Kocide 3000 mix ratio advice

questor3March 26, 2010

Have now received my Kocide 3000 from Johnny's as per so many recomendations here, and have now gone over the accompanying user guide. I am not seeing the proper suggested useage info regarding rates that apply to me. It is geared towards large orchard usage. Can some one here please advise me on the proper broken down mix rates for in a 2 gallon mix for instance? I did the forum search thing here, and still have not located what I need or want to see there, either. The label states 3.5 - 7.0 lbs per acre. How does a small orchard person actually best measure ounces of "powder" to be used in such small batches? ?Such as 1 tablespoon = 1 ounce for instance? What mix ratio is working for those of you having success with this product on Apples? Does the same % mix basically work on both pomes and stones? I believe I prefer a strong end of suggested range mix now for this first time app, as I did not get a fall application down. I will be mixing it with a dormant oil as well. I only recently came across this forum and it's usefull advice(have been studying up on much of it this past Winter), so this will be my first season of managed controls. Thank you in advance for any helpful advice, I do appreciate it...questor3

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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Hi questor3-
This question has come up here before because others have had the very same question. In the end, we all found the calculations very difficult, if not impossible to do. Possibly Michael357 may have come up with something, but I'm not sure. For me, in the end, (and this is the only pesticide that I've done this with), I wound up going with Jellyman and Scott Smith's advice of 2 tbsp per gallon. But, the 2 tbsp per gallon was actually formulated with the less effective Kocide2000 and Scott (and possibly Jellyman?) are backing the dosage down to 1.5 or even 1 tbsp per gallon. I was going to back mine down to 1.5 tbsp/gallon this year, and then if all goes well, down to 1 tbsp/gal next year. Make sense?
-Glenn

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 7:25PM
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ramble

I got mine and the website said 1-2 TBS. per gallon.

I plan to call the manufacturer to confirm.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 8:44PM
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Michael

questor: from the label - minimum recommended spray volume, dilute = 400 gallons/A for tree crops. The rates by crop in the tables are stated in lb/A. So, as I understand it, if a grower wants to go with the "dilute" rate per acre they will be mixing proportionally the stated lb. of product from the tables in 400 gal. of water. for example if you only needed 100 gallons mixed up and the table rate called for 10 lb/A then you'd mix 2.5 lb of product in 100 gal. and cover 1/4 of an acre with it. As I understand it, this product is intended to be sprayed to the drip point and that is how I apply it. I also know how much mix is needed to cover what I'll be spraying and mix it accordingly.

Therefore, I use the dilute rate to get good coverage and adjust up and down based on the table lb/A rate.

For example the Apple Scab, Fireblight rate = 3.5 - 7.0 lb/A. To make one gallon at 7.0 lb/A dilute that is 7 lb in 400 gal.. Mine gets weighed out in grams, I don't trust tablespoon measures any more as they vary quite a lot. 7lb =3178g. 3178/400gal=8g or 8g per gal. How that translates to Tbsp I can't say.

So far, no Scab, FB or PLC using this method. One of these days I'll weigh up a sample and toss it in a Tbsp measure to see how full the measure is.

Hopefully, others will chime in as I sure don't have all the answers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kocide3000 label

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 11:08PM
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questor3

Thanks to all. Some good stuff comming from everybody. Way to nail it down Michael357. I knew I would be in good hands here...:~)

Glen,
Yes, your plan to back off does make sense. Do so incrementally, so as to judge ongoing effectiveness. I feel that I should do a strong ended approach on the recommended rate scale this time around. I have never applied any Copper before, and may have a mix of issues to address. So can scale back from that.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 11:48PM
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Beeone(4 N. Wyo.)

Michael is going about it the same way I do when I convert rates per acre down to rates per gallon or very small areas, except I don't use metrics if I can avoid it (when I find I need to calculate in grams or fractions of an ounce, I take it to the post office and ask the postmistress to weigh the proper amount on her scale for me, then mark my measuring container.)

One important point here, though, is that if you are dealing with powders and the rates are given by weight, you really need to use a scale to get your measurements. If the amount you want to use works down to 1 oz, a tablespoon may be one liquid ounce, but will not be 1 ounce by weight. So, weigh out the proper weight of the chemical, then measure it and write that down so in the future you can use volume measures and know you are getting the correct weight. Each chemical will vary because it's density will vary.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2010 at 12:19AM
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Michael

Beeone: your P.O. story made me laugh! I live in a 200 pop. town with a P.O. but something tells me our postmistress would never let me use her scale for weighing out cides. Actually, I use my reloading scale that measures in grains which adds another conversion to the process. The gravimetric to volumetric idea is very good but since I only have Kocide to weigh and haven't found an acceptable spoon, I just weigh it.

Here's to your postmistress!

    Bookmark   March 27, 2010 at 1:09PM
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Joanie54

Great advice by all . I have a question about when to apply to a small orchard of apple and peach trees?? I just finished an dormant application on apple and peach trees. The buds have just swelled. When should I reapply and when should I discontinue??

    Bookmark   April 15, 2013 at 4:07PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

I sprayed my trees about 10 days ago, but with all this rain (over 4 inches), i wonder if i shouldn't spray again... Still time. I think PLC will be horrible this year if not sprayed.

    Bookmark   April 16, 2013 at 10:43AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Joanie, it depends on how bad your diseases are, etc. If they are not bad you have done enough copper until leaf drop. With big problems more copper can be done later. I did my one peach/plum copper and thats all they get. I had bad fireblight last year on apples; they already had one copper at green tip and are going to get one more round before the blooms come out. Later copper sprays are at more dilute ratios and at some point its too late to spray any copper, mature leaves don't like it.

Frank, I don't have enough PLC experience to know the optimal timing for control sprays, hopefully someone else does or read up on it.

Scott

    Bookmark   April 16, 2013 at 12:50PM
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mrsg47(7)

Great to have you back Glenn! Mrs. G

    Bookmark   April 16, 2013 at 12:52PM
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Michael

Thanks for the vote of confidence Glenn. Just the other day I was looking for a spreadsheet I thought I made up for doing those darned Kocide calcs., as they can get rather time consuming and found it! Man, pouring over the spreadsheet to make sure I use it correctly now is daunting after the brain tumor, surgery and radiation. the mind isn't as sharp as it was when I built that hairy spreadsheet. Damn, can't even find my bag of Kocide 2000, looked everywhere!

Sorry OP, can't help at this time.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2013 at 3:45PM
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