bed sores?

chinacat_sunflower(7)July 19, 2005

dad's 78, diabetic, and and been in the hospital since mother's day (well, the just moved him to a 'ventilator rehabilitation facility, but that's another rant)

so it's no surprise that he's picked up some wounds despite their best efforts...

but the hell I'm going to just sit by and trust the vets with him...

he's not allergic to anything but iodine, mold, roses, and pennecillin, and I'm currently using a helicrysum/calendula blend in a lotion that seems to be doing good things for his existing skin- but he's got some slow-healing wounds on his arms where water blisters popped, and was hoping anyone knew a rinse or lotion or oil blend that might help? ?

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Daisyduckworth(Aust)

Apply a cold compress of Garlic Vinegar or Apple Cider Vinegar. Bed-ridden patients should be turned and pressure-points massaged several times a day to improve circulation. With patient lying on his/her back and knees bent, press and hold acupressure points behind the knees for several seconds.

Apply pure honey, liquid lecithin, or zinc ointment to a clean sore. Dress it with a gauze bandage.

Take Vitamins C, A, and B-complex, as well as folic acid and zinc.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2005 at 6:32PM
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Heathen1(10a)

Yeah, with circulation reduced from diabetes, I think this might be regular... he's going to have to be turn even more frequently. Bed sores form when pressure is put on nerves which use an acid to send signals and the acids eat at the flesh, or this is how I understand it. I'd think honey would be good... I tried once to make a balm from honey, self heal and comfrey and bees wax, but the honey separated out... :o(

    Bookmark   July 19, 2005 at 7:00PM
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kfgesq(z5NJ)

collodial silver as muc as possible andf turning constantly. www.utopia@utopiasilver.com

    Bookmark   July 20, 2005 at 1:38AM
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Daisyduckworth(Aust)

Any hospital providing reasonable care, would turn and massage such a patient at least every hour. I am astonished that a patient has sores such as you describe, even given the diabetes. In your shoes, I'd complain - loudly!

    Bookmark   July 20, 2005 at 9:07AM
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chinacat_sunflower(7)

daisey- it's a bit more complicated than that, and the hospital really did their best, but when you have a breathing tube down a 250 lb man's throat who's just had a necrotic gall bladder removed, and had multiple drains in- turning him just wasn't an option, and the 'moon-bounce' beds only do so much.

they trached him the friday before father's day (and told us on father's day that they didn't understand why he was still alive, much less as close to conscious as he was)

during all this mess, his kidney's nearly kicked from the strain, and he swelled up like a ball park frank (2 rounds of dyalisis and they started back up) but he was literally leaking through his skin, and his skin was sloughing off in places...

he's made tremendous ground in the past three weeks, the sores on his heels, elbows, and the back of his head have all healed, as have 40% of the skin tears...

but like I said, I'm not trusting the medical staff to do enough- mom is in every morning, and I'm in every evening, and as I'm learning things (like massage, and range of motion stretches) I'm teaching her, and we're not both keeping journals both of what WE do, and what THEY do (they'll turn his hips, but not his shoulders sometimes, which is bad for his back, bad for his Qi, and really bad for my state of mind)

the suggestions are great- I have a friend who's got a colliodal silver generator, as a matter of fact!

and daisy- thank you for suggesting acupressure, I will look into that right now!

    Bookmark   July 20, 2005 at 10:49AM
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Daisyduckworth(Aust)

Poor man, yes it's a difficult situation. You sound like a very caring daughter. I do hope his condition improves very soon.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2005 at 7:26PM
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franc(z5IND)

Maybe try honey
h##p://4nutritionalsupplements.com/products/honey-benefits-to-skin-and-wound-healing.shtml

I read a case history of a man that had horrible open sores and no other treatment worked until he tried Honey.The guy suffered for years when all he needed was a few weeks of placing honey on the wounds.Honey probably isn't used much because its cheap and almost anyone can get it but the Use of honey for open sores goes way back.

    Bookmark   July 25, 2005 at 12:28AM
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chinacat_sunflower(7)

he's making ground by half-inches...but that's fine, as long as he's making ground :)

we've got granulation on the two serious ones, the nurses have adapted to dad's room smelling 'funny' (even I will admit that the helichrysum smells medicinal) and as soon as I can catch up with the local honey dealer, I will add that to the list :)

they're using a zinc and vitaminc C cream on him all on their own, and the ointment that treats the necrotic tissue is papain and chlorophyll- it seems that the medical professions really ARE learning.

I am very much the daddy's girl- though I did ambush my mom, and talk her into coming out to 'hang with the girls' since she helped raise half of us in the first place (my parents were the ones everyone ran to when THEIR parents were being irrational, which is funny, since mine were the oldest, and often the most conservative of the lot)

I also got dad away from the old broadway/nostalgia kick we were on, and started bringing in comedies- he never did get around to seeing the Shrek movies, and they were right up his alley :)

    Bookmark   July 25, 2005 at 12:27PM
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moonrisepines(northern calif.)

Hello,
I have had excellent results with all wounds using comfrey ointment. It needs to be put on clean skin though. I make my own and add antibiotic herbs just in case. Also, comfrey tea will help heal from the inside out if they'll allow you to give your Dad something not prescribed by the doctor. You might want to ask the doctor to agree to the tea. This is a hard situation for both of you and I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2005 at 11:50AM
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debethz(C MO)

Hi, I am so glad you care so much for your family. I hope for a full recovery.

I have a sore at the bottom of my left leg that has been weeping for 3 months now. My lower legs are swollen and I have bumps, or dry skin type stuff going on also on my legs. When applying honey do I put a bandage over it? What I have been doing so far is keeping a bandage over it but the bandage gets soaked. I have gone to the dr. and all I got was antilbiotics and no help. If anyone could explain these skin tears it would help. Thanks

    Bookmark   August 31, 2005 at 2:28PM
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esoterica(7)

There are some clays you could investigate... french green, pascalite, and bentonite.

If I had an ulcer, I'd treat it with clays. inside and out.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2005 at 3:39PM
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chinacat_sunflower(7)

debethz....

your doctor needs to be slapped with the plaque on which is inscribed his Hippocratic Oath.

you have fluid retention in your legs, and a weeping sore that will not heal?

1) are you diabetic, by any chance?

2) are you sure?

3) is this an inflicted wound that did not heal (a bug bite, a splinter, a scratch?)

I'm asking because the doctors ignored the obvious with my father, and we buried him three weeks ago.

cause of death? Renal failure. liver and kidneys packed it in, after 3 months of me arguing that the swelling in his limbs was NOT normal, was NOT merely caused by inactivinty, but WERE symptomatic of something.

1) cut salt out of your diet...and I don't care if this means you need to eat nothing but raw fruit and hippy granola for a week.

2) start cutting back on your caffiene now- don't try and go cold turkey, you'll just hurt yourself, but start swapping one soda or coffee for green tea or water.

3) parsley, wheatgrass, dandelion, and milk thistle are all liver detox/diuretic herbs. don't care how you ingest them (extracts, juice bars, whatever)

4) start looking for another doctor, armed with the phrases 'chronic lymphodema' and 'weeping wound has lasted 3 months, failed to respond to antibiotics, traditional wound care'

5) what is the wound like? has it changed at all in this time ? gotten bigger? gotten deeper? changed colors?

what color, texture, is the fluid?

please get back to me- stuff like this scares the bloody hell out of me at this point.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2005 at 2:51PM
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volkersystems

Living with pressure sores is never an enjoyable experience. If you are at risk of developing them, or you are taking care of someone who might be at risk, get informed about pressure sores to avoid developing these unpleasant injuries.
This guide will tell you the best ways to prevent and care for pressure sores.

What are pressure sores and what causes them?
Pressure sores are also described as bed sores, pressure ulcers or decubitus ulcers. They are formed when constant pressure on part of the skin causes the blood vessels feeding that part to shut down. At first, this causes a red or dark patch on the skin. As further pressure is applied, the skin continues to deteriorate, breaking down to form blisters and dead skin, and then going on to affect underlying tissues, bones and joints.
Pressure sores can appear on any part of the body, but will usually develop on parts most susceptible to pressure when sitting or lying down, e.g., the lower back, buttocks, shoulders, hips, heels, knees and ankles.

In general, people who are bed-bound or in wheelchairs are particularly susceptible to developing bed pressure sores. Other factors that increase the likelihood of developing these sores include old age, immobility, incontinence, malnutrition and dehydration, diseases that slow healing, mental disorders that result in a lack of awareness about the bodys condition and the taking of certain medications such as sedatives.

How will I know if I have a pressure sore?
There are four stages of severity in the development of a pressure sore.
- Initially, you may find it appears as a red area of skin (or a darker area of skin than normal on darker skins). It is a mark that doesnÂt disappear after a few hours and may also feel tender. Sometimes, the initial appearance of a pressure sore may appear like a bruise  purple in color and painful to touch.
- The second stage may include a partial loss of skin that may appear as a blister, shallow crater or abrasion.
- The third stage of severity involves a full skin loss which extends to the underlying skin tissue.
- The last stage involves a total skin loss and the sore extends to the underlying tissue, muscle and bone.

How do I treat existing sores?
Properly caring for your existing pressure sore is the best way to promote healing and prevent it from becoming more severe. You might be caring for your pressure sores yourself or have a caregiver who cares for them, but it is always best to be informed about the process. Here are four main steps that need to be followed:

1. Pressure relief
Continuing to place pressure on an existing pressure sore will aggravate the sore and prevent it from healing. Instead, it is essential to relieve the area from any form of pressure. If possible invest in a pressure-reliving mattress or pressure relieving aids such as cushions to help you.

2. Cleaning
Pressure sores will heal well if they are kept clean and it will also ensure the prevention of infection. This means they should be free of dead tissue, have excess fluid drained away from the sore and should also be clear of any other debris. A healthcare professional should show you how to clean or rinse the sore and also how to wipe away any loose material. The right equipment and methods should be used too. If too much force is used, it can aggravate the sore or if not enough force is used, the wound may not be cleansed properly.

3. Removing dead tissue
Dead tissue which is present in the pressure sore can lead to infection and prevent the sore from healing. Your healthcare professional will usually carry out the process of removing the dead tissue. Since it may be painful, a pain-reliever may be taken beforehand. Procedures that may be used can range from simply rinsing the sore to applying enzyme medications to dissolve the dead tissue. In rare cases, surgery to remove deeply embedded dead tissue may be required.

4. Dressings
It is important to choose the right dressings to care for your pressure sores. Speak to your healthcare professional about the different types available. You will require different types depending on the type that will best aid healing, how often the dressing needs to be changed and whether or not the sore is infected. Dressings are normally required to keep the sore moist and the surrounding skin dry.

What else should I know?
When cleaning your sores, it is a good time to check for signs that it is healing well. Ideally, you should see signs of a sore healing within 2 to 4 weeks. This includes seeing a decrease in the size and depth of a sore and a decrease in drainage.
Also, you should look out for any signs that the sore has become infected as the infection can spread to the underlying tissues, bones and even to the rest of the body. Signs of infection include having think green or yellow drainage, a foul odor, redness, warmth or tenderness surrounding the sore and swelling. Watch out for signs of fever, chills, weakness, confusion, difficulty concentrating and rapid heart beat that can indicate the infection might have spread throughout the body. If you are concerned and experience any of these symptoms, contact your healthcare provider immediately.

To manage the pain that pressure sores cause, changing your body position is often a factor that helps. In addition, some patients may choose to take an over-the-counter pain reliever or ask their doctor for a prescription.

How can I avoid developing pressure sores?

There are many ways to prevent pressure sores from occurring. Try to incorporate the following tips into your daily routine:

- Examine yourself very carefully ever day for any signs of sores developing. Recognizing you have a sore developing at an early stage will help you take care of it and prevent it from becoming more severe.
- Eat a nutritious and balanced diet, with extra protein to help keep your skin tissue healthy. A good diet will ensure your body has what it needs to heal itself well and cope with infection.
- Use barrier creams or protective creams to protect areas that are susceptible to becoming moist.
- Protect vulnerable areas of your body from pressure, fiction and moisture. If you are in a wheelchair or undertaking bed rest, it is essential that you change your body position every two hours (or it is recommended that those sitting down change positions every hour). Your caregiver or physician can give you guidance on which positions are best to use.
- Keep you skin clean, dry and well-moisturized. Moisturize your skin thoroughly after washing as skin can be weakened when it dries out. Avoid using talcum powder which depletes the skinÂs natural oils.
- Make sure any existing sores are cleaned, dressed and bandaged properly.
- Drink at least 2 liters of fluid a day.
- Make sure there are no wrinkles or crumbs on your bed sheets or chair.
- Go to great lengths to avoid rubbing areas of your skin that could get sore. This includes avoiding dragging your heels or elbows when moving around in bed.
- Invest in pressure-relieving aids such as pillows, sheepskins and foam pads. The best investment patients can make to prevent pressures sores is buying a good pressure mattress. These mattresses are designed to relieve any pressure that is exerted on a patient when lying down. Some designs even help reposition the patientÂs weight every few minutes, meaning there is no need to continually reposition them. Pressure-relieving mattresses are one of the best tools used to prevent the development of pressure sores.

Rachel Clarkson is a bed sores specialist and a big fan and promoter of "The Volkner Turning Mattress": http://www.Volkner.com

    Bookmark   March 13, 2010 at 9:23PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

According to a recent systematic review of types of beds used to help prevent bedsores, some types of foam mattresses and medical-grade sheepskin were found to be helpful. Alternating-pressure-type mattresses (such as those promoted by the spammer in the preceding post) did not have good evidence on their side.

Looking into whether the patient has proper nutrition (and using supplements when needed) is a good idea.

    Bookmark   March 15, 2010 at 7:25PM
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