Orange Raspberries???

fruitful412April 24, 2014

Has anyone ever seen orange raspberries? I have one growing in my garden. I do have a mixture of all different kinds, and this one just sort of came by itself, in my vegetable bed, actually, not even close to the berry patch. It doesn't behave like any raspberry I have. It tastes like a black, but it bears on both floricanes and primocanes, and it tip roots without suckering. The only thing I can think of is that it's a cross between an everbearing red (I have Carolines) and a wild yellow, which are derived from the blacks, native to Pennsylvania around these parts. I have been trying to propagate wild yellows for several years with no success. The picture is from last year. The canes were bright yellow in the fall and currently now that they are growing again.

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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

In the UK they sell Valentina, an orange. It could be a sport of a black, sometimes they are all white too. Cool though!
I just added a primocane fruiting black. Niwot is the cultivar.
Looks like a keeper to me! I really want an orange! I wish they sold Valentina here!

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 10:00PM
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edweather(Zone 5a/b Central NY)

They look a lot like the wild yellow ones around here. Super sweet too.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 12:43AM
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tyler_j(6a)

They are a mutated version of the black raspberry (blackcap). We've always called them yellowcaps and they've grown on our property all my life. I like them better than the black ones :)

My pics are in this thread below

EDIT-- I missed where you said it bears on both primocane and floricane. Are you positive on that? My yellowcaps only spread by tip rooting so if yours does the same but bears 2 crops thats very interesting!

Here is a link that might be useful: Yellowcaps

This post was edited by tyler_j on Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 8:20

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 7:04AM
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shane11

The variety 'kiwigold' is an orange colored raspberry.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 1:32PM
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fruitful412

These are not yellowcaps. I have been collecting a lot of yellowcaps in the wild, and these are bright orange, only light yellow when they first come out, as a few in the picture are doing. After the orange, if you leave them on, they turn to a lovely light brown and get very sweet at that stage. And yes, they fruited twice last year, once in the spring and an even bigger crop in late summer. That's when I took the picture, as you can see the full-headed broccoli in the background. Those berries are on the primocanes. Also notice the spikes on the fruit stalks, which I've never seen on any other raspberry. I love the wild yellow ones and I wish I could get some to grow in my garden. When this one came up I had high hopes it would be a yellow, but when they started to turn orange it amazed me. And as I mentioned, the canes are bright yellow, too. I raise both Anne and Fallgold, so I do know yellow berries. Also Double Gold, which is a salmon-colored berry. These are nothing like any of those.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 7:03PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

If you look through the USDA seed preserve you will find many orange examples. You can even find orange blackberries.
I still want a Valentina!! Here's a photo...

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 23:58

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:54PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I know the USDA has been looking at anthocyanin deficiencies in black raspberries. They would probably be interested in seeds. Having these deficient types helps them identify the genes that cause it.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:08AM
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tyler_j(6a)

Hi Fruitful,

It sounds like you have quite a collection of brambles :)

if you want to have the wild yellows in your garden the easiest way to propagate them is to bury a tip a couple inches in august or september and then dig that tip up next spring. They root very easily as soon as those tips come in contact with the ground. If you go check out the patch you gather from there will likely be tips ready to dig up right now. I also grow them from seed quite easily also if you collect some berries this year. They just need some scarification with some hydrogen peroxide to start the germination. Though they do say not to plant black raspberry near other brambles due to disease spread.

Is the taste more like a yellow raspberry or more similar to the wild yellow?

It sounds like you have a very unique berry there! If you are interested in Burbank's pure white blackberry I'd be interested in a trade? Or I could send you some wild yellowcaps also.

Tyler

This post was edited by tyler_j on Sat, Apr 26, 14 at 8:06

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 7:01AM
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berry_bob

dang those are neat , now I want some ;)

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 8:50AM
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mrsg47(7)

Drew, if you can get seeds will they grow true to Valentina? Mrs. G

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 11:00AM
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spartan-apple

When I was a boy growing up in SE WI, my brother and I picked wild black raspberries and sold them. We usually
earned 75 cents a pint. While black raspberries were plentiful in the open hickory/oak forests, we also came across some yellow/orange raspberries.

The yellow/orange ones were my favorite! Those we did not sell as they were not common. We never shared those
spots with anyone! Sadly the whole woods is now a giant subdivision. So much for boyhood memories.

I do not grow yellow raspberries but I did plant some Jewel
black raspberries last year. They are looking mighty good
this spring. Hoping for a decent crop.

Everyone I know who grew the commercial yellow types said the flavor was good but the yield is poor. I did not realize the yellow ones are a sport of black raspberry. Makes sense as we found them in the wild with the blacks.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 11:49AM
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tyler_j(6a)

Fruitful... you mentioned the thorny berry stock... here is a picture of my yellowcap (still green fruit). It looks quite similar to yours with the thorns. That and the berry shape I'd say you have a cross with the wild yellowcap there.
Tyler

Here are my ripe yellowcaps


    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 1:16PM
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berry_bob

Tyler Where can I buy a couple of them canes ?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:06PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Bob I've never seen them for sale anywhere.. but if you want to email me I could send you some seeds if you like?

Tyler

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:27PM
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berry_bob

Email sent
,, Thank You

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:37PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"Drew, if you can get seeds will they grow true to Valentina? Mrs. G"

Well some would, you could get possible cross pollination, but they are self fruitful, so a good chance some of the seeds would be true. Big problem is growing from seed. I have tried and failed so far. I talked to a raspberry breeder, and he said scarification has to be done with sulfuric acid, and then a long stratification where the seeds remain wet.
I'm going to try next winter. I got step by step instructions from the breeder of the Niwot raspberry, Pete Tallman. How he does it.
He also gave me instruction on how to hand pollinate berries. Nice guy! He just underwent a hip replacement, hope he is ok?

Anyway I don't have seeds to Valentina. I have some other Rubus seeds I want to grow. I failed this spring to germinate any, have some left, will follow Pete's protocol.
I have sulfuric acid I use for my blueberries.
I would certianly be interested in seeds, and have no problems sending seedlings to people who send me seeds, or anybody who wants the plant.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 6:42PM
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fruitful412

Tyler

They sure look like mine. I just wish I knew where the cross came from, as I haven't seen a wild yellow anywhere near me. When I used to pick mine in the wild, I lived about 20 miles away from where I am now, and when I went back there last year I didn't find a single raspberry of any kind left. The power company sprayed and took them all down. I have a difficult time finding any wild raspberries where I live now, as there are no woods. I live in farm country, and all we have around are fields of corn and soybeans. I find a lot of wineberries in the hedgerows, but no raspberries. That's why I grow my own. I do have wild black raspberries in the front, but all my cultivated ones are in the rear. Wild ones still make the best wine. Are your orange berries everbearing?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 7:21PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Fruitful,

They could be a cross with one of your yellow raspberries with your black raspberry. How different do they taste compared to yellowcaps?

No mine produce berries on 2nd year canes just like the black raspberry. If you are interested in some seed let me know. wtj1971@hotmail.com

Tyler

Drew I've also had good luck using hydrogen peroxide for scarification of raspberry seed.

This post was edited by tyler_j on Sat, Apr 26, 14 at 19:50

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 7:36PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"I did not realize the yellow ones are a sport of black raspberry"

Spartan, they are not! Most yellows sold commercially are sports of reds. Kiwi-Gold is a sport of Heritage.
Also my Kiwi Gold and Fall Gold are awesome producers. I get about 100 berries per cane. Anne is one that is a light producer. I also have 2 summer bearing yellows, Honey Queen, and Cascade Gold. They don't appear to be light producers. Cascade Gold produces canes like blackberries produce canes. Biggest things I ever saw! I'm waiting on my first crop from these two.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sun, Apr 27, 14 at 4:08

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 4:07AM
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swaine

Hstratyler J sent me some seeds to the uk a fair few years ago from his yellowcaps, the fruiting colours of the seedlings varied greatly from whites, thru yellows, to the strange copper coloured berries pictured centre, best wishes stew

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 9:54AM
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swaine

valentina pictured with some other raspberries

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 9:58AM
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tyler_j(6a)

HI Stew.... glad they grew for you :)

Tyler

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 9:59AM
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swaine

Hi Tyler, many many thanks they did, this year I have some seedlings from the adult plants I grew from the seeds you sent me, so im hoping for some more interesting colours from your line, I had a very pale yellow/white but lost it to vine weevil, I grow all my American and Canadian plants in a polytunnel for extra care due to rarity in the uk, so an outbreak of vine weevils in some pots made me lose a few plants, , best wishes stew

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 12:03PM
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fruitful412

Drew, you commented that yellows are sports of reds not blacks, but around here in PA we don't have reds as natives, only blacks, and we have yellows, so they can't come from reds. Besides, the wild yellows taste like the wild blacks, only sweeter, without that perfume-like quality that reds have.

And last year my Annes outproduced any of my other berries, no matter what color.

Swaine, those ones in the center of your hand look just like mine. They are bright orange to start, turning to a copper when really sweet.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 12:25PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Fruitful, what Drew was meaning was the commercially available yellow raspberry (ie fallgold, kiwi gold, anne, etc) are all part of the "Rubus idaeus" family and are from the same line as the common red raspberry (Heritage, Caroline, etc.). The wild yellow.. or yellowcap is a sport of the black raspberry which is a "Rubus occidentalis"

Thats why yours is intriguing because it might be a cross of a wild black raspberry and a common yellow as it has the fruit appearance and tip rooting characteristics of the black raspberry but also has the colour and everbearing characteristics of the commercial yellow.

So propagate the heck out of that plant lol! :)

The yellowcaps in my pictures would have turned darker also had I waited longer to pick them.... more crimson/copper but I usually pick them too early because I can't wait lol.

Tyler

This post was edited by tyler_j on Sun, Apr 27, 14 at 13:38

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 1:04PM
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edweather(Zone 5a/b Central NY)

Here's a photo of the wild yellowcaps that grow around here. There aren't that many, but they are super sweet.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 2:41PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Fruitful.... maybe you could post more pics as it grows this year so it can be compared to the wild yellowcap. I would be interested to see a picture of the cane and leaves.

Tyler

    Bookmark   May 4, 2014 at 3:39PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Hi Fruitful412......that orange raspberry must be fruiting soon is it??? If you ever have some extra seed from that one I would be very interested in trading with you?? :)

Tyler

wtj1971@hotmail.com

    Bookmark   June 2, 2014 at 9:13PM
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berry_bob

no luck yet on them seeds Tyler

    Bookmark   June 3, 2014 at 8:16PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Yeah me either, but I'll try another round in different media.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2014 at 8:46PM
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dtunesgw

Hey Folks, I have those as well. I have a huge patch of wild black raspberries in my back yard. In one area they're a light yellow/orange, sometimes with red speckles. As far as I can tell, the rest of the plant looks like the black ones. They do taste different, very sweet and sugary. They lack some of black's tang but are equally good in their own way. I want to try to propagate the yellow ones in another spot to prevent them from being over taken by the regular ones. I got to eat a few of the first ripe ones today, until my kids found them of course.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2014 at 10:44PM
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berry_bob

Dtunes , tip root them into pots or wait till fall and dig some up . I need to get more seeds and try them again :)

    Bookmark   July 5, 2014 at 10:49PM
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berry_bob

Dtunes would you be interested in sending me a couple dried berries ?

    Bookmark   July 6, 2014 at 12:35PM
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dtunesgw

Absolutely berry_Bob. Any particular steps I should take to ensure they're dried properly and viable? I don't know much about raspberry genetics but the yellow ones are growing all around the normal black raspberries, I don't know if the seeds will be true or not. Regardless I'll send you some.

Here's a pic a took today of some of the yellow/orange ones. They're a little behind the black raspberries in ripening.

I'll try to root some as well and hopefully I can start up a new patch away from the black raspberries next year.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2014 at 4:56PM
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berry_bob

Thank You
here is what I found on the web

Place them in a food processor with a little water and pulse it until a juicy pulp forms.
Empty the mushy fruit into a mesh strainer over a sink. Push the fruit through the strainer. Spray the remaining pulp with water until only clean seeds are left in the strainer.
Place the seeds on a clean paper towel and let them sit until they are dry
I'm not sure you need the food processor , just mash and rinse then dry .
My email is in my profile I believe

    Bookmark   July 6, 2014 at 5:51PM
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dtunesgw

Thanks, I'll let you know when the seeds are ready to be sent.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2014 at 10:48PM
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tyler_j(6a)

Hey Drew & Bob... the batch of seed that I sent you guys a few months ago are just now sprouting for me. I guess I should have given them longer warm stratification before refrigerating them last fall. Just an fyi in case you still have them potted.

Tyler

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 2:46PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Tyler,

I did get some to sprout too, but they died I'm afraid. Starting over...

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 7:58PM
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berry_bob

I will have to check the sand and see if its dried out now , I gave up on them a week or so ago

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 8:32PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

I have found Valentina at Hartmann's but it says it only grows to 5", This does not sound like the Valentina that is in the U.K., does it?

In the U.K.:
http://www.rwwalpole.co.uk/valentina.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Valentina

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 11:31PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

That one is a ground cover, same name. So no, not the same plant.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 11:51PM
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