Bronz

Maggie4(4-5)June 22, 2005

Have been makeing Concrete leaves. Fun, fun, fun, I have painted them as well as stained. Just used what I have with all the left over paints. Mixing is fun. You never know what color you'll get. Well, you do but it's still fun. Just remember the all the art classes you've had.

Anyway , I was wondering if anyone has used anything or remembered how to bronze. I wanted to try to do this to one huge leaf. Trying to get concrete to look like metal might be difficult but..... it is worth a try, isn't it?

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rickharmer(z4British Colum)

My wife and I are trying the paints from Modern Masters,to do the patina.these paints contain metallic particles,but are water-based.Tried the copper so far-looks good!We're also trying the iron/rust combo.As our products will be outside,a sealer is also needed.
You can check them out at www.modernmastersinc.com
cheers

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 11:41AM
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leigh_wi(Z5 WI)

Rick,
Thanks for that link! This looks like cool stuff, did you use the primer they offer or skip it 'cause your substrate is cement based?
Leigh

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 1:25PM
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rickharmer(z4British Colum)

We had so many leftover paints from our construction,we 're using it up.The contact at Benjamin Moore(our local store is getting into this metallic look and we're the only crafters using cement)said to use any good quality paint as primer.Looks OK so far,my wife is doing the iron/rust look.We'll post pics when she's done.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 2:10PM
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mikitoo

I've used "modern masters" copper paint quite a bit on my projects and like the way it gives a metallic look.'
This is a birdbath I made last year using it. Mikitoo

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 4:32PM
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rickharmer(z4British Colum)

Mikitoo-I notice that your project is outside and appears to have the patina coating.Did you seal it with the recommended product or did you use another sealer.Thanks for your answer 'cause my wife would REALLY like to know!
chhers

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 4:51PM
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Maggie4(4-5)

Mikitoo,
I would also like to know how you did this. The blue in the leaves? Is that oxidation? Did you overcoat on the birdbath?
Thanks,Maggie

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 5:59PM
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mikitoo

Yes Rick and Maggie. I rubbed Modern Masters Green patina aging solution over the copper painted leaf.
It has now been out in the elements for two winters and is showing a bit of wear. The patina is still showing but the copper has lost a lot of shine. No problem really, I'll just rub it over with copper paint again. I didn't seal anything. Just went and took a photo now, showing its age.

That patina works very well on real copper too. I had a bird feeder made of genuine copper about 4 years ago and painted it with this product. After Lots of rain and some snow it is still green

I'm a fan of Benjamin Moore too. They sell little latex eggshell colour testers for about $4. I paint my concrete with Rust and then rub black over it to get an aged stone look.
Regards, Mikitoo

    Bookmark   June 22, 2005 at 7:35PM
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Maggie4(4-5)

Went shopping this morning found some Bronze water based paint. I didn't want to drive 100 miles to a BM store so I bought it. It says it is weather resistant . Hoping for the best untill We get to BM. Anyway... used a little over a green multi colored leaf. Had to try something. Wow! I encourage you to try it. TEmps are over 90 so I am limited for while but I'm going to try it over a boughted bird bath. Should work, shouldn't it? Very happy!

    Bookmark   June 23, 2005 at 5:21PM
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copperfish(Zone 9, Texas)

I LOVE this look. It's just what I've been dreaming about and I hope, ihope ihope I can find some. Thanks .. it is just beautiful.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2005 at 5:37PM
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susan6(z6a)

I used a product called Sculpt Neuveau that was developed to "bronze" life casts. It comes in 3 formulas, and "B" is the one I ordered. The Patina is accomplished using some leftover patina from a stained glass project. They sent a free jar or black wax to protect and shine the finished sculpture. Bought it online.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2005 at 9:17AM
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Maggie4(4-5)

Thanks,
I knew this post would spark life.
suean6, did you make your lady. It's beautiful!
Don't know if my old hands could do that anymore but....in school I did make statues. Even went to the Chicago Art In. when I was a teenager. If you made her did you use Clay and did you fire her? She is so thin I'm thinking you used a wire frame?

    Bookmark   June 24, 2005 at 1:00PM
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paws4pets

susan6-I forgot about your beautiful lady. Outstanding.
Paws

    Bookmark   June 24, 2005 at 3:01PM
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susan6(z6a)

Yes, I made her using fiber cement as an experiment. I was also experimenting with using an armature (3/8" steel rods from HD along with a couple of gauges of steel wire). More difficult than sculpting with clay, but it's weatherproof. Still want to try the white portland/bronze wool mixture to make a sculpture but have to finish the gardening first (and then there's the wedding dress to hem and the bedroom window treatments to finish...)

    Bookmark   June 25, 2005 at 4:06PM
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kobold(Vancouver BC)

susan6- your sculpture is just gorgeous! What do you think, the paint would work on old concrete statue?

Andrea

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 12:10AM
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rustinj(z7 AL)

Mikitoo, your birdbath is fantastic! The closeup looks like copper in wood. Thanks for sharing the info!

Susan, I would really like to hear more about your fiber cement technique! I googled it immediately after seeing your sculpture in an earlier post, but I'm still a bit confused about the recipe and how you work it.

Justin

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 1:40AM
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HowieDoin

Justin, until Susan gets a chance to answer you, I've posted her previous post on her work and she explains things there:

Here is a link that might be useful: Susan't Fiber Cement recipe

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 3:33AM
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susan6(z6a)

Andrea, it would be perfect on old concrete...just make sure it's dry.

Don't want to hijack this thread, but a couple of details about the fiber cement:

Pull the steel wool into thin strips from around a 6" piece, opening it out into a single layer to make it easier to incorporate into the cement. Use "0" rather than very fine steel wool or it will knot up, Olson says. He recommends fine bronze wool. Make your thin slurry of portland and water and lay the dry strips of steel wool in them to completely saturate. Knead them, adding additional water and cement if needed until you achieve a uniform "claylike" mix. You can mound it without an armature, but to add successive layers he recommends wrapping steel wire around the form and then working the next layer of fibercement into this wire for strenth. Force it under and between the wire with your fingers and then smooth the top. The trickiest part is finding the exact time that's best for final shaping. It can't be too damp or it crumbles. If it's too dry it won't cut. You can cut it with an old paring knife (I wasn't very successful with this), or you can use various & sundry tools to scrape, sand and otherwise remove material.

Olson shows pictorial how-to's as well as gives on-line sources for all sorts of materials.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 12:09PM
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rustinj(z7 AL)

HowieDoin, Thanks. I guess I'm just confused about how you mix steel wool and cement? I think of steel wool as little scrup pads, but maybe you can get it as very thin sheets?

J

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 12:12PM
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HowieDoin

Justin, again I'd have to let Susan answer but I guess I'm thinking of the recipe that Sherri Warner Hunter has in her concrete ornament book (I'm sure you know which one I'm speaking of, don't you?). She has a fiber cement recipe that has steel wool in it. I think you pull it apart, maybe shred it up some, and supposedly it gives you a somewhat clay consistency. I haven't done it yet though.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 4:38PM
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rustinj(z7 AL)

HowieDoin, Thanks! I must have glossed over that part of the book :) Now I'm going to have to look it up. It sure sounds like a lot of work but, if I could make something like that for my mom, I'd be the good son again :-)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 4:45PM
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GardenChicken(AB3b)

Thanks Howie for pointing out the recipe in the SWH book, like rustinj I also overlooked it! It looks like Mix #11. Cool. One more thing to try!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 8:20PM
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tufaenough

STAINLESS STEEL WOOL.
Not the cheap stuff.:)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 10:13PM
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rustinj(z7 AL)

HA! Now I get it :)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 10:32PM
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tufaenough

You don't want it rustin. :)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2005 at 11:30PM
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Maggie4(4-5)

Post all you want. This is very interesting and I'll try it as well as get the book.
Thanks

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 9:55AM
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tufaenough

Maggie I think the recipe also calls for Silica Fume and Super Plasticizer.
Both can be difficult to find.
I have to buy them from a bulk plant.
Then getting just the right amount of both in a recipe is daunting.
A very small amount of each goes a long way or you end up with soup.:)

I think however you can buy this recipe as a premix from a well stocked art store.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 10:46AM
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rickharmer(z4British Colum)

You can get superplasticizer in small bags,in powder form,from Universal Concrete,in Burnaby.They also have it in larger bags,and liquid as well.The ratio noted on the bag is around 8-12 oz per 100 LBS of cement!So,a small bag goes a long way.I regularly mix 12.5 lbs of cement for my regular size mixes.I put in just over an ounce of SP.The bag is,I believe,a kilogram,so a long time will it last.
Cheers

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 12:12PM
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rustinj(z7 AL)

Susan, thanks for the detailed description...you posted just before I did, so I must have missed it the first time through.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 1:14PM
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susan6(z6a)

Olson didn't mention the stainless steel wool! Geez, guess I'm glad the regular steel wool didn't rust. He also uses regular steel wire, not stainless. It's not really that hard to make the mix. I did it in the basement and had a bowl of portland and water handy. It was easier to make up small batches because kneading the mix to incorporate the steel wool seems like it would be difficult with very large amounts. I think I forgot to mention an important part of adding on to the original batch. MAKE A SLURRY OF PORTLAND AND WATER; PAINT OVER OLD WORK BEFORE ADDING WET MIX. ALTERNATIVE: I used a premixed Quickcrete concrete bonding solution instead which worked well. I did not go with the fancy formulas with all the extra additions. Olson's formulas are more basic and it was his sculptures that captured my imagination in the other artist's book.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 3:06PM
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tufaenough

Susan if water can't get to it can't rust.
I'm not sure what rusting steel wool would do anyway.
Rust is normally bad because it can cause spalling and blow concrete apart.
It does this be cause rust is to steel like ice is to water in one regard.
Rust requires more room than the steel it replaces and the pressure cracks the cement. It 'explodes' from the inside.
But steel wool is so fine even rusted it isn't going to expand that much. It might however weaken the structure.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2005 at 5:57PM
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