Everbearing Raspberries question

sunnibel7 Md 7(7)March 9, 2013

I'm running a bit behind on certain tasks this year, one of which is cutting down last year's canes of my rapsberries. They have spread a bit, but could certainly fill in the gaps between the original planting much better. So I am wondering, would they spread better if I left them alone now? Would the suckering happen better if fueled by the leaves on last year's canes or does it not matter? I had better get a jump, though, if I'm going to have to cut them. I think things are going to break dormancy real soon. Thanks!

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Are you talking about the canes that bore spring fruit last year? On my everbearing raspberries, those canes won't make leaves (or berries) again. They are dead.

The canes that made fruit in the fall, on the other hand, will be your spring crop this year. Are you talking about cutting them out, and foregoing a spring crop in favor of (hopefully) production of more canes for this fall and next spring? Interesting concept.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 12:12AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

My understanding is that if you want a single, larger fall crop from everbearing raspberries you cut down all canes over winter. Which is what I did last winter (2011-12). So last summer/autumn I had raspberries borne on canes that had never flowered before. Now I am at the point of needing to cut down those canes if I want only a fall crop, but I have a secondary consideratiion, which is that I would like them to fill in better. So I am wondering will they fill in better if I cut them all back now or would they spread more if I let them be until next winter (2013-2014)?

If my dates are confusing, I consider that this is still this winter (2012-2013), and winter is confusing because it is the season when the date changes. Thanks and cheers!

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 10:45AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

It fell waaaaay off the first page and I'm still hoping for advice... :)

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 9:55AM
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Personally I would rather have a heavy fall crop, than 2 lighter crops in different season. I do a bit of canning and also make wine. Depends what you want I guess.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 2:13PM
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I hope the following helps answer your question...
I would recommend cutting them back, this will make them spread as they sprout from the root system. Yes, you are supposed to do this in fall/winter, but it should not matter since you won't be cutting the new growth if the plants are still dormant, only last year's canes.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 2:31PM
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ahajmano(sunset 23, Mission Viejo CA)

Interesting thing about raspberries... the vigor and new growth is proportional to:

1) the extent of the root system, and its ability to scavenge nutrients.

2) available initial leaves to aid in the "jump start" of new leaf production.

A balance between the two is best. If you prune too heavily, there is not enough photosynthesis to jump start vigorous new growth, and if you don't prune enough, the root system is proportionally small relative to the vegetation, also reducing vigor. Prune out the dead wood, and cut back the new wood by 1/3 to 1/2

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 2:46PM
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For me the early crop is higher quality and at a very welcome time so I can't imagine doing the mow and go method of pruning.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 1:29AM
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ONE of the reasons for the everbearing varieties in the first place is to simplify pruning. In other words, by having to be careful and selective with your pruning of everbearers, you have lost one of the advantages of these plants.

I see the point about an early crop being nice (why not use standard bearing plants for this?) but I wonder if the bit about quality is dependent on climate and the existence/elimination of a first crop since every pick-your-own operation I've been to here in NM grows everbearing types by the "mow and go" method.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 3:06PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I saw studies that show that fall crop only treatment, does not result in more berries. Actually having both crops did. But if you want more growth, I would cut down the cains that flowered. New cains will not have to compete against the old ones for root nutrients. If you want more berries this year, leave them! But cut them after summer harvest. I myself prefer more berries, but my plants have no problems suckering, they throw new plants off all the time. I thin them every year at this point. Too many new cains form, and are crowded. But each cultivar may act differently.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 11:31PM
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Raw_Nature(5 OH)

It makes sense to leave them and let them do their natural cycle.. The plant knows better than anyone how to get out the most seeds(fruit), it's future generations depends on it.. If you want one big harvest get the floricane(summer) bearing varieties that naturally only produce one crop.. Either way, raspberries are so easy to care for and you always end up with a crop...

Anyways... What do you guys space your raspberry/blackberries and how do you trellis them?


    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 11:43PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I have a new hedgerow to try out different cultivars. I will be spacing them close, as some might not make it, 2 ft apart. Most space 2-3 ft. The farther apart the longer to fill with suckers. They will fill unless black raspberries. Also I'm just trying out blackberries too. I have read 3-7 ft. Upright 3 ft trailing 6 ft is the average. Rows should be 12-24 inches wide. Any wider they become too dense, chance of disease from bad air circulation. My new hedgerow is in a raised bed, so dryer, and I can probably have them 24 inches wide. Some would say that is too wide.
Trellis varies I use electrical conduit steel poles, because they are cheaper, and meant to be outside. I do not do a T trellis, instead use 2 poles (10 ft in ground 4 ft) a side. I drill holes to attach wires, and use wire tightness too, just because I have them leftover from old grape trellis. For raspberries I have 2 wires on each at 2 ft, and 4 ft . For blackberries 3 ft and 5 ft. Only one pole a side, (not a T trellis) for blackberries.
But I'm not sure how well this will work out? We will see. My current raspberries do well with this spacing, and are not in raised beds. I like using 2 wires a pole to attach new cains to short wire, and 1 year cains to high wire. No mistaking what to remove after harvest. Do what works best for you, experiment etc. I may change my set ups depending on results.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 10:04AM
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Raw_Nature(5 OH)

You say " the farther apart they will sucker,unless black raspberry", black raspberries don't sucker?

"rows should be 12-24 inches, any wider and they become to dense", do you mean any narrower any they become to narrow... As in narrow walk paths?

I have 30 foot north/south rows and was going to have a row of raspberry canes spaced 3 foot and a row of blackberry canes spaced three foot, with walk path a foot or two.. For the trellis I don't see how the T would be better, seems like it take up more width.. I was just going to drive two t post in each end and run wire every foot so I can tie the canes off..

My plants should be coming in soon..
Blackberries - Darrow(12)
Raspberry- Cumberland,Latham, Durham - 3 of each

What do you guys think? Any advice?


    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 10:47AM
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Black raspberries don't sucker- they tip-layer. So, your Cumberland won't "fill in" unless you let canes grow to the ground last year.

My recollection is that Latham is summer-bearing, not fall-bearing. Unsure about Durham. Latham suckers vigorously.

I'm growing Autumn Bliss, a red which fruits on spring canes by early summer, then again very lightly in the Fall.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 2:09PM
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Raw_Nature(5 OH)

Eskita, thanks for you adivce, I appreciate it! Damn that sucks... I was hoping I would get the same varieties so I can prune the same... I didn't read between the lines, just seen a great deal... ill have to look into black raspberries...


    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 2:46PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Sorry I was so unclear. I think faster than I can write, so at times, my statements make little sense. I see the black raspberry question was answered, no they do not sucker. The farther you space red raspberries, the longer it will take to fill the space to form a solid row, but no matter how far, they will eventually fill the row. The 12 to 24 inch is not the space between the row, but how wide your planting should be, how wide the row should be. They grow in 4 directions, left, right, forward, backward. If your row is too wide, they tend to stay moist, which invites disease.

Yes, any trellis method works. You can modify to fit your needs if you need to.

Eskota mentioned Autumn Bliss. that was developed by Victoria Knight in the UK. I heard it was great! She also developed Valentina, an orange colored highly disease resistant, excellent tasting raspberry. Only sold in the UK, I would kill for a cutting!!

I'm trying a number of new cultivars this year

Double Gold - (planted last fall) Blush pink in color, excellent flavor
Crimson Night - (planted last fall) Deep, dark red, excellent flavor
this spring I will be adding...
Rosanna - (From Italy) sweet as candy
Honey Queen - ( a yellow out of Canada, very hardy, excellent taste)
Polka - (Developed in Poland, rated very high)

Black raspberries
Jewell - rich taste, 7 ft cains, productive and vigorous
Allen - sweetest of the blacks

Purple raspberries
Royality - can harvest when red, or wait till it's purple.

Summer bearing
Prelude - excellent early season variety
Encore - excellent late season variety
Taylor - said to be the best tasting raspberry

Navaho - upright thornless, great tasting, some say the best.
Apache - upright thornless, larger fruit than other Arkansas thornless, erect varieties.
Since these are upright, they will be trellised into a fan shape.

Loganberry - just because it is so unusual, 10 ft cains, unique flavor. Makes excellent jam, deep red
Tayberry - The Tayberry is a cane fruit cross between an Aurora Blackberry and an improved tetraploid Raspberry. It was developed by the Scottish Crop Research Institute and is grown for its sweeter, larger, aromatic fruits that have an excellent flavor. The Tayberry are a beautiful bright purple color

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 0:30

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 12:11AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I also will be trying a few others too
Himbo Top
Kiwi Gold

I don't expect to keep them all. Anne probably will be eliminated, burns easily, not as good as the nurseries say. I will try growing in partial shade to avoid burning.
I would like to try Cascade Gold, the only Yellow Summer bearing I ever heard of.
I already grow Fall Gold, and it has small 3 to 4 foot cains, not that productive, but has a fantastic apricot-raspberry flavor. A winner in my book!
I grow 3 or 4 other cultivars too. The Fall Gold stands out in taste! So I wanted to try some other yellows. I love cain fruits! I found room to add many more, so exactly what I will be doing. I will keep the best, throw out the rest.
Anybody ever wants to trade bare root suckers, let me know. I have Himbo Top available right now, well for a day. I will be plantiing them in 12 hours. Otherwise I can trade suckers next winter.
Rosanna is rare, and probably hard to grow, one I expect to have difficulty establishing. The others are very fine plants and I expect no difficulty. I'm sure I can dig up suckers, or tip layer new plants. Trade for same. Looking for Cascade Gold, Sweet Repeat, and Valentina, or any Victoria Knight cultivar but will take any not listed here.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 2:54

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 12:15AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

Thanks for those who answered my question about pruning for production of more canes! Well, and thanks for those who digressed, also, because I learned from that too. :)

Forgot to add, I'm not so worried about them breaking dormancy too fast now with this cold weather that has just been sitting on us for so long now.

This post was edited by sunnibel7 on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 11:13

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 11:11AM
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Currently growing Anne in a partially shaded area. Keeps them from burning. My son says it is his favorite raspberry. He goes out and hunts them down lol

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 5:15PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Excellent news on Anne, cool, I'll do the same. My other yellows have to go in full sun, I don't have another shady location.
Although my blueberries partially shade the full sun plot in places, maybe I will strategically place them behind the blueberry shadows. Kiwi Gold and Honey Queen.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 11:27PM
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Raw_Nature(5 OH)

That brings up a good question... I plan on having two rows running north/south one row blackberries, one row raspberry... There is a garage southwest of them witch shades one row out.. The closest row to the garage gets 3-4 hours roughly.. The row further away gets 5-6 hours.. Which row should I plant raspberries? Which row for blackberrys? Basically which ones most tolerant to shade?


    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 1:00AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I think they both can take a little shade, but probably raspberries more. Blackberries will stop flowering if too shaded, I never heard of raspberries doing that. As stated above Anne tends to burn and is best in some shade. I hope the other yellows are not as sensitive.
Double Gold is another that is actually translucent pink, coolest looking berry yet. Eight years in testing, developed by Cornell. test test winner too! Resistant to Phytophthora root rot as well as most of the common leaf diseases."

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 9:45AM
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