skin fungus or psoriasis??

mln99(z9 FL)October 26, 2003

Please help..it started as what i thought was a bug bite, a small itchy red bump on my right knee. It got bigger and circular, and raised. With perscription lotrisome it becomes flat and fades a little but then comes right back even before I stop using the medication. Every time it gets better and then comes back, it comes back bigger. I can feel it starting to come back and then i start to see tiny raised dots that itch. My doctor was confused because the fungus culture came back negative. Now he feels it is psoriasis. I work in a preschool and another teacher has a VERY similar thing on her arm. I have no history of psoriasis in my family. I have tried 5 different perscriptions and I am very frustrated becauses it is only getting bigger, not better... Any suggestions would be helpful! Thank you!!

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bushpoet(z6 Bronx NY)

mln99, I don't know if you live in tick country but it might be a good idea for you & the other teacher to get screened for Lyme Disease - the sooner the better. The Lyme rash is usually painless, but the disease is insidious.
The link below has a picture of the classic Lyme rash, if you click on the little photo more will load up s-l-o-w-l-y ;0(.

Please let us if things resolve. Could also be poison ivy?

Good luck,
bushpoet

Here is a link that might be useful: Picture of Lyme rash

    Bookmark   October 27, 2003 at 11:46AM
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chineseherbs(9a Florida)

hmm...
you think you and the teacher may have been exposed to the same chemical or something.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2003 at 11:48AM
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Traute_Biogardener

This is the first time I have seen this posting. If the condition is still bothering you, I may have a natural remedy for you. So if it still bothers you, send me a message, because I may not see this message again for a long time.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2004 at 8:03AM
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oakleif(z6 AR)

min99
I've got the same thing. and it is psorisis. I've had it for years.and it comes and goes. I have few red bumps. But it acts like you described. A doctor told me something in our system (UNKNOWN) goes haywire and our skin cells start making new cells galore and it itches ,turns reddish or pinkish like new skin and the older skin dies and flakes off. The skin flaking off is a sure sign of psorisis. and it does start in a small spot and gets bigger. Once i had a perfectly round spot. someone told me it was ringworm but it was'nt it turned into regular psorisis
A doctor ordered a prescription salve called ultra vate. As long as i take it faithfully twice a day it stays under controll. Good luck in finding out for sure what it is. Look it up on line for more info.
oakleif

    Bookmark   November 6, 2004 at 8:37PM
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drlubnazubair(hyd PAK)

If u dont mind never think or diagnose yourself but always consult the doctor who is related with the problem.
In my opinion u should consult with a good dermatologist of your city rather than discuss its appearance.
Dr. Lubna Zubair Alm

    Bookmark   January 31, 2005 at 12:00PM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Everybody knows that all dermatologists suggest steroid cream or low steroid cream which can not solve the health problem but gives only temporary cosmetic effect and makes the person slave of the cream.
This is herbalism forum and dermatologists are not Herbalists.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2005 at 3:27AM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

While this is an old thread, it is worthwhile to note that dermatologists make use of many therapies apart from steroids to treat psoriasis. If one doesn't work well, there are other options and no one becomes "addicted".

This site has information on the subject.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2005 at 8:40AM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

The quote from that website

"Currently, there is no cure for psoriasis. However, there are many treatment options that can clear psoriasis for a period of time."
Yes, because any skin problem means a disease of internal organs and dermatologist can not help you with it.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2005 at 8:42PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

"Yes, because any skin problem means a disease of internal organs and dermatologist can not help you with it. "

In a minority of cases, skin problems can be an indicator of systemic disease or cancer. Dermatologists (as well as other physicians) are trained to recognize these unusual instances and respond accordingly.

Psoriasis has not been linked to "a disease of internal organs" and as the linked site shows, can be alleviated by numerous treatments. There is also work underway on targeted therapy based on genetic differences in some psoriasis patients.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2005 at 8:56PM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

No. In a majority of cases, skin problems indicate internal problem - liver, stomac, digestive system, disbacteriosis etc.
Dermatolists concentrate on a skin but actually you have to treat another organ as well and very often your skin will clear up itself .
But it is a very long and difficult way so not too many doctors and patients can follow it.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2005 at 10:14PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

I'm not sure where you got this idea (and what is "disbacteriosis"?), but it is incorrect. As noted previously, the cause of psoriasis is not fully understood but there appears to be a genetic basis, and it is not helped by treating the liver, digestive tract or other internal organs. Most other common skin afflictions are related to causes such as allergies, irritants, sun exposure, superficial infections and tumors or unknown etiologies.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2005 at 8:16AM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Actually it is useless to argue with you because you know only american medicine. But in other countries medicinal knowledge is different and I know what I am talking about based on my own experience.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2005 at 3:35AM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

Evidence-based medicine regarding skin disorders is similar around the world.

This site includes links to international organizations that are dedicated to helping people with various skin ailments.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2005 at 10:00AM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Thank you for the links, but everywhere the reccomendations are the same - use creams. One lady wrote about the cream which she was happy about-"I don't ever want to be without this cream." But why would she need to use it again and again if she's already cured? Because the cream works only on her skin and she still has her internal desease.
I make my own ointment for dry eczema and it works very well but the person must drink herbal teas and follow the diet. I refused to work with one patient that continued to eat junk food and drink gallons of coca-cola.
P.S. When I say 'American Medicine' I mean Western Medicine, since Traditional Chinese and Folk mdicine from other countries can cure things Western Medicine cannot.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2005 at 5:30PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

"...everywhere the reccomendations are the same - use creams."

The linked site provides a large collection of skin disease-related information - including university websites, patient support groups, educational sites, online forums and links to some commercial vendors. There is advice on prevention as well as discussion of a large variety of treatments. The vast majority of it has nothing to do with promoting topical remedies.

"I know what I am talking about based on my own experience."

It would be helpful if you could provide any documented research or clinical data to support the idea that we must treat internal organs in order to successfully treat most skin diseases.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2005 at 7:30PM
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tressa(SECA)

Arttulip....could you share your ointment for eczema??

    Bookmark   February 17, 2005 at 12:39PM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Yes, I can, it is an old Russian remedy. But I am afraid that it will be difficult for you to get some ingridients such as raw propolis ( not a tincture), dried Greater Celandine herb and rosin (kind of the pine gum).
Also the base of this ointment - St.John's wort oil which can be made only from fresh leaves and flowers. I make it myself in small amounts ( 6 litres in this season).

The link for Eric. Disbacteriosis means the absensy of good bacterias in the gut. The Russian doctors have known about it over twenty years.

Here is a link that might be useful: A Healthy Gut

    Bookmark   February 18, 2005 at 1:50AM
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johnyb(QLD Aust)

I just did a pubmed search keying in "disbacteriosis" (as i had not heard the term before and it failed a mention in my medical dictionary), and it is indeed cited in a number of studies, predominately of Russian origin.

"Bacteriosis" is listed in my medical dictionary as "any bacterial disease", so maybe dibacteriosis refers to the absence of beneficial bacteria.

John

    Bookmark   February 18, 2005 at 5:08AM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

arttulip's link mentions a research study that recommends a healthy diet for patients who have recently received antibiotics, to restore normal bowel organisms. Potential problems when antibiotic therapy for severe infections promotes overgrowth of resistant bugs have been known by physicians around the world for decades, and are watched for when these powerful drugs are prescribed.

The article makes no mention of "disbacteriosis" and does not suggest that psoriasis or other common skin disorders are caused by altered bacterial balance in the bowel.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2005 at 8:15AM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

The article about healthy gut shows you that american doctors just started to study the problem which Russian and Chinese medicine already know. This is why you can not find enough info about it.

You can not get good useful bacterias following a healthy diet. You have to intake special capsules ( or other forms) of different kind of dried live bacterias depending which ones you individually need - Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Bulgaricus, Bifido Bacterium Biphidum, Streptococcus Termophilus

http://www.euritaliafarma.it/Enteroflora/enteroflora_uk.htm

"...I am all too familiar with the debilitating pains of skin disease because I suffered from life long severe eczema. It wasn't until 1998 that I achieved a complete cure with natural means. The reason that a skin disease like eczema and psoriasis can cripple a person's physical and mental aptitude as described above is not understood by most people. Holistic doctors view eczema and psoriasis as symptoms of a "blood disease" which occurs when eliminative organs (liver, kidneys, intestines, etc.) malfunction, causing toxins to accumulate in the blood which can affect mental clarity and aptitude. The body attempts to compensate for faulty eliminative organs by excreting these toxins through the skin which is the largest eliminative organ next to the liver. (In his book, Healing Psoriasis, Dr. Pagano explains how build up of toxicity leads psoriatics to expel toxins through secondary systems, namely the skin.)" More here
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/psoriasis.htm

"...If we eliminate the causes of intestinal inflammations and permeability, help the liver and other organs in the elimination of accumulated substances, all of these generating the psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, we are given a great step to an optimal health...."
http://www.psoriasisplace.com/

http://www.dr.syrokomsky.com/eng-page5.html

    Bookmark   February 18, 2005 at 5:14PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

"The article about healthy gut shows you that american doctors just started to study the problem which Russian and Chinese medicine already know."

Again, the article you linked to does not make any claims about gut organisms causing psoriasis or other common skin disorders. And as mentioned, the international medical and scientific community has long been aware that resistant bacteria can cause other problems in people and animals receiving antibiotics. For more information, do a Google or PubMed search on pseudomembranous colitis, for starters.

As to non-American doctors purportedly having the answers - the linked website run by someone claiming to be a Ukrainian doctor who treats psoriasis, contains no research or clinical data to support his arguments. He instead presents a list of patients he supposedly helped, but there is no way to know if they had psoriasis (or any skin disorder) or what the outcome of their "treatment" was.

As to the other sites you linked to - one also depends on personal testimonials, theories in books that have little or no connection to treating psoriasis and off-the-wall warnings about vaccinations. The other site sells a variety of bacterial preparations that are supposed to have all kinds of wondrous health effects, again with no supporting scientific evidence listed.

Here's an explanation of why we can't trust personal testimonials.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2005 at 11:39AM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Eric, I am not going to proof anything. If you disagree it is up to you. You are not my patient.
You trust doctors but I do not.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2005 at 9:14PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

That's the question. Should we trust anyone - physicians, alternative practitioners or internet sellers - who claims to have cures but will not offer reliable evidence that they work?

It's our health and money that are at stake.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2005 at 9:56PM
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arttulip(New Zealand)

Unfortunately thousands people start to try alternative methods because doctors could not help them. And unfortunately not so many really good practitioners around who can really help.
And I trust info from good old books and from old folk healers.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2005 at 12:49AM
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AlpineFlower(z5 CO)

Wow, this is an intense thread. I've had similar spots, but I only recently acquired them, as in the past 2 years. I've been to doctors as well as dermatologists, and they haven't ruled it as psoriasis, or ringworm, or anything else. They come and go as they please, and the best response I've recieved so far is not to take really super-hot showers. I guess it's just patches of extremely dry skin that's aggrevated more by intense heat (being in a dry CO climate doesn't help either)

Also, I've found that when I swim, they go away. They're not super-obvious, and maybe its the clorine that helps it, but they definitely dull out after a day at the pool.

Hope that helps people who have a mild case of this like me. Take care!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2005 at 10:36PM
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riffmaster

Hello, I need help and have no avenues to turn to.
I have some type of skin disorder on my, legs, arms,and feet nothing on my face. kinda looks like tiny warts been to a dermatologist and they said it was nothing, shown it to doctors they could not help me, it bothers me very much i'm scared to show my body as someone might see it all over me it's dicusting and it's been on me for years please i need some help with this so i can move on with my life.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2005 at 9:15AM
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bushpoet(z6 Bronx NY)

arttulip, I think you may be referring to what naturopaths here call 'dysbiosis'. My own experiences & observations have led me to a similar understanding - that the majority of chronic skin conditions have deeper roots. How could they not? The body is an integrated system, after all.

If you google "dysbiosis" there's lots of interesting stuff online. I've included a link that discusses it indepth.

The basic theory is that one should avoid excess refined carbohydrates, animal proteins & antibiotic usage and instead increase hydration & the consumption of fiber & foods which promote the growth of beneficial flora in the gut. Fermented soy products such as miso & tempeh, and fermented veggies such as real sauerkraut, as well as yogurt with live cultures provide additional boosts of 'friendly' bacteria.

I've also read that eating sunchokes ('jerusalem artichokes') - perhaps because of its inulin content - promotes the proliferation of beneficial gut flora.

As an aside: I had a poignant reminder recently when my pet rabbit had a medical emergency that my vet labeled "intestinal dybiosis" - which can be a life-threatening condition in herbivores. Turns out my soft-hearted housesitter had been feeding the bunny sugar coated cranberries (arghh!) and that's what landed her in crisis.

~bushpoet

Here is a link that might be useful: The causes of intestinal dybiosis - a review

    Bookmark   April 1, 2005 at 11:18AM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

I did not see anything in that paper or its references that demonstrated that psoriasis and other common skin disorders are due to "Western diets" or altered bowel organisms. In fact, most of the research the paper cites seems to have little or nothing to do with the claims it makes.

Personal philosophy (as opposed to scientific evidence) may lead one to be convinced that skin ailments "must" have an internal connection. The idea that all disease has some central cause is appealing (and has led many people to espouse various debunked theories of disease causation).

Life is far too complex for simple solutions.

Getting back to psoriasis - it has a number of manifestations and there are lookalike disorders that are treated differently. Suggestions for alternative therapy for any chronic skin condition should wait until a definite diagnosis has been made by a qualified physician.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2005 at 12:49PM
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johnyb(QLD Aust)

Bushpoet,

Thanks very much for sharing that article with us, I found it most interesting.

John.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2005 at 5:56PM
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bushpoet(z6 Bronx NY)

Glad you found the review article of value, johnyb, esp. because I have so enjoyed your passionate & informative posts in this Forum.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2005 at 9:56PM
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kfgesq(z5NJ)

my daughter had a bad bout with a skin problem. i eventually cured it with a homeopathic remedy called Rhus Tox. In the beginning i also used a variety of essential oils topically. But a bottom line cause is always the way to go. I had exema and went crazy trying to figure it out. Turned out that I was deficient in Omega 3 essential fatty acids. After taking them for a few weeks it started to improve and went away. Hot showers did aggravate it. Now the homeopathic remedy I suggested is not for everyone. Homeopathy is a very individualized treatment. Consult a homeopath for a correct remedy. It works for my daughter. And anytime she sees a little spot she takes a few. But being a teenager her diet is garbage, soda, chips, sweets etc. She knows about acidopholous now and I agree with all of the above posts on the root causes being the key. Everyone is different however and not every remedy will work across the board. Thanks for all the intersting posts.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2005 at 12:18AM
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jessicaustin

I have had psoriasis for about 15 years now, and only after i gave birth to my son two years ago did i find out that psoriasis is an immune dificiancy.(BC: while i was pregnant it was completey gone) so it makes sense to try and heal it from the inside out, right??? I have no idea where to start with that...but i CANNOT rely on creams anymore, it's a terrible thing. however, lately i am concerned that there might be some kind of fungus going on with the psoriasis on my legs...i have no idea how to tell???
any info would help!!!!
~Thanx~

    Bookmark   August 31, 2006 at 5:23AM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

If there's a secondary infection involving skin affected by psoriasis, it may be possible for your doctor to diagnose it with a simple skin test. Fungal infections have lookalikes and it's not possible to tell what's going on without a professional examination.

Psoriasis is related to disordered immune function, but not to a deficiency.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2006 at 10:00AM
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oakleif(z6 AR)

eric

    Bookmark   July 26, 2008 at 10:11PM
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apollog

Of course psoriasis is more than a skin condition - it is an immune condition that involves system wide inflammation which is most visible in the skin, but which can also commonly affect the joints (psoriatic arthritis), and which can affect other tissues, including the heart.

Yes, there is a genetic predisposition to psoriasis, but that is no different than the genetic predisposition to heart disease - lifestyle factors can still make a difference.

Psoriasis has been treated through the gut - using ox bile, slippery elm, or similar compounds, which reduce the absorption of large proteins, which can send the immune system into overdrive.

Bacterial infections are a common trigger for psoriasis/psoriasis flares - particulary Strep type infections.

Sunlight or UV therapy is commonly prescribed for psoriasis, as are synthetic forms of Vitamin D. Vitamin D is both a vitamin and a hormone; it turns down many components of the immune system. Most OTC forms of vitamin D supplements are not effective for psoriasis, as they are relatively weak and need to be activated by the kidneys, which limits their effect. Sunshine, on the other hand, is recognized as helpful (and psoriasis is more common in areas with less sunshine - the further away from the tropics one goes, the more psoriasis in general, the cloudier a place is, the more psoriasis in general).

    Bookmark   July 27, 2008 at 8:49AM
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kaylapaiam_gmail_com

The American Institute of Advanced Medicine holds the answers to your embarrassing psoriasis problems. having itchy red patches on your elbows and scalp; that over the counter medicines only temporarily relieve, can feel hopeless and very upsetling. Seeing white flakes and scales on your legs, scales that itch. The American Institute of Advanced Medicine is sharing their cure with psoriasis sufferers. Everyone Deserves healthycskin and freedom from red patches and white scales. "We succeed where others have failed". Visit us at theaiam.com we look forward to seeing you achieve your healthy skin goals!

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 4:54PM
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rusty_blackhaw(6a)

The "American Institute of Advanced Medicine" is a rather mysterious-sounding outfit. Their website lists no address or staff, only a phone number. The site claims they are a "medical research company" (whatever that is) that has supposedly developed "treatments" for a bunch of skin diseases, but there is no info on any "research" either, only a few testimonials.

Based the lack of useful information or indication that they are doing anything herbal-related, you'd have to decide whether it's worth the time to phone them, given the likelihood that what you'll get is a salesperson trying to sell you supplements of no demonstrated value.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 6:49PM
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