Monterey fungi fighter - days to harvest?

lsohJune 11, 2013

How long should I wait between applying monterey fungi fighter and harvest? For plums? For Cherries?

Sorry, I've read the bottle's label and searched the online pdf for key words, but I can't find it. Maybe it's a phrase that I don't recognize?

thanks

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alan haigh

Read the label, that info is always there. I believe it is legal to spray up into harvest but most stonefruit seem to do fine if I stop spraying a month before or sooner. Cherries are the exception in rainy weather and often need spray right up into about a week before harvest. A little fungicide for breakfast is probably good for you.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 5:33AM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

I looked at the electronic label and couldn't find the PHI either.

The only possibility that it would be omitted that I can think of is that, since it has a 0 PHI and a homeowner formulation, the PHI wouldn't be relevant and would perhaps confuse some homeowners.

I use the equivalent propiconazole (Bumper) and it has a 0 PHI. However, I don't spray it up to harvest on peaches, as I can't see any reason for it.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 9:44PM
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alan haigh

Olpea sets me straight again. Not used to home owner labels and I'm surprised the requirements are not as strict.

I believe commercial growers keep spraying so fruit will less likely rot during shipping and on shelf.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 11:35AM
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lsoh

Thanks for your help. The folks at gardenweb are very helpful.

FYI. I sent an email to monterey customer service asking the same question. Didn't get a response.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2013 at 10:50PM
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Anatoli99

When mixing moterrey fungus fighter to water is it a good idea to add vinigar aswell?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 1:43PM
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garedneck

The label on my bottle indicates it is only to be sprayed on non-bearing fruit and nut trees which they further explain as meaning fruit not to be harvested for at least one year after application.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 9:54PM
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rweissman

According to this label it is fine for use on fruiting trees. It doesn't list a PHI, but it does say harmful if swallowed, so I wonder if it really could have a zero PHI.

Here is a link that might be useful: Label

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 12:31AM
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sharppa(6)

I was searching for this today and ran across this thread. This fungicide which uses the same active ingredient lists a 3 day PHI. See link below.

http://www.syngentafarm.ca/pdf/Labels/TOPAS_30163_en_pamphlet.pdf

I found it by searching for "Propiconazole phi"

    Bookmark   June 11, 2014 at 1:03PM
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lsoh

Thanks

    Bookmark   June 11, 2014 at 2:42PM
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mes111(5b -Purling NY & 7b -Nassau County NY)

I read the label and came away with a question.

Why would you NOT apply during a "dead calm"?

One would suspect that no wind would avoid unwanted drift.

Mike

    Bookmark   June 11, 2014 at 5:57PM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Mike,

It's not recommended to spray during dead calm because the pesticide can form a "cloud" which hangs together and slowly drifts off the target location. At least that's the concern with an airblast sprayer. A small amount of wind will prevent it.

With a small wand sprayer, the droplets are so large, I don't think you could get cloud formation.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2014 at 12:22AM
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mes111(5b -Purling NY & 7b -Nassau County NY)

Olpea:

Thanx

Any day you learn something new is a good day.

Mike

    Bookmark   June 12, 2014 at 7:39AM
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danzeb(7a long island)

i have no experience using Monterey but from reading it seems like a very useful product. Like all insecticides and fungicides caution should be used.

Monterey (Propiconazole 1.55%) says:
"Absorbed into the plant. CanâÂÂt be washed off by rain
after spray has dried. Works up to 4 weeks for certain diseases."
So whatever is sprayed on fruit some of it will still be there at least 4 week later.

The label also says: "If on skin - Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15-20 minutes."

The Topas Fungicide, a commercial product says for blueberries:
"LAST APPLICATION MUST BE MADE PRIOR TO 60 DAYS BEFORE HARVEST (60 day PHI)."

For Peaches, Plums, Cherries, etc is says:
"DO NOT APPLY WITHIN 3 DAYS OF HARVEST (3 day PHI). DO NOT REENTER TREATED AREAS WITHIN 3 DAYS OF APPLICATION (3 day REI)."

The above is for multiple applications and I assume higher concentrations than a home gardener would use. I have no idea why the stone fruit and blueberry PHI is so different.

If I was using Propiconazole I would read the label very carefully and realize that the product is absorbed into the plant and can not be washed of.

A one page discussion of toxicity is here:

Here is a link that might be useful: Toxipedia

    Bookmark   June 12, 2014 at 12:20PM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Topas is a Canadian fungicide subject to Canada's rules. In the U.S. propiconazole has a 0 PHI for stone fruits.

I don't know why Canada has a longer PHI for the same compound. I notice the Maximum Residue Level for Canada is basically the same for propiconazole as it is in the U.S.

For blueberries, it's 1ppm for both U.S. and CAN.

For cherries (both sweet and tart) it's 4ppm for U.S. and CAN. For peach it's 4ppm (U.S. and CAN). Interestingly, the U.S. has a lower Max. residue level for plums than CAN. 0.6ppm for U.S. vs. 4ppm for CAN.

What this means is that if the label is followed the fruit will be below the max. residue level. When a compound is registered with the EPA, it goes through extensive testing to determine what PHI is required to be in compliance with the Max. residue level.

My only guess why Canada has a longer PHI for this compound than the U.S. when the Max. residue levels are the same is because perhaps Canada allows more of the compound to be sprayed on the trees. But that's just a guess, I haven't run the numbers.

In the U.S., the label indicates Montery Fungi Fighter is allowed at a higher rate on home fruit trees than allowed in commercial orchards.

It is true propiconazole is transported systemically in the plant, but plants also metabolize the compound, breaking it down in the process.

Although Monterey claims it works up to 4 weeks for some diseases, that doesn't mean the residue lasts that long in the fruit at any significant level. Some diseases are effectively controlled by key timing of the application, thereby offering much longer control even after the residue is gone. Scab and cedar/apple rust would be examples of this. Good control during spore ejection will provide season long protection against these diseases, even though there is no longer any fungicide residue on the fruit.

The Toxipedia link on propiconazole indicated liver tumors were found in mice fed a dose as low as (emphasis added) 3.6mg/kg per day. To put that in perspective, one would have to eat the equivalent of their body weight in fruit every day to get that level of exposure.

For the skeletal deformations mentioned in new born pups one would have to consume about 8 times their body weight in fruit per day for that level of exposure (over 1000 lbs. of fruit per day for most people).

While it's a good idea to wash off any pesticide which comes into direct contact with skin, I wouldn't be overly fearful of propiconazole. The EC report (referenced in Toxipedia) indicated human volunteers tested epicutaneous doses up to 1% (about the same concentration of Montery Fungi Fighter concentrate) which caused no dermal reactions (or presumably any other symptoms) in any of the test subjects.

Overall I think propiconazole is a fairly safe compound and offers a good solution for home growers battling brown rot in humid climates.

This post was edited by olpea on Fri, Jun 13, 14 at 1:40

    Bookmark   June 13, 2014 at 1:38AM
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mamuang_gw

Olpea,

Thank you very much again for your input.

After 5 years, my sweet cherry shows more signs of brown rot. If my peaches get more this year,too, it's time for MFF.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2014 at 6:27AM
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iowajer

I also really appreciate you taking the time to explain this Olpea.

I've been checking this thread since it started, given that this is the product that I've been using every year since my bout with BR a few years ago when the pros here pointed me to MFF as a rescue for my cherries.

So I'm a tad less anxious just now..., Thanks again!

    Bookmark   June 13, 2014 at 9:18AM
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iowajer

Help Olpea!!! I went and got my self all confused again!

OK, so here's where I'm at........

We've had rain, rain, and more rain. My Early Richmond tart cherry tree had shown limited signs of BR starting at around petal fall if I remember right, so I hit it with some Bonide Infuse. That's got the same active ingredient (Propiconazole) as Monterey Fungi-Fighter at the same concentration 1.55%

I ran out of it so I had to get more, and this time I got some from ferti.lome, but again it was the same 1.55%

Well my ER cherries have maybe 1/5 of the tree ready to pick, but between being beat up by high winds, bird hits, and BR, the quality isn't what I'd like. I went out to pick a little bit this morning and seemed like the BR had progressed, so out of BR frustration, I gave it another dose today thinking 0-3 PHI..., I can do this.

So I come back in here and was re-reading this thread and saw where you'd indicated that you use Bumper, so I went out to that label and unless I was on a different label it looked like a much higher concentration, so then I went out to look at the Topaz label that was mentioned here as well, and it was like 41.8% and yet it still showed 0-PHI.

I called ferti.lome and the guy was unaware it was even labeled for stone fruits, and said he would not recommend I eat the cherries this year, but if I did to wait as long as I could.

So I called Monterey, the gal is like "..ummm lemme go check..., because you want to eat the cherries right"? She returns and says "21 days, don't eat 'em until 21 days is passed"

I have to admit that I don't have a ton of confidence in either of the contacts I spoke with, and I have also placed a call in to Bonide and am still awaiting a call back.

But my question is this: If the stuff I'm using is 1.55% Propiconazole and all three companies - Bonide, MFF, & ferti.lome won't put a PHI on the label (which I understand could even mean 0 PHI) and yet over the phone their CS Reps can't recommend consuming the cherries either before 21 days has passed, if at all...

But isn't the stuff I'm using waaaay less of active ingredient than what either Bumper OR Topaz has?

Is there a reason that the products with the seemingly much higher concentration level have no problems printing 0 PHI while the three using 1.55% are shrouded in mystery?

I think you probably have a much more understandable way of educating us non-pros than the customer service reps from the companies....

Thanks in advance!!

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 5:47PM
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iowajer

I'm kinda bumping this in hopes that it doesn't get buried... I think I'm just needing a warm and fuzzy - some reassurance that everything's gonna be just fine...

    Bookmark   June 24, 2014 at 7:59AM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Hi iowajer,

Generally more concentrated concentrates will have roughly the same amount of active ingredient in a finished spray as the less concentrated concentrate (assuming both are used to mix full dilute sprays) although there can be some variance in the finished spray b/t homeowner finished sprays and commercial finished sprays.

What I mean is that a more concentrated concentrate (like Bumper) will use much less of the concentrate to make a finished spray than the Bonide product you mention, so that they both have about the same amount of active ingredient in the finished spray.

An extreme example would be glyphosate (Round Up). At one time Monsanto was able to make a powdered form of glyphosate which was extremely concentrated and compact. One very small box cost $2500 and would treat acres and acres. Literally, theses small boxes of glyphosate were worth more than gold on a per weight basis. As such, they were stolen off the shelves, and from the elevators/farm stores in general, as if they were gold. It was such a problem, Monstanto quit making the super concentrated powder form, or at least elevators quit offering it.

To your question, your cherries will be fine to eat. The people you are talking to don't know the answer to your question. They are just guessing. Ultimately, the label is the law. If there is no PHI on the label, there is no PHI. Your cherries are completely safe to eat.

This post was edited by olpea on Tue, Jun 24, 14 at 9:18

    Bookmark   June 24, 2014 at 9:10AM
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iowajer

Thanks for taking the time to re-address this for me Olpea, I really do appreciate it very much.

I'm breathing a big sigh of relief!!!

Pretty interesting timing too, as I just now got my call-back from Bonide.

The gal said she was returning my call concerning spraying of Infuse on Cherry trees, and that unfortunately there seems to have been some confusion with the label, but that it is not to be used on edible bearing fruit trees, only non-bearing fruit trees.
Sorry for the confusion, etc.

Of course I don't know enough to carry on an intelligent conversation about it with her on this deal, so I just thanked her and said good bye.

Once off the phone though I got to thinking, I wonder if they really do think the label is wrong in listing bearing fruit trees, if they'll do a recall and correct that.....?

(And of course, if their label is wrong so is a lot of other companies that say the same thing)

Anyway, thanks again!!!

    Bookmark   June 24, 2014 at 1:18PM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

Iowajer,

The gal you were talking to is wrong, not the label. Companies spend millions of dollars in testing to get their labels approved. The EPA goes through an extensive review process to approve the labels.

The folks who actually worked on the labeling of your propiconazole formulation are so far removed from the sales people you are talking to, there is a complete disconnect.

Is this lady going to also claim Monterey Fungi Fighter, Bonide and Fertilome are all unapproved for stone fruits. Ridiculous.

Propiconazole is approved for various stone fruits, is safe to use, and if used according to label has a zero PHI in the U.S.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2014 at 12:39AM
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danzeb(7a long island)

Seems to be very dependent on what type of tree gets sprayed. Monterey label says don't use on "Stanley type" plums. Use on non-bearing apples and no mention of bearing apples. if applied to crab apples don't eat them.
No restrictions on other stone fruits such as cherries and peaches. Seems odd to me that cherries can be sprayed and eaten the same day but only use on non-bearing apples and if crab apples get sprayed don't eat them.

I would like to know the details of the scientific study that wasdone to come up with these recommendations.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2014 at 4:06PM
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olpea(zone 6 KS)

The EPA methodology for labeling can be quite complex. You can read some REDs to get a small sample of it. If memory serves, last I read it cost more than $50 mil to register a pesticide with the EPA due to various testing.

For labeling, the EPA looks at how much fruit is expected to be consumed, how it is handled, is it used to make baby food (or juice for babies) etc.

In the end, it can make for what seems like a confusing label.

It's not at all uncommon for different fruits to have different PHIs for a given pesticide. Chlorothalonil can't be used after shuck split on peaches, but has a zero PHI on tomatoes.

For years Guthion could be used on apples and cherries, but not on peaches. It has since been phased out.

Permethrin can't be used after bloom on apples, but has a 2 week PHI on peaches.

Some labels have a zero PHI, but have a 12 or 24 hr. re-entry interval (REI) which technically means one could conceivably eat the fruit right after it was sprayed, but would be against label to enter the field to pick the fruit. Fruit could be machine harvested and still be in compliance w/ the label.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2014 at 12:01AM
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iowajer

OK, so yesterday I was on my riding mower and when I got all done I checked my phone and saw I had a missed call. The number didn't ring a bell and the info said Fresno, CA.

I did a call back and a gal answers saying "Brandt" something or other. I told her I just missed a call, she transfers me to Lawn & Garden. I speak with someone there, they say no one called that they know of. I tell her a couple days ago I called concerning MFF. Go over the whole deal with her again.

She says she has a hand written note next to her phone that says "30 days PHI"

She says she'd take my name, ph & email and have the district rep for my area contact me.

He calls me today, says that MFF is zero days on cherries. Said make sure to pick up all the drops, and rake good so there isn't any infected fruit left on the ground, but that the cherries on the tree are perfectly safe to eat, and that 0 PHI is correct.

KUDOS Olpea!!!!!!!!!!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2014 at 12:19PM
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