kocide 3000 v/s MFF

mrsg47(7)March 26, 2014

Is there a marked difference between the effectiveness between Kocide 3000 and Monterey Fungi Fighter? Thanks, Mrs. G

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alan haigh

Yes, but the relative efficacy would depend on what you are gunning for. Details much appreciated.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 5:30AM
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alan haigh

Actually I can do better than that. I use copper for bacterial spot and peach leaf curl- it is also somewhat helpful for reducing the risk of fireblight. Monterey Fungus Fighter is to help control brown rot in stone fruit.

The copper is usually for dormant sprays in fruit trees (although organic growers have other uses for some formulations). MFF can often be used a month before fruit ripens to adequately protect from brown rot. If its wet and/or fruit is highly susceptible another spray 14 days later may be necessary.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 6:15AM
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jimmy56_gw

I already sprayed dormant oil, Should I spray now with copper and MFF for apple and peach trees?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 9:00AM
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mrsg47(7)

Thanks H-man. I wanted to know if I could use it instead of copper for PLC. You answered my question. Mrs. G

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 9:39AM
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mrsg47(7)

Jimmy 56 Do your peaches get Peach Leaf Curl (plc) during the summer. It is a nasty looking fungus that creates large red bumps on leaves, makes them curl and fall off of the tree. The fruit will also fall off. I had this fungus on my first peach tree the second year it was in the ground. I learned about spraying with copper and using a (sticker) a product by Bonide to help the copper last (stick) longer to the tree. I do not see why you can't spray over your dormant oil. I am just not sure as to how effective it will be as the dormant oil I use is really like a sealant. Maybe someone else in this forum can give you a better answer. Mrs. G

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 9:45AM
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Bradybb WA-Zone8

jimmy,
If your Peach trees are leafing out,it may be too late to spray for PLC this year.If they are not,then it won't hurt to do it,but it should be done soon.Spraying for it is usually recommended once in Fall after most of the leaves are off the trees and once or twice more in late Winter/early Spring. Brady

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 10:31AM
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alan haigh

Actually, as I've pointed out recently, it is often suggested by the pedigreed gurus that one spray of a copper based fungicide either in fall or early spring should be adequate to suppress PLC. Chlorothalinal will do the trick as well. I recently googled it because I sprayed at a couple of sites for PLC for the first time in years about a week ago.

I wouldn't bother spraying for it if it has yet to be a problem on your site. I never spray for it in my orchard and never suffer from it after about 25 years of growing peaches here (knock on wood).

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 7:43PM
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jimmy56_gw

Should I spray the apple trees now too with copper or chlorothalinal?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 9:32PM
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Bradybb WA-Zone8

harvestman,
Does your area get rainy Springs?Mine does and I've read a number of times that a second spray will help.
I did it this time with Bonide's Fung-onil(Chlorothalonil)and it still looks like there is some PLC on the emerging leaves at the branch tips of a Nectarine.
I thought I read the mixing directions correctly and sprayed thoroughly or possibly Bonide's stuff isn't very effective.Maybe I'll try Copper next time.
jimmy,
I don't grow Apples,they may need some kind of spray,but they don't get Peach Leaf Curl. Brady

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 2:29PM
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ltilton

Apple trees - what are you spraying them for? If it's scab, both copper and Chlorothalonil can be effective, but the timing is critical. So it depends on what "now" means in your orchard.

Spraying for scab should be done at green tip and at intervals thereafter until bloom is finished, depending on rain. Moisture is conducive to the spread of the spores. I don't like to spray copper when the trees aren't dormant, but that's me.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 3:28PM
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ljkewlj

Mrs. G

I used 2 sprays of Daconil on my peach tree and ended up with about a dozen leaves that had it on the whole tree spring of '13. I sprayed once around Thanksgiving of '12 and then again around Valentines day of '13. This time it was around Thanksgiving again and just a couple of weeks ago....the number of dam-blast-it snowstorms was really bad this year! :o(

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 4:53PM
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alan haigh

Brady, I'm in southeastern NY and springs are often nearly continuous drizzle- but that doesn't mean it's the same pressure you experience- I don't know. I think it's worse when it is both warm and wet.

By advice, I meant university advice, presumably based on research. When I searched for info, that general source consistently directed me towards the single spray approach. The label on the copper formulation I'm using calls for a single application for PLC as well.

The fact that a single spray didn't work is far from conclusive evidence that two or ten sprays would have worked better, but if I had your experience I'd probably go for the extra sprays. In the end we all have to find our own way.

Clorathalinal would presumably work as well as anything.

I have to admit that I'm far from expert on managing PLC as it has not often been a problem here.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 7:35PM
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mrsg47(7)

ljkewlj, H-man had the answer I was looking for. I really just wanted to know if I could really cut out one of my sprays, as I (thank goodness) do not get brown rot. My two sprays of copper keep my plc under control. Many thanks, Mrs. G

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 8:07PM
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Bradybb WA-Zone8

Okay thanks,I'm thinking about making a bordeaux mix and use it in the Fall and Fung-onil at late Winter with a sticker. Brady

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 9:49PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I still have some lime-sulfur, and that mixed with dormant oil can be used for PLC, You put it on heavy so it's potent.
If the plants had leaves they would burn off, so the mixture pretty much kills everything. I think it is a good idea to mix things up. Using different products etc. I also thought of using blackstrap molasses as a sticker. As some benefits to molasses as a fertilizer, and food for beneficial bacteria. I still have regular sticker.
I thought you didn't need a sticker with fungonil?

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 12:41AM
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Bradybb WA-Zone8

I just don't know Drew.To me,it sounds like one of the most powerful fungicides to battle PLC with and yet it's on every branch tip on the tree.So I figured it could have been washed away somewhat with all the rain we've had.
The conditions here could had made it pleasant for the fungus too.There were some fairly warm days in early March that sped up the growing process.Things started growing and blooming and then came the rain and probably just the right temperature to activate it.
I'm going to try and contact Bonide and see if they can be of help. Brady

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 2:27AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Good luck! Winter is still here in MI, it is ending Sunday, but Monday it was 11 degrees. Yesterday was the first day we hit 50 degrees High today is 39 F I have yet to spray as the temps have been single digit. Sunny and 53 Sunday, I'll spray and prune Sunday. The next week is in the 50's.
Still hitting near freezing at night. In 2 weeks I'll do the sulfur-lime-dormant oil spray. It needs to be above 40 at night.

Fung-Onil is not supposed to be used with oil, the label mentions waiting a week for oil based applications. It can be mixed with copper! Maybe used soap as a sticker, insecticidal or dish. Depends if sticker is oil based. No suggestion to use sticker on label..
Here a useful link of Bonide labels

Here is a link that might be useful: Bonide labels

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 4:13AM
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alan haigh

The single spray approach is based on the assumption the material will wash off and it is still how Cornell recommends dealing with PLC for commercial growers in NY where we get on average between 3 and 4" precip a month. No dry season in the east.

The idea, I guess, is the spray should kill the fungus on the tree which is the only source of actual infection symptoms year to year. Still a good sticker couldn't hurt as I think I've also read from another source that it's best to spray during dry periods, apparently beyond what should be needed for initial knock down. (Like I said, we do have to find our own way. Absolute clarity is in short supply in growing fruit).

I use powered sprayers that completely cover a tree. With a hand powered backpack sprayer this can be very difficult, especially if there is any wind. On a still day it just requires patience.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 6:38AM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Brady,

According to university trials, chlorothalonil is more effective against PLC than copper. That has been my experience as well.

I still occasionally see a little PLC with chlorothalonil, but it's seldom and certainly doesn't cause any issues for me.

I generally just spray once in the dormant season, which is enough here. I do notice the label on the chlorothalonil formulation I use (Echo 90 DF) says to spray once in the fall and one or two more apps. during the winter if pressure is heavy. Presumably one might conclude from those instructions that more apps would provide better control, but like I say, one app is all that's needed here.

I do generally use a sticker with the dormant chlorothalonil spray. Like captan, the warning to avoid the use of oil with chlorothalonil has to do with foliage burn.

Fortunately if you are just seeing PLC on the ends of shoots, it's not a bad case. I think you are right, it probably washed away from the tips, and/or the tips didn't receive the same coverage. I've found with hand spraying, it's harder to hit all the tips.

Good photo.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:36AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Thanks for the info, that helps me too. I'm about to put chlorothalonil on the trees. I will use a sticker. Yeah they give warnings about sulfur-lime and oil too, but that is exactly what you use while dormant. So I find the labels confusing as all heck sometimes. I hit the trees with it too, but the sulfur-lime is more a preventative for my brambles, and with the oil to kill any overwintered insect eggs and such, does the same for the trees, so I use both. Well this year anyway. Next year I won't have anymore lime-sulfur spray being discontinued and such. I like to use it as a preventative for mildews, rust, and leaf spots and such too, a shame, a good product that is safe. I run into these problems from time to time so use a preventative. Hopefully somebody will start producing it again.
Last year I had downy mildew on cucumbers. Once it's there, forget it. it killed all my plants. Chlorothalonil, mancozeb, and fixed copper work against it. So I spray at least one of these now. I might not grow them this year. No room, too many tomatoes and peppers!

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 10:36AM
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Bradybb WA-Zone8

Okay,thanks a lot.The tree is still small and I want try and keep it that way.Next year I may put a polyfilm sheet over it a little before bud swell and until the leaves come out. Brady

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 5:42PM
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