Smith's Best/Giboshi Persimmon

mk-in-ohioJune 18, 2012

I would love to hear from anyone growing Smith's Best/Giboshi persimmon. When investigating the Saijo persimmon at JF & E, I noticed Smith's Best and was attracted by its apparent cold-hardiness and dwarfish tendencies. (Why not try to squeeze in two varieties, right???? This is how I spend too much $$$ every spring.)

Size of tree & fruit? Productivity? Does it bud late enough to avoid late frosts? I've seen conflicting information on whether it requires pollination. Flavor in comparison to Saijo and other similar astringents? Ripening time?

Any information you could share would be greatly appreciated.

MK

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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Mk,

I think Shane11 really like this persimmon from previous post, or Creekweb can help you.

Tony

    Bookmark   June 19, 2012 at 12:23PM
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creekweb(6,7)

I have a Giboshi but it's a slacker, been in the ground for at least 3 years and in a pot for several years before that and still no fruit. This one is dwarfed, but I don't know if that's because it's a runt. I have seen Giboshi growing elsewhere, and I have harvested and tried the fruit from a pollinated tree. It is one of the PVNA types, so it is quite a bit different from PCA types like Hachiya or Saijo. The consistency is less jelly like and the flavor is more distinct and somewhat spicy. It does have seeds when pollinated and this IMO takes away from its desirablility. Still, I would rate it very good eating. The trees were rather large and ripened mid season. Giboshi has good cold hardiness reputation, the best of the PVNAs.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2012 at 8:00PM
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cousinfloyd

Creekweb, if I understand what you said correctly, you're saying that you need a pollinator in order to grow good Giboshis, is that right?

    Bookmark   June 19, 2012 at 10:27PM
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mk-in-ohio

Thanks, Creekweb. I don't have space for a shy bearer, or a pollinator. So Giboshi probably won't work for me, I guess. JF & E is the only place I've seen that says it is self-pollinating.

The only other persimmon that really interested me besides Saijo is Kyungsun bai si. I haven't found that for sale anywhere, maybe everyone just grafts it. I haven't graduated to grafting yet. If it needs pollination, it probably won't work either.

Tony, thanks for responding. Any posts you make concerning how your kakis are doing in zone 5 will be greatly appreciated.

Mary Kay

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 12:44PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Mk,

You can contact Cliff England at England Orchard and he will special graft any persimmons you like American or Kaki. He has a huge scionwoods selection. Good luck,

Tony

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 5:20PM
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shane11

Giboshi is one of my favorites for several reasons. It is productive, the tree is dwarf and the fruits are early ripening (around Halloween in my NC garden) and they have an exceptional rich flavor and can be enjoyed before they turn to liquidy. The fruits are acorn or top shaped and medium sized. Giboshi has been self pollinating for me so the fruits are seedless. The tree is extremely cold hardy and was one of the few that survived the Easter freeze of 2007. I lost lots of other asian persimmons in that event. I am honestly surprised that it is not more popular.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 4:49PM
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mk-in-ohio

Shane,

Thanks for responding. I had seen from an old thread that you liked this variety, so I was hoping you would comment.

Did you purchase your Giboshi somewhere, or did you graft it yourself? How soon did it start bearing?

I spoke with Just Fruits & Exotics this week, and they stated that Smith's Best (same as Giboshi?) was self-pollinating, but that the tree they had trialed had taken quite a while to come into bearing, and that perhaps pollination could have sped that along.

Do you have other Asians such as Saijo that could have somehow helped the Giboshi along?

Thanks again-

Mary Kay

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 8:00PM
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creekweb(6,7)

Cousinfloyd, I don't know that you would need to pollinate Giboshi in order to have good tasting fruit. I have only tasted the pollinated and that has been good. Generally, people prefer the taste of PVNA kakis when they've been pollinated over the taste of unpollinated fruit.

Mk,I don't consider Giboshi to be a shy bearer; the trees I saw were loaded with persimmons. My own tree has just taken some time to start bearing fruit but that may be for reasons particular to the tree rather than the variety. Kyungsun Bansi is a very good PCA persimmon, with fruit quality IMO superior to that of Saijo, good sized fruit, fairly early, ability to ripen off tree, good record for cold hardiness and reasonably prolific. This one will fruit parthenocarpically, that is without pollination. I know Edible Landscaping has had them in the past and so has Cliff England.

Shane11,You mention that your Giboshi trees are self-pollinating, but the fruit has no seeds. How do you know that the blossoms had been pollinated at all, and how do you know that it is the Giboshi itself that has been the source of the pollen rather that one of your other kakis? Why don't you think that it is just setting fruit parthenocarpically?

    Bookmark   June 24, 2012 at 12:51AM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

I planted my giboshi from jf&e in jan 2011; it's grown fast, 6-8 persimmons on it now......non have dropped yet

    Bookmark   June 24, 2012 at 8:41PM
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shane11

I suppose my tree could be pollinated by saijo but not this year. My lone saijo is in the process of breathing its last and did not set a single bloom this year, my giboshi is loaded. I do have blooming but not in close proximity kyungsun bansi, hana fuyu, and jiro. I do have quite a number of native American varieties planted but I dont think they would be pollinating my giboshi. I have never seen a single seed in giboshi. On the other hand I occasionally will find a seed in saijo though not often.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2012 at 9:55AM
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indicente

I bought Smith�s best this spring but found some yellow spots on the leaves and a bit rolled leaves. So I seperated this plant from the other varieties to avoid any direct contact. Will see, what will happen in future, maybe it is reminescence of some insect infection. I bought it, because Giboshi should grow to medium or dwarf size and should be precoccious. On the other hand, Kyungsun ban si tree can grow to big size and my space is limited now. Any idea, how big are fruit by Giboshi? Similar to Saijo or bigger?

    Bookmark   June 25, 2012 at 1:25PM
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mk-in-ohio

Thanks Creekweb, Shane and Bhawkins for the info on Smith's Best (and Kyungsun ban si.)

MK

    Bookmark   June 27, 2012 at 12:38PM
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indicente

Bhawkins
What about your Giboshi fruits,did ripe?I would to like to know more about their taste or perhaps some photos would be helpfull too.Is this variety worthfull to grow?

    Bookmark   January 4, 2013 at 5:32AM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Theyre very good. A little small, but maybe as the tree matures they'll be better

    Bookmark   January 4, 2013 at 8:45PM
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indicente

Thanks for reply.Are the fruits as small as Saijo fruits or Great Wall?Do you have any photo of fruits?I want to plant it in spring,zone 6b,hope it will be enough cold hardy for my area.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2013 at 10:45AM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Bigger than my Saijo, yes. No photo, sorry

    Bookmark   January 6, 2013 at 5:18PM
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indicente

It s okay with photo, for me is enough to know, that fruits are bigger compared to Saijo. Honestly, I do not know anybody who grows this variety, so every advice/experience is useful for me. Suprised that Giboshi is not more common by growers. Do fruits loose astrigency fast or it takes more time?

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 1:06PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

Is there a place to buy this cultivar besides Just Fruits & Exotics? They are sold out and have been since September or so.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 2:19PM
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cousinfloyd

I don't know if Edible Landscaping has any right now, but they list them in their printed catalog, and I'm sure they'll have them for sale again at some point.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 4:12PM
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indicente

Do fruits loose astrigency slowly or rapid?

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 10:51AM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Indicente,

Shane 11 mentioned in earlier post: " Smiths best is possibly my favorite persimmon of all the ones I can grow. I have found that at least in my area in NC it sets a heavy crop without pollination. The fruits will be astringent but seedless and with a very rich flavor. One thing I really like about smiths best is that it loses its astringency quicker than most other astringent varieties, many varieties have to be almost liquid inside before losing astringency but not smiths best. It is also a smaller tree and easily harvested. The only negative things I can think of is that its fruits are in the small to medium size range and little or no fall color on the tree. However the fruits are larger than great wall and in my opinion much better tasting. To me a well ripened smiths best fruit has a very rich flavor with a strong note of vanilla. It is a very good variety".

Tony

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 1:57PM
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indicente

Tony

Thank you for that post. I prefer smaller, dwarf persimmon varieties and Giboshi should be one of them. It would be good to obtain other, like Tam Kam or Gwang Yang, but I do not know plant source in Europe :-/

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 9:14AM
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cousinfloyd

Can a pollinated Giboshi be eaten firm like a Fuyu?

    Bookmark   December 5, 2014 at 7:55AM
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