Disease and Insect ID with pics

glenn_russell(6b RI)June 4, 2012

Hi All-

I have a friend about 7 miles away who I've tried to help get his orchard under control. After many years of using the Bonide Fruit Tree spray crap, yielding little results, he was pretty frustrated. I convinced him that we could treat the diseases and handle the insects by using the same sprays that have worked so well for me here in my young orchard. We did this last year, and indeed, he had his best year ever.

But, at the beginning of last summer, and much more pronounced this year, he had two problems that I haven't fully identified. I see a serious insect problem, and also a disease problem. This is after spraying with his motorized sprayer:

A dormant oil and Kocide 3000 spray

A (single I believe) Triazicide and Immunox spray 14 days after petal fall.

These same sprays (well 2 of the Triazicide/Immunox) here at my house have yielded complete control here.

This insect and disease attack comes very early in the season, i.e. before May. Any subsequent leaves after June, etc, are not affected. He has not seen any catepillars around, nor any other bug for that matter.

As for the disease, it looks like scab to me... though my scab is completely under control here, so I don't see much of it. If it is scab, then I'm surprised that the Kocide and Immunox didn't handle it.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

-Glenn

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ltilton

Sure looks like caterpillars.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2012 at 10:08PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Yup caterpillars and scab is what it looks like to me. At night you can ID the leaf chewers, thats when they are active (when birds are not after them). Just tonight I found a boatload of stinkbugs in one of my peach trees and squished them all to death. I love doing night patrols with my headlamp.

Hopefully harvestman can give some advice on why the immunox did not eliminate all the scab; there may have been a lot in the orchard from the previous year so a heavier response was needed this year.

Scott

    Bookmark   June 4, 2012 at 11:04PM
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alan haigh

You said a single spray of immunox, triazide 14 days after petal fall, is that what you meant? For scab the petal fall spray is even more important than first cover. For insects, it depends on the season but those shoot and bud eating caterpillars start early.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 6:25AM
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Randy31513(Georgia 8b)

Spraying schedule is a difficult concept for some back yard grower to grasp. It takes a disciplined approach. The people I run into that have problems either spray after the problem or spray when they feel like it. Some just dump the stuff in a spray tank without measuring.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:29AM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Caterpillars and scab were my initial thoughts too. Thanks guys for confirming.

Yeah, he just did the latter Immunox and Triazicide spray and he missed the first one, despite my persistent encouraging.

With such a big caterpillar problem, do you think I should have him spray BT earlier in the season (before the Triazicide that comes at petal fall)? Perhaps around pink or open cluster? I don't want him to spray the Triazicide until solid petal fall so there no risk to the bees.

Thanks again guys,
-Glenn

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:31AM
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windfall_rob(vt4)

Given the short effective life of Bt (3-5days)and the fact that it must be ingested, I don't usually spray until I see early feeding.
I walk the orchard a lot in early spring and really inspect the trees as they open up. For us the earliest feeders are at the top tips of trees. You often won't see damage initially, what you see are buds that are not opening properly as they have been restricted by interior webs(this probobly varies by species).
My first Bt spray usually does go down well before petal fall. If timing and weather cooperate it can be very effective.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 8:43AM
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greenrhody

Hey Glenn

Just wanted you to know I'm another fellow Rhode Islander you've convinced to switch from Bonide to tria.&Immunox.
Just got back from Lowes in cranston, they had both.
Now if it would only stop raining!

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 4:15PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Hi GreenRhody-
Good to hear! Yeah, you've probably seen my Bonide diatribes elsewhere, so I won't repeat it here.

I'm afraid it's going to be a bit late for the Immunox this year. That gets sprayed, per Harvestman's minimum schedule of once at petal fall and once 10-14 days later. It is a mimimal schedule too, as you can see the scab that occurs if you miss that first spray. Make sure you didn't get the "Immunox Plus" which has an insecticide not rated for fruit that's often carried around here.

It may be a bit late for the more important sprays of Triazicide too. I think PC has been here for quite a while.
But, you'll be in great shape for next year.

Where are you located and what are you growing? I'm here in South Kingstown.

Best Regards,
-Glenn

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 8:12PM
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greenrhody

Hi Glenn

I did use the bonide at petal fall so I'm not in bad shape, been waiting for the rain to hit it with your recs at now probably 3 wks later.Plan on spraying tri/immu mix later today.
I planted my mini-orchard probably 25 yrs ago so they're mature mostly semi-dwarf trees.
If the deer aren't too bad (or the squirels/chipmunks last year) I get upwards of 10 bushels of apples/yr.
I have,Liberty,Freedom,Mutsu,Rome,Delicious,peach,pear,bluberries,blackberries.And the typical veggie garden stuff.

I'm in Glocester,RI
Stop by for a glass of homemade wine!

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 8:41AM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Nice! Are your trees hit pretty hard by CAR up there? That was my biggest problem down here until I started with Immunox. The Bonide doesn't protect against that (even though it says it does). If so, I think you'll see a big difference next year. -Glenn

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 9:27AM
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greenrhody

I get some but it's been manageable, I don't strive for perfect fruit anyway. Do you have winter moth issues down in SK ?

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 10:47AM
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Randy31513(Georgia 8b)

I have just switched back to the bonide fruit tree spray on my apple trees. Not sure why but it seems to work better down here than up North. I am guessing we don't have near the bug problems as y'all do albeit fruit rot is my biggest enemy. I use immunox on apples only when CAR pressure is high.

I rotate the Bonide FTS with Immunox on my peaches.

Randy

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 12:19PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

@GreenRhody-
Yep, we do have winter moth down here... I see 'em, but so far, I haven't had too much of a problem with them. Perhaps the dormant oil is taking smothering their eggs like it's supposed to.

@Randy-
I'm really surprised to hear that, and you're the first person I've heard from on this forum that has ever even considered switching back. For anyone else reading, the reasons why I preach against the stuff can be seen below. That said, Georgia is quite a different climate than RI, and I admit that we don't have to deal with the fruit rot pressures that they have down there. I wonder what the other southern growers here are using to prevent fruit rot down there?
-Glenn

Bonide Fruit Tree Spray
Glenn - Has Purdue been reading your posts?

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 1:09PM
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ltilton

Not sure why people who prefer the Bonide mix wouldn't just use Captan.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 2:02PM
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Randy31513(Georgia 8b)

Glenn, it could be I am getting a more complete tank mixing and therefore a more consistent application with FTS as compared to the powdered Captan. I think Bonide FTS has a sticker added in too. That is my best guess.

I think as we have posted before, it is the different pressures you face up there then we have down here. Using Captan, bitter rot hit me hard this year. I have ran into a couple of home orchard folks down here that have had good luck with FTS.

I still use captan during bloom.

One thing for sure, a home orchard can be complicated. :)

Randy

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 12:27PM
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mrsg47(7)

Glenn, tell me more about Immunox Plus! Just looked at my new bottles and thats what I've got! OH NO! It seems to be working. Not a bug in sight. This was the only immunox I could find at either home depot or walmart!

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 2:58PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Hi MrsG47-
Right. Immunox Plus is more commonly sold around here, but it has an insecticide which isn't rated for fruit. I wouldn't think it's the end of the world if you've used it so far this year (I'm just a novice though, and take my advice with a grain of salt, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here on this forum recommending going against the label). The insecticide is Permethrin if I remember correctly, and Permethrin is used on fruit in some circumstances. As of now, there really isn't a need to spray Immunox after this point in the season, so I would just put the bottle away, and get the right stuff next season.

I've included a link to regular Immunox (not Plus) below. The only caveat with it is that I know they've changed the concentration lately on Immunox, and you'd probably get the best value from the higher concentration one, but I haven't looked if this one is the higher concentration or not. Luckily you have at least 9 months to research it!

-Glenn

Here is a link that might be useful: The Right Stuff

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 7:52PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Hi Randy-
I hadn't heard that the Bonide had a sticker in it, but that could be, and the mixing makes sense. I like spraying the liquids better for that reason too. As long as we find something that works for us, then that's all that matters.
All the best,
-Glenn

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 7:54PM
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mamuang_gw

Mrs. G,

Thanks to Glen's warning, I bought the right kind of Immunox at Home Depot in MA a few years ago. I still see it around.

Glen, I don't know about Bonide FTS containing spreader or not but I came across a bottle of Bonide Turbo sticker spreader this year. It's only $8 for a small bottle. That's what I need for my small orchard. Hope it works!!

I know people here have suggeted Nu Film 17for sticker but it's a gallon size and cost a lot more.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 8:32PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Mamuang-
Right. That's why I havn't sprung for the Nu Film 17... I just couldn't find it at a reasonable size/price. It's a good point about the Bonide Turbo Sticker... I may need to look for that. Thanks! -Glenn

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 9:00PM
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mamuang_gw

Glen,

I read Bonide Turbo spreader label a few times to make sure it's what I can use. It sounds good.

I can't find it at Lowe's, Home Depot or Ace Hardware (even though Bonide website says it does at Ace but not my local Ace). I found it at a large nursery in Hopkinton, MA.

Hope you have easier time finding it.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 9:28PM
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mrsg47(7)

Glenn thanks again! I found the right stuff! Also its almost time for us to spray our apples with Captan, bags and all. Would also love to try Bonide Turbo Sticker. What dormant oil do you use? Thanks again! MrsG

    Bookmark   June 7, 2012 at 10:12PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Looks like the sticker is pretty easy to find online, so I'll just do that.

As for the dormant oil, I've been told that the brand name isn't all that important, as long as you follow the label. I just use what I found at our local hardware store: Bonide "All Season spray oil".

Best regards,
-Glenn

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 7:32AM
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Randy31513(Georgia 8b)

I did double check the Bonide Fruit Tree Spray and it does have a spreader-sticker.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 5:11PM
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glenn_russell(6b RI)

Thanks for the info Randy. -Glenn

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 5:49PM
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