINION
A Naturopathic Perspective
of the recent article posted on the Hippocrates Health Institute e-Newsletter
High Sugar Levels Increase Cancer and Mortality Risk
Elevated blood sugar levels and diabetes are risk factors for developing several types of cancer and mortality, according to researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Yonsei University in Seoul, Korea. The researchers followed over 1.2 million Koreans for 10 years, tracking new cancer cases and following the death rate caused by this disease. For those without diabetes, cancer risk increased fasting blood sugar level. The study is published in the January 12, 2005 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).
"Although past research has shown that having diabetes or an elevated glucose level increases cancer risk, the evidence has been mixed and many of the studies to date were relatively small," said Jonathan M. Samet, MD, MS, co-author of the study and the Bloomberg School of Public Health Jacob I and Irene B. Fabrikant Professor of Health, Risk and Society and chair of the Department of Epidemiology.
The researchers carried out a 10-year study of 1,298,385 Korean men and women, aged 30 to 95 years. The study participants were members of the National Health Insurance Corp., which provides health insurance to government employees, teachers and their dependents. The participants provided information on their lifestyles and medical histories. Fasting blood samples were taken at biennial medical examinations.
The risk of developing cancer was comparable to the risk of dying from cancer. The group with the highest fasting glucose levels (greater than 140 mg/dL) had higher death rates from all cancers combined. In men, the strongest associations were for pancreatic cancer; significant associations were also found in men for cancers of the esophagus, liver colon/rectum. In women, the strongest links were to cancers of the liver and cervix.
The authors note that the study participants were substantially leaner than the typical Western population. They concluded that glucose intolerance may be one way that obesity increases cancer risk and that the rising obesity rates may increase future cancer rates.
"This study provides more information on glucose intolerance, an emerging cause of cancer. It points to increased cancer risk as another adverse consequence of rising obesity around the world," concluded, Sun Ha Jee, PhD, MHS, lead author of the study and an adjunct assistant professor in the Bloomberg School of Public Health's Department of Epidemiology and an assistant professor of Epidemiology and Cisease Control at Yonsei University.
The study authors were supported in part by grants from the National Cancer Institute.
The above article in the Hippocrates Health Institute's e-newsletter shows the continued stupidity and narrow-mindedness that we see surrounding sugars. Please review my article on the difference between complex sugars and simple sugars, so you have somewhat of an understanding in relationship to these sugars. Many clients come to me after spending a week or two at Hippocrates telling me that they feel worse than before and are craving fruits, and for some the story was worse. You cannot starve the body for energy in a state of dis-ease! In highly depleted cases, even vegetables can cause too much energy loss through extensive digestion.
Now let's look at science in regards to cellular physiology and its relationship to the above article. First, your cells are very much like your car engine or any other machine that has moving parts. Energy is the main factor in function and mobility in this universe. Energy is the intelligence of creation. Chemistry is simply vibrational frequencies of energy. With this understood, the most popular source of energy on this planet is carbon and oxygen. These are the two main constituents of the air you breathe, besides nitrogen. Carbon and oxygen keep the air predominantly alkaline as well as providing a source of energy to all life.
We use the chemistry of carbon and oxygen to provide fuel to run most engines at this time. Even crystal energy has carbon in its matrix. In most engines we combine oxygen (carburetor) with carbon (gasoline) to create energy; then we funnel the acid wastes out of the exhaust (lymphatic system).
Your physical body requires the same process. Oxygen and carbon (sugars, which are carbohydrates) combine at the cellular level to create ATP (Adrenison Triphosphate) ATP is cellular energy.
Without sugar (carbon) your cells will die. The same is said about oxygen. Sugar is the main need of a cell in it's functional ability, without which it will begin to die and mutate. This then sets up an Immune Response to the cell (s). Your body does not burn amino acids (proteins) for energy, nor fats. They can be broken down into glucose for this purpose, but at great cost to the health of the individual. Burning a protein for energy is like using the walls of your house to burn in your fireplace.
Now with these facts in mind, this article is true and probably very factual. What does it mean when you're fasting blood glucose level is high? This is an indicator that either your pancreas is not supplying enough insulin to "carry" glucose through the cell wall or your adrenal glands are not controlling sugar metabolism properly. (Always remember your Adrenal Glands control sugar metabolism!!!)
Now glucose, even being a simple sugar and found in vegetables, requires insulin to "carry" it into a cell. This is very important to note, as fructose is also a simple sugar, but much more "electrically alive." Fructose does not require insulin to be "carried" through a cell wall, it is merely pulled in by diffusion.
This is ideal for diabetics or anyone with adrenal gland problems (most cancers) as fructose will "feed" the cell and allow ATP to be formed. If you are having insulin or adrenal problems and you starve your body for sugars, you are starving all your cells. Your body's health depends upon the health of its cells! A cancer cell is an "acid damaged" cell or a "starved" cell which mutates as acids continue to break it down. Trying to "starve" or kill cancer cells is a dangerous practice.
Most diabetics have kidney weakness as the adrenal glands sit on top of them and the adrenal glands are always somewhat involved in all diabetics, as they control sugar metabolism. Diabetics are very vulnerable to cancer as weak kidneys obstruct the proper flow and cleansing of one's lymphatic (sewer) system, which deals mostly with cellular and parasitic wastes (acids). The lymphatic system is one's main immune system. The system that cleans you.
If you take a diabetic who has cancer and only feed them concentrated greens (which is very high in glucose), especially wheat grass juice, it can cause a lot of problems for them, in that they already have glucose problems in the first place. Excessive glucose without metabolism can cause excess fungal growth and high carbonic acid levels to build up in the body. With the philosophy of the Hippocrates, due to the way they interpret this study, you would have to use high protein diets (medical thinking) for these clients - and yet a high protein diet with cancer is deadly! If anything, this type of diet causes cancer in humans.
It is "off point" to think that one must "kill" or starve a cancer cell. Yes, sugar feeds all cells even cancer cells this is off point though in that to starve a cancer cell you will affect all your cells. This same philosophy is used in chemotherapy and in the medical community. This is ridiculous in that if you damage or weaken your other cells, they will then become your new A-typical or cancer cells. The point of cancer is your sewer system - the Lymphatic System. It is your "sewer system" which removes and neutralizes cellular wastes (acids) and damaged cells. It's the "acids" that can kill you. By the way, the pH of chemotherapy is equivalent to battery acid!
Hippocrates Institute, in my opinion, is quite off base and can hurt people who have sugar metabolism problems where fruit would help them tremendously. All of our diabetics get fruit. Diabetes is one of the easiest conditions to cure! To summarize: those who have higher fasting glucose levels are starving their cells for essential carbon, which is vital in keeping a cell healthy and alive. Fruits would be very advisable in these cases, as fruit sugars can be used by cells where pancreatic and adrenal function can block glucose (vegetable sugar) entry. You might initially have some blood glucose "loading" but this will disappear and your cells will be getting energy and therefore, the atrophy will stop.
Remember also that fruits are much more electrical (energetic) to one's body and are much higher in antioxidants and astringents than vegetables, which makes them ideal in cancer cases where one must understand the lymphatic system.
Now about sugars and fungus....First understand the role of fungi, bacterium and the like....These are nature's janitors. The fungal family is a "fermented sugar" family. They grow in or on fermented foods, e.g. breads, cheeses and "overly ripe" fruit, etc. They only grow on fruit when fruit is on its way out (starting to rot). Fruits will clean one's lymphatic system and "stir up the pot," so to speak but won't feed them any more than glucose. Stop complex sugars (starch), which gives the body too much sugar, which the body can't use! This will create fat and call up the fungal family to help eliminate the excess as well as creating excessive carbonic acid; on top of this, the fungi family will create uric acid!
An herbal fungal kill, along with tissue cleansing will correct this issue.
With all of the above understood, one must learn to clean out, rebuild and regenerate the body (cells). If you have a pancreatic and/or adrenal gland weakness, fix it! The problem with most health care practitioners is that they don't know how to fix and rebuild the problem; few even know why cells fail!
Do yourself a favor and don't fall into the trap and illusion of those who do not know science and misinterpret these types of studies to fit their own misguided belief systems. The homosapian is a frugivore. Fruits are the gifts of the plant kingdom to man. Herbivores eat plants and are designed much differently than we are. (See my book: "The Detox Miracle Sourcebook.") Our clinics' clients have a 90% or better "cure rate" in those that have all types of cancer who go on our health programs. We use a lot of fruits in our health programs, especially grapes. Our cancer clients who used a high amount of grapes eliminated their cancers in as little as 45 days. Most in as little as 2 to 3 months.
Eat plenty of fruits, use herbs to kill any fungal activity in your body and fix the adrenal glands (sugar metabolism). And stay away from "starches" (complex sugars). This is too much sugar for man, and sugar breaks down into Carbonic Acid! The missing link is our great friends = the Botanicals! Never fear nature, understand it!
A tragic myth: The truth about sugars
As the engine in your car needs a carbon-based fuel to run, so does your physical body. Of the main constitutients, your body needs to function amino acids, fatty acids, and sugars are primary. However, it is sugar mixed with oxygen that your body requires to run the machine. To understand sugars better, simple definitions of sugars are necessary.
A single or simple sugar, e.g., glucose, fructose, or galactos, also known as carbohydrates.
Poly or Disaccharides:
Starch or complex sugars consisting of several glucose/fructose bonds depending upon the type of starch or carbohydrate.
Your body uses digestion to separate the simple from the complex. In other words, your body can't use proteins, it can only use amino acids. So the body must break down a complex amino acid structure (called a protein) into amino acids; fats to fatty acids; and starch or complex sugars to simple sugars. With this factual information, it should start to become evident that sugars are a big factor in health! Your body mixes glucose or fructose with oxygen to achieve cellular energy known as ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Without ATP a cell will weaken and become attacked (mainly by parasites), or bonded with a virus, or antigen.
You must understand your body does not use proteins for energy. It is only the adrenaline or epinephrine in meat that is energetic. This is a problem in that your adrenal glands are supposed to supply your body with adrenaline, when needed, for nerve function.
When you consume complex sugars, as in anything complex, your body now has to deal with the overload of simple sugars and now has to store them as fat, excrete what it can, and use the fungal family to help it rid itself of all the unneeded sugar (since sugars are mostly carbon bonds that are broken down into carbonic acid.) Now we are back to excessive acidosis.
The same is true with proteins and fats. A lot of man's toxemia comes from excess proteins, fats, and sugars, which are broken down into acids, stored and/or parasitically acted upon. With a stagnant lymphatic system, this creates: systemic acidosis, body odors, culturing of parasites (bacterium, fungi, protozoa's, etc.) all of which starts the inflammatory (immune) response leading to the atrophy of the body.
Fruit (sugars) and Candida (fungus):
It is said, "Sugars feed Candida". I hope with the above understanding you can see through this myth! If you put out a piece of cheese, a slice of bread, and some grapes or a ripe banana on the counter in your kitchen, which one is going to grow mold (fungus) on it first? It will be a race between the bread and cheese. The fruit will only grow mold as it begins to ferment, since the cheese and bread are already fermented.
Remember: Nature uses the parasitic kingdom to clean and eliminate that which is not needed, damaged, or in someway loses its ability to support life in a healthy way. Fermentation and putrefaction are the processes of decay, or breakdown, which require parasitic action. Healthy cells and lymph do not require parasitic action. Of course this includes the cells in your body. With this understanding, what type of sugar could feed Candida (yeast, fungus, molds, warts, etc.)? That's right... STARCHES and EXCESS COMPLEX SUGARS!
SUGARS (FRUIT) AND CANCER:
"Sugars feeds cancer" is another tremendous myth. To claim sugars feed cancer is to deny what decades of science has proven. To starve the body for a sugar is to starve the cell of its energy. This causes cancer. Starvation, acidosis, and ketosis damage cells. A damaged cell is on its walk down the road to A-typical and becoming a cancer cell. This is also true of proteins and refined fats or too many supplemented fatty acids.
Remember: The body is simplistic. More is not better. Less is often times better e.g., fasting of all types, under-eating, etc. Acids feed cancer as acids create inflammation and the parasite response to the above. As previously stated, glucose and fructose are both simple sugars. To say a fruit feeds cancer is also saying vegetables feed cancer. This is all stupid thinking! Even the American Cancer Society recommends a high fruit and vegetable diet!
There are many properties that make fruit superior to vegetables. Fruits are higher in antioxidants and astringents and will move your lymphatic system far better than vegetables. This is why one sees a lymphatic response when fruit is consumed. That is what you want! Fruits, also being a simple sugar, are superior for diabetics, pancreatitis, hepatitis, and all other gastric and intestinal conditions. Fructose does not require insulin or extensive digestive enzymes. Fruits' magnetic (electrical) energy is the highest of all foods, making them superior brain and nerve foods. They will bring energy to the body where most other foods take it away. NEVER FEAR THE USE OF FRUITS! I cleaned up a lymphoma case in France once in 45-days on grapes, a stomach cancer case in 56-days, the list goes on and on...
Detoxification and Fruits:
Superior deep-tissue detoxification can only take place with fruits. Vegetables, because of their lower energetic, antioxidant and astringent properties, and their complex cellulose structures will only detoxify you so far, and then you will reach a plateau. I see this all the time in various detox and health retreat centers around the country. I have a lot of clients who have tried these "detox centers" and then call me out of desperation. They are always craving fruits! Add fruit and botanicals to the mix and you will have a superior way to win over the cancer you created.
Fruits to the rescue always!
Dr. Robert Morse
Q&A from our Readers
I'm confused regarding the info on your webpage: "It is said, "Sugars feed Candida". I hope with the above understanding you can see through this myth!"
But then you say "With this understanding, what type of sugar could feed Candida (yeast, fungus, molds, warts, etc.)? That's right... STARCHES and EXCESS COMPLEX SUGARS!"
So, I don't get it. Is it just COMPLEX sugars or carbs that feed cabdida, but something like honey or sugar is okay?
THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Thank you for the important question. The fungi family is a fermentation family. They are called into action when fermentation through poor digestion or food combination takes place. Also when starches (which are complex (poly) sugars) are consumed and one has weak adrenal glands, where low cortisol levels affect sugar metabolism.
This gives the body too much sugar causing more fermentation and carbonic acid. The consumption of additional fermented foods on top of this does not help. Make no mistake; the fungi families are sugar consumers at one level or another. If you go from a high starch, cheeses, and/or beer lifestyle to a low sugar fruit and vegetable diet, all the billions of the extra fungi (yeasts, moles, warts, etc.) are still hungry consuming your badly needed cellular sugars. This causes chronic fatigue, cloudy awareness, dizziness, etc., etc., etc.
While I was at a retreat at the hippocrates health institute, we were told that At a labratory in Sweden they had introduced apple in a cancerous tumor and as a result of this introduction they tumor grew alot bigger. Subsequent to this test they came to the conclusion that fruits should be forbidden for any one who has cancer , candida or other lifethreatening diseases. it is interesting and confusing at the same time that other health practitioners have had tremendous success with the introduction of fruits which has enabled people win their battle over such deadly diseases as cancer. I just wished there were some case studies so that we could proceed with making our choices with more confiednce and certainty. I would greatly appreciate your feed back on this issue.
Thank you so much for your comments. You will be freed from this stress if you think this out and look to nature and clinical success as opposed to the ridiculous "studies" that make for ridiculous hypothesis.
Let's look at "the sugar issue" as it relates to health. First, read my article on sugars. Fructose and glucose are the essential sugars your cells require. Yes, of course sugar feeds cells. That's its job. We burn or use carbon for fuel on this planet - from crystals to gasoline - to sugars. All cells, including cancer cells, require simple sugars to create ATP; a cells stored and used energy. To starve cancer cells of sugar is to starve the rest of your body for sugars. This is life threatening! A cancer cell has nothing to do with sugars - only the by-products of sugars (carbonic acid). A cancer cell is a damaged cell by acids that ones lymphatic system (immune) cannot eliminate properly. Stagnation and poor elimination of lymphatic waste by ones body starts acid accumulation.
In other words:
An acid diet creates acidosis
Acidosis is the main reason behind inflammation
Acids damage and mutate cells
Your lymphatic (sewer) system is your main immune system that helps keep your cells acidic wastes from accumulating in and around cells.
Acid-forming diets inflame the colon, kidneys, and thyroid (skin) thus, reducing their ability to filter ones lymphatic system, including the lymph nodes (septic tanks)
As ones lymphatic system backs up, so do cellular, systemic and parasitic wastes.
Thus, acidosis/inflammation builds up in many tissues of the body, head to toe. Lymph nodes swell, pimples, boils, abscesses and tumors are formed, etc.
In time, normal cells move to A-typical then to cancer
To cure is to reverse how you created it. Add a little "magic" from our little friends...the Herbs!
Foods rich in astringent and anti-oxidants are high on the list in cancer cases. Fruits fit this need to a tee! Fructose is a much higher vibrational sugar requiring no cellular loss of energy in its utilization.
A tumor can grow just from rehydration, however nutrition is not the focus in cancer cases. Eating foods your body is designed to eat (see my Detox Miracle Sourcebok) goes without saying. In other words, a high fruit diet and a green leafy diet is the focus. The main focus in cancer is ones sewer (lymphatic) system, including its eliminative organs. Homosapians are Fruigavores - not Herbivores or Omnivores. With this understanding, your nutritional and energetic needs are met. Through the past 35-years, our approach stands on it's own. At least 85% of those that used our health programs, who had cancer, have no more!
Love and Blessings,
You can cure anything, not every body!
Above is an excerpt from Dr.Morse herbal health website..
Here is a link below, of his website...
Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Morse Herbal Health Club
I hear what you are saying, HD, and I honor the care with which you approach your profession. The greatest gift any healer can have is the gift of listening, to the client, to the test results, and to the inner voice.
Were I a practitioner, I would incorporate many different supplements and modalities into my practice, but that's just my nature.
Just an FYI I only have so much time to spend on line and I NEVER read cut and pasted 'walls of text' in a discussion forum. To paraphrase what I said to Eric, your opinions on Dr. Morse's work have been duly noted.
Actually, it's not that physicians are frustrated by the lack of controlled trials to evaluate homeopathy - there have been plenty of such trials, and the properly conducted ones overwhelmingly show no effect of homeopathy beyond placebo. For instance:
"The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (generally considered to be the most reliable source of evidence) was searched in January 2010...Cochrane reviews with the term "homeopathy" in the title, abstract or keywords were considered. Six articles met the inclusion criteria.The reviews covered the following conditions: cancer, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, asthma, dementia, influenza and induction of labour.
The findings of currently available Cochrane reviews of studies of homeopathy do not show that homeopathic medicines have effects beyond placebo."I
In fact, it seems homeopathy has been failing clinical trials since as far back as 1835.
You can find scattered studies (widely trumpeted by homeopaths) that suggest an effect beyond placebo in certain cases, but the overwhelming evidence is against it - as you'd expect for drugs that are so highly diluted that not a single molecule of the supposed "active substance" remain in them.
Awhile back there was a thread in this forum discussing sales of homeopathic herbal products, and asking herbalists/herb users whether linkage in public perception between herbalism and homeopathy was a good thing. There was considerable difference of opinion, but a number of pro-herbalism posters evidently did not appreciate encroachment on the field by homeopathic quackery. One distinguished herbalist, the late Varro Tyler, considered homeopathy to be among the false tenets held by people believing in paraherbalism:
"Phytochemical researcher Varro Eugene Tyler described paraherbalism as "faulty or inferior herbalism based on pseudoscience", using scientific terminology but lacking scientific evidence for safety and efficacy. Tyler listed ten fallacies that distinguished herbalism from paraherbalism, including claims that there is a conspiracy to suppress safe and effective herbs, herbs can not cause harm, that whole herbs are more effective than molecules isolated from the plants, herbs are superior to drugs, the doctrine of signatures (the belief that the shape of the plant indicates its function) is valid, dilution of substances increases their potency (a doctrine of the pseudoscience of homeopathy), astrological alignments are significant, animal testing is not appropriate to indicate human effects, anecdotal evidence is an effective means of proving a substance works and herbs were created by God to cure disease."
This post was edited by eric_oh on Wed, Apr 10, 13 at 18:22
Joe - I'm glad to see that Robert Morse rejects the common refrain we hear from alt med proponents about how "sugar feeds cancer" and that low sugar/no sugar diets that are supposed to "starve cancer cells" are a fallacy.
While he's on target there, I'm sorry to see he's fallen for other myths - about "detoxification", the role of the lymphatic system, and one of the most common misunderstandings - that we are in danger of "acidosis" and that common foods promote this. If Morse had taken a basic human physiology course he would have learned about the body's homeostatic processes that tightly regulate body pH (acidity) within a very narrow range. You can't alter this by dietary changes - a good thing, since if you could, metabolic reactions would be severely impaired or stop entirely. People with significant changes in body pH are typically extremely ill or near death due to diseases that affect the lungs or kidneys (organs with a major role in pH regulation) or suffering from acute poisoning. A good overview can be found here.
I call Homeopaths "Herbalist Wanna-Be's." My observations have not been favorable compared to good ol' fashioned herbalism.
Some of their practices are not necessarily founded on natural principles.
Well, they work for me and mine, and that's all I need to know.
Please take the time to read a few paragraphs from the link below... Hopefully it will clear a few things up...
Here is a link that might be useful: Lymphatic System
I'm just saying that there is always a better way. Now, I don't mean to ask a trick question. Just bare with me.
for instance, how long does it take for a naturopath to be successful at getting someone well of influenza * using naturopathic remedies?
* Influensa being when a person has fever, aches and chills so bad that their hair "hurts."
Well, that's just a fabulous explanation of the lymphatic system by Morse, with high entertainment value but nothing else to recommend it.
Let's see - if lymphatics are the "sewer system" of the body, and blood is the "kitchen", Morse's brain is a disused basement full of musty old ideas that were recognized as ludicrous centuries ago. He badly needs to take that basic course in human physiology.
And if he actually is curing lymphoma with fruit and obtaining other miracle cures, he needs to publish his research so that others can benefit (odds of this happening are of course nil).
Here is a link that might be useful: Basics of lymphatic and immune system function
Wake up man! He has been sharing his information! He has hundreds, if not thousands of videos on YouTube! He can reach much more people via YouTube than he could in a lab or anywhere else for that matter.. Watch this short, 10 minute video...
Here is a link that might be useful: Tissue, Bone, Nerve regeneration Dr.Robert Morse
"He has been sharing his information!"
Posting YouTube videos doesn't cut it. If he was serious about convincing people of his "cures", he'd submit research for peer review, which if it passed muster would result in widespread use of his techniques by other practitioners.
His not being willing to do this suggests that his nonsensical view of human physiology is matched by nonexistent success in treating serious disease.
Maybe he does have some peer review studies/research.. But, I highly doubt it because the FDA has TRIED sueing him many times! They do NOT want this information out to the public! And the definently do NOT want to be the ones publishing it! It a money game, don't you get it? Did you even watch the video? The botten line is many people, whether you believe it or not, are curing all kinds of dis-eases on a raw fruit/vege and herb diet.. Do you think Dr.Morse is wasting his time, making thousands of videos for nothing? He really doesn't have to much money to gain.. After all, he's only advocating fruits, vegetables, and herbs!
There are an awful lot of researchers/practitioners who've succeeded in publishing research (including a boatload of studies on herbs and other alt med remedies) without running afoul of the FDA. When the FDA warns someone (for example, for promoting a drug without going through the approval process), it very seldom involves anything more than a warning letter. The agency is promoted as a dread bogeyman when its enforcement efforts are largely toothless.
Instead of Morse being a victim of an undocumented Big Pharma conspiracy*, I see him (and other practitioners who don't bother to cite valid evidence, instead making undocumented claims and telling anecdotes) as being the alt med practitioner equivalent of "trust me, I'm a doctor". We don't let M.D.s get away with that - why should we allow naturopaths to do it?
*this is one of the tenets of paraherbalism, as described in this link. And sorry, it looks very much like this is about money - Morse's ability to make it, unless he has a second career we haven't heard about.
**is there a reason why you use the term "dis-ease" instead of just saying disease?
I see him (and other practitioners who don't bother to cite valid evidence, instead making undocumented claims and telling anecdotes) as being the alt med practitioner equivalent of "trust me, I'm a doctor". We don't let M.D.s get away with that - why should we allow naturopaths to do it?"
Valid evidence? Eric, this man been healing people for more than 40 years! What more evidence is there! Screw reading pages of ink, I would much rather see real world clinical experience over anything! Isn't the most valid evidence what he ACTUALLY does in his clinic, instead of some studies?
As far as trusting allopathic medical doctors.. We always trust them! The majority of us don't think twice about taking the "medicine" they give us.. We just assume they are the doctor, they know best.. Let's go take some painkillers and some chemo,. It'll be all good... How many people die from allopathic medicine? How many people die from naturopaths?
If you think doctor Morse is for the money, your something else, you obviously don't know anything about him... I think that's the problem, you probably didn't even watch a dozen of his videos.. if he is so wealthy and only cares about money. Why the hell does he spend his life making free videos for the public? He makes next to nothing off of, you don't even have to give him any money, and he tells you basically everything you need to know... It's not about the money, it's about helping people! If he was such a quack, People dying who go to him on a last whim would be very upset.. I haven't heard any stories about people dying in his clinic, nor have I heard any bad stories in general about him.. If he was a quack, every person who walks in his doors would wave a red flag and make people aware of this dangerous scam artist! Everyone would know if he was a scam by know! Contrary, everyone i heard from who walked out his clinic, was doing much much better then they were when they walked in....
"this man been healing people for more than 40 years!... I would much rather see real world clinical experience over anything!"
"Real world clinical experience" has been cited by people hawking various remedies for centuries. You'll find believers in everything from urine drinking to Hulda Clark's zap-the-parasites-with-my-electrical-device-and-cure-cancer*, who eagerly accept anecdotes of miraculous results. If any or all of these remedies really worked, you'd expect them to have caught on and cancer and other serious diseases to be eliminated, only it hasn't happened. Meantime, users of miracle cures continue to go without proper care and die of treatable diseases in the vain hope that they've discovered effective and safe alternatives to "allopathic" medicine.
How exactly do you know just what goes on in Morse's clinic, how his patients do and what he charges them? Where is all this documented?
"As far as trusting allopathic medical doctors.. We always trust them! The majority of us don't think twice about taking the "medicine" they give us."
I do. And these days many if not most people read up on drugs and treatments, ask questions and frequent forums where others having the same condition share information. Docs who don't acknowledge these changes don't last long. If Morse just says "trust me, and read these testimonials" he's probably not attracting many knowledgeable health care consumers.
*Hulda died of cancer, despite claiming that she had "the cure for all cancers".
Your zeal for your beliefs is, in some ways, commendable. But from what you've told us, this Morse is more involved in a market program than actual documented cases. By the way, documented cases are different from testimonies.
I've noticed that many of the things with which you credit Morse has many loopholes. So, on this point I have to agree with Eric's skepticism.
Just be careful.
i personally witnessed one apis homeopathic pellet save my friend's life who'd gone into anaphylactic shock from accidentally consuming a small piece of cilantro to which she was deadly allergic. her reaction to the cilantro was instant, she grabbed her throat as it swelled shut, in less than 60 seconds she couldn't breathe and was blue in the face. a homeopathist who happened to be in our group slipped her a pellet and she began coughing immediately which confirmed her airway had opened. by the time emt's got to the scene, approx 3-5 minutes later, she was a normal pink color and breathing normally. everyone on hand wanted her to be checked out so she went to the hospital in the ambulance and was pronounced free and clear by doctors there. i'd never seen anything like that, it was amazing. i was neutral on homeopathy before that day, i take it more seriously now.
beware of putting down something you know little or nothing about, when it turns out to be something after all makes you look like a silly fool.
"Instant" airway closure on exposure to a supposed allergen with no other evidence of anaphylaxis, with airway clearing upon coughing, sounds like the person was choking on food but spontaneously cleared the blockage.
Next time that happens the homeopath would be better advised to apply the Heimlich maneuver rather than slipping the person a magic homeopathy pellet.
If I had the money, I would give you a first class ticket to go observe Robert Morse and his clinic. But I don't, so stay skeptical. It's much better to be cautious, then fall gullible for harmful and expensive quacks. I just wish l could prove to you guys he's not a quack, and he really does do good.. But if i can't dig up anything on the Internet,besides testimonials and his hundreds of videos, the only way to prove it is to go to his clinic.. Until then, I'm wasting my time.
This post was edited by Raw_Nature on Fri, Apr 12, 13 at 19:43
Did all of you know that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?
Postscript on dealing with genuine anaphylactic reactions:
As someone who years ago twice wound up in emergency rooms due to severe reactions to wasp stings (thankfully no longer a problem), I know firsthand as well as from training that anaphylaxis poses serious risks.
In the event of onset of an anaphylactic reaction (symptoms include but are not limited to itching, hives, wheezing, nausea and dizziness), an immediate trip to the emergency room is mandatory (at-risk people should talk to their physician about carrying an epi-pen to self-inject when symptoms hit, but immediate professional medical care is also necessary. An attack does not end with everything suddenly returning to normal, no matter what drug is administered.
Most importantly, a person at risk of anaphylaxis who thinks that a homeopathic drug is adequate treatment could be headed for a fatal outcome.
This post was edited by eric_oh on Fri, Apr 12, 13 at 19:52
I believe Kali could give more credibility to her experience if she could tell us which remedy the homeopathist administered.
Did I just say homeopathist??
This post was edited by HerbDoctor on Fri, Apr 12, 13 at 23:34
i was sitting next to her at the dinner table when this happened and i thought it was choking at first too so tried to help her expel it. she shook her head and pushed me away to let me know she wasn't choking on a piece of food.
the name of the homeopathic remedy was included in my original post. this is my last post on this topic, i have nothing to prove and could care less what eric and charlie the 'herb doctor' think or believe. i'm sharing this information for those who are really interested.
like others here i eagerly await reading about your fever protocol 'herb doctor'
Here's my experience with homeopathy and allergic reactions:
My husband used to break out in hives that would spread to his entire body and plague him for two or three days. We knew that one cause was accidental consumption of Red Dye 40, but more times than not there was no recognizable cause.
I found a homeopathic remedy that was said to help with hives. I don't remember the name of it, now. I do recall that it was for allergies to plant material. The next time an attack started, DH tried this remedy with no luck. I finally realized red dye 40 is made from insects, and he could possibly be having an extreme reaction to some small bite from some near invisible critter.
I bought him some Ledum, the common remedy for reactions to insect bites. It heads the hives off completely. We keep it in all our emergency kits now, and until the last couple of years, he used it once or twice a year, and never had the hives develop into anything like his previous full blown misery.
He has not had an incipient attack in many months now, but we still don't leave home without it. That, Resue Remedy, and Arnica make up our all purpose emergency kit.
ETA...pehaps, as Eric says, he should have been rushed to the emergency room at the first attack, but this was a reaction he had lived with all of his life, and he was in his fifties when we met.
thanks for sharing your experience jll, i don't know a lot about homeopathics but am curious and love hearing actual accounts of their use. wonder if apis remedy would work with red dye reactions? apis is the latin root for (honey)bee and i think it is sometimes used for venomous bites as well... homeopathic differentials are complex and not something i've studied so am just supposing. i like the sound of your emergency kit, rescue remedy and arnica are top notch choices, cheers! kali
Hives alone is not a medical emergency. When it requires immediate medical attention is when it is a component of an anaphylactic reaction.
As with most anecdotes, the one about the victim of anaphylactic shock miraculously starting to breathe again after being given a homeopathic agent and having no hospital treatment other than being pronounced "free and clear", does not jibe with reality. Someone who truly has experienced an anaphylactic reaction will receive at a minimum supplemental oxygen, have an intravenous line placed, receive epinephrine and likely other medications, and be monitored for an extended period.
The story strongly suggests something else was going on. And this is one common way in which alternative treatments get credit for curing or preventing an illness - the person never had the ailment in question.*
*for instance, alternative "cancer cures", where testimonials generally do not supply verifiable evidence of a cancer diagnosis (or if they do, there is no extended followup to show the person was cured, and no mention of or credit given to mainstream therapies that were also administered).
This post was edited by eric_oh on Sat, Apr 13, 13 at 19:54
You are probably right, Eric. Though the observed symptoms mimiced anaphalatic shock, perhaps she wasn't headed there at all.
Or perhaps she was rescued before she reached the full shock stage. My husband learned take Ledum EARLY, because if the hives reaction "implanted" itself, it would have to run its course, though the course would be a more gentle one than if he hadn't taken the Ledum
I'm sorry you know about AS first hand. It must have been a horribly frightening feeling when it happened, not being able to breathe and not knowing if you were going to make it to ER in time!
Kalia, I checked the indications list for apis. It is not suggested for hives but it is suggested for a sea granular, or nettle rash, and for a host of other conditions. Some of them include the very early skin sensations that seem to precede hives, so it might also be a good header-offer remedy.
As it happens, I found apis in our medicine chest recently, and couldn't remember what we bought it for. (I probably need to organize all my blue tubes and label them in plain English, so I don't have to go though that every time I find one.) Now I see that we probably bought it for one of hub's extreme reactions to a visible insect bite.
In the early 20th century, Einstein had a running debate with Neils Bohr, one of the early fathers of quantum mechanics. What Einstein hated most about QM was not, as has been said, that it meant that "God was playing dice with the universe", but that it represented a universe that could not be observed. That drove him crazy, but even he would come to admit that Quantum Mechanics could be a valuable tool in subatomic research..
That's about how I feel about Homeopathy. By all lights of rationalist science, nothing in our observable universe says it should work. But because it does in our household, I have adopted the 'valuable tool' approach, and it is now my first go-to for our everyday ailments.
i simply described what i saw happen right in front of me jan.... can't explain it but then again don't feel the need to. since what matters to me most is what works, i see you are that way too, am willing to accept the wisdom this medicine teaches. cheers to whatever works!
Unless you can answer the "why" question, you can't be certain what exactly worked. Scientific Analysis 101.
My Mom supposedly had dementia at one point, and certainly acted like it, but the situation resolved when an underlying urinary infection was treated.
Apparently infection can cause mental symptoms at times--a good argument for thoroughness in case evaluations.
eibren gave a good answer.
i don't understand exactly how jet planes work either herb doc but understand that one can carry me across the country or around the world : )
you've been taking your lead from and imitating the resident misanthrope for too long...i don't believe your heart is really into hate-ing on people the way you two do it here.
There's a world of difference between disagreeing with an opinion, and personally attacking someone over such a disagreement.
Some posters do not understand the difference or are unwilling to concede that it exists.
I'm happy for you, Eibren. It must have been a huge relief to see the turn around. As I have learned there are many many causes of apparent Alzheimer's. In addition to infection (most frequently urinary), other common ones that are often overlooked include B-12 deficiency, depression, dehydration, hypothyroidism, sleep disorders, and vascular problems.
I hope you never have need to go any further down the diagnostic tree than you have already.