600 hives wiped out in ontario

canadianplantJuly 8, 2013
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bamboo_rabbit(9A Inverness FL)

Your link does not work, try the one below.

I am not convinced the culprit is neonicotinoid's it will be interesting to see what happens in Europe as the neonicotinoid has been banned (except by England and Germany). If the bee colonies stop collapsing well there you go but if not? It was not long ago the same people that said neonicotinoid are to blame were theorizing the culprit was cell phones.

They do need to find and remove whatever it is, we depend on the honeybees.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bee collapse

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 8:13AM
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canadianplant

Ah thanks bamboo!

Well, there is too much data to ignore that some pesticides at least play a part, on top of habitat loss, and stress which makes then susceptable to disease. European scientists had to have found some correlation other wise they wouldnt have banned so many types. If anything the problem in the states is lobbying/lack of proper long term studies on many new types. When the EU, and canada bans some products, it should make you think about why the US isnt banning it.

Then again.... there are lots of substances in the US food, that many if not most countries have banned.... ( a bit alarmist title, but the facts in it are real unfortunately)

http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-food/80-pre-packaged-foods-america-banned-other-countries-135100604.html

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 8:34AM
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bamboo_rabbit(9A Inverness FL)

Countries like people tend to be self serving. Take Germany refusing to go along with the rest of the EU to ban the neonicotinoids....why? Bayer who makes the chemical is a German company.

Part of the problem is someone develops a theory and it gets repeated and soon that theory is put forth as fact and is not. The way I see it is if they are so sure neonicotinoid are causing this it should be easy to prove 100% and they are having trouble doing so. It could be it is a combination of factors. I just don't like this shoot first aim later the ends justify the means tactic that certain groups use.

About your chemicals in food URL ....Why would one assume those countries are right and America is wrong that the chemicals are toxic? There has to be a reason our country allows them.....just because some other country bans it does not make the science or reason they did correct. Just sounds like more of the blame America first crowd.

If you just copy the url the way you are and instead of pasting it in here put it in the box down below that says optional link url it will work. Then in the other box just name it whatever you feel is descriptive.

This post was edited by bamboo_rabbit on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 8:59

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 8:52AM
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canadianplant

There is a general consensus that pesticides play a role in CDD. Most if not all papers ive read on the subject state this in one way shape or form, to lesser or more importance depending on what you read. It is also becoming excepted that many individual problems in combination are having an effect, including pesticides. The most common (and too general) view seems to be stress causing susceptibility to diseases and pests.

I was using the food additives as an example of chemicals banned in some countries while not in others. The reasons can vary of course, and most is speculation imo. It is a good question ask to why some are banned in many countries and not the US. It does seem to be political infuence, like germany and bayer. The same can possibly be said about pesticides in the US. There is the obvious DuPont/Monsanto and Roundup example, which I will agree tends to be skewed in the general media.

Also, thanks for the hint about the links. No one has mentioned any problems before....

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 9:13AM
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ericwi

Here in Madison, I am growing blueberries, and maintaining the yard without using toxic chemicals, in order to protect and enable the local native bee population. We have bumblebees, two different ground nesting bees, green bees, and honeybees that are kept in a hive located about 1/4 mile away. Despite my best efforts, there were only a few bumblebees out and about when the blueberries were flowering, back in April. We had many weeks of wet and overcast weather, with only a few days of sunshine. As a result, about half the flowers were pollinated, and the remaining flowers dropped off. Our crop will be reduced this year. Bees have to deal with adverse weather, various pests and afflictions, and variations in the food supply. At one time it was common to plant clover in the lawn, but many of the local lawns around here no longer have clover. That is one example of how we have changed the environment and made life more difficult for bees. Reducing the amount of insecticide used will promote bee health, but other issue will have to be considered, as well.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:26AM
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ltilton

I have a prairie garden - milkweed, echinacea, goldenrod, etc.

Not a bee. When you have flowering milkweed and no bees on it, something is badly wrong.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:30AM
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melikeeatplants

From the same post:

"Why would one assume those countries are right and America is wrong that the chemicals are toxic? There has to be a reason our country allows them"

"Take Germany refusing to go along with the rest of the EU to ban the neonicotinoids....why? Bayer who makes the chemical is a German company."

I think you've answered your own question...

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:34AM
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mrsg47(7)

melikeeatplants and bamboo nailed it! I spray but am so mindful of my bees. I have a lot of mason bees, bumbles, but honey bees have been on the decline for years. I find the planting of sedum and lavender are irresistable to bees. Those two plants are all over my property and many are in the orchard. Anything to help the bees. That is a horrible story. Thanks though.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 11:23AM
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bamboo_rabbit(9A Inverness FL)

Melikeeatplants,

Bayer is a large and powerful company that holds a patent on the product. The food issue is an INGREDIENT that is not patented and made by a number of companies. I highly doubt the yellow #5 dye lobby is powerful enough to keep the chemical in food if there was proof it was highly toxic. In the past when food additives and drugs are shown to be harmful our government is quick to yank the products. It is just easy to write an article and use pseudo science and long chemical names to scare those that are easily swayed.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 11:23AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Remember honey bees are foreign invaders. Seems our plants got along fine without them before they were introduced. Not that I want to see them gone, all the same invaders are invaders. Not usually a good thing.
On the other hand many plants like peaches come from places where honey bees were present!
I'm very curious to see if the ban in Europe results in any improvement in bee populations. Hope so, but have no faith in all the political pseudoscience which dominates our culture.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 11:50

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 11:40AM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

Here in Colorado where the blossoms of most trees were destroyed this spring I fear that any bees would starve. There is simply nothing for them to make honey with and no food for them to get through the winter with.

I did get a few seedlings of Korean Evodia aka Beebee tree (Tedradium Daniellii). These thing are tough as nails. Mine are still quite small but I have reserved a place for them just so the bees will have something to maintain their hives with.

There has been some mention of the practice of taking honey and replacing with sugar syrup, which does not provide adequate nutrition and therefore causes a weakened immune system for the bees.

I believe the weather, pesticides, and improper nutrition all have an effect on the bees. I have seen the same thing here that ltilton mentioned above; no bees even on their favorite plants.

It may be that the only way to combat this decline is for many more people to keep bees with no intention of taking honey from them.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 12:08PM
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canadianplant

Drew you make a good point as well. It could just be that they cannot survive long term in north america.

So i guess the question would be can the native bees and pollinators do the job? The big thing about honey bees is that they can be moved around to pollinate when we need them to, which is also though to be one of the problems causeing CCD.

Some native species are apparently on decline as well. There seem to be some studies showing that native bees can be better pollinators and are more abundant then we previously thought (cornell). The USGS seems to think that there arent enough native bees to do the job right now either.

Up here i see all kinds of bees, and again there are no large scale farms with in 500+km of my city. I have not heard of bees getting CCD here either.

Personally, i wouldnt mind a small colony of mason bees...

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 1:32PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Usually as individuals we can do little. Well we can plant items to help our garden and feed the good bugs.
Some not listed in the link are
Borage
Nasturtium
Sun Flowers

Here is a link that might be useful: Flowers for Beneficial Insects

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 1:55PM
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bamboo_rabbit(9A Inverness FL)

Almost all of the pollination in my yard is by bumble bees and carpenter bees of some sort. Very rarely do I see the honeybees foraging except for when the citrus trees are in bloom then there are 100's. BUT I fish in the ocean at least once a week and when I come back the honey bees flock to the boat as if by magic I assume for the salt. I have started waiting till the next day to hose it down so they can get their fill.

Btw I spray no pesticides in my yard at all for anything.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 2:27PM
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paul_(z5 MI)

Foreign invaders, Drew? Not quite. Rather naturalized immigrants as they were introduced into the US on purpose ... unlike "invaders" which would intimate they were/are unwanted. ;)

That said, the bumbles and solitary bees are actually much more efficient pollinators than honeybees. However, because they do not produce large collectible quantities of honey, little to no effort is generally made to cater to their habitat needs nor do they receive the "press" that honeybees get.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 4:59PM
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alan haigh

My question is, if pesticides are so involved with colony collapse, why are so many bee keepers I know (it's a fad hobby of late) experiencing the same difficulties of collapse when they are far from the agricultural areas where these new pesticides are so prevalent? Why can't a study be done of hives that are not exposed to these pesticides for a comparison? They aren't being used a great deal in suburbia and there are thousands of hives being tended by hobbyists in non agricultural areas.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 5:22PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"Foreign invaders, Drew? Not quite. Rather naturalized immigrants as they were introduced into the US on purpose"

OK now that is funny! So many on purpose insects have caused havoc here. You really never see that happen anymore, lesson learned! Plus like they really knew what they were doing in the 1600's. How many natural bees did we lose? Nobody knows, but I bet many were lost, or hurt by the introduction.
Also the intention was to harvest the honey, no intention to let them escape into the wild. That would have no value to the colony. So IMHO they are invaders.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 18:26

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 5:50PM
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alan haigh

Eric, here in southeast NY the bumble bee population doesn't get up in time to be very helpful with blueberries or fruit trees pretty much ever. My property is blessed with a plethora or other pollinizers from serphid flies to mason bees and all kinds of things I haven't identified that fill the early gap. One of my most important workers of blueberries are my carpenter bees. I've read that they can destroy blueberry blossoms by cutting into the flowers but they seem only to be helpful here.

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I have a very wide range of flowering plants that keep things happily buzzing from early spring until the first hard frost. This year the bumble bee population is so robust the buzz symphony is almost scary.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 8:31PM
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canadianplant

You cant go wrong with using a large amount of other food sources. Even if you dont attract honey bees, you will still attract pother pollinators or beneficial insects. TBH when i started gardening i was into more of a green jungle then I realized that doing so would deny me the sight of seeing dozens of helpful insects.

I find bees all over my comfrey plants. They also love my mock orange but seem to relish native plants above all (at least naturalized plants like white clover). They did seem to absolutely love my borage last year a well.

We all seem to agree that we should have other sources of food for bees at least!

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 9:40PM
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Konrad___far_north(3..just outside of Edmonton)

Native bee population will dwindle more and more as the human population goes up. We cultivate more and more land to feed our self's, and add other things like golf courses, a perfect sterile lawn with no weeds, etc..etc.....less and less undisturbed habitat for native bees to nest and overwinter.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 9:43PM
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itheweatherman

Quoting Drew51

'Usually as individuals we can do little. Well we can plant items to help our garden and feed the good bugs.
Some not listed in the link are
Borage
Nasturtium
Sun Flowers'

Don't forget to plant Rosemary bushes too---Bees, moths, and ladybugs love rosemary's flowers.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 9:52PM
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mrsg47(7)

Konrad are there any other commerical orchards close to yours that spray? How are your bees? I remember you had some bee problems last year. Mrs. G

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:19PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"Native bee population will dwindle more and more as the human population goes up. "

Excluding bee keepers of course.

"Don't forget to plant Rosemary "

Yes, thanks for posting that!
Here is another link

Here is a link that might be useful: Pest control

This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 22:37

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:26PM
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larry_gene

Last month, 50,000 (the latest number published in local papers) bumblebees were killed while visiting a Wilsonville, Oregon store's parking lot Linden trees that had been sprayed with Safari while in the bloom phase. These large trees were then netted to prevent further bee visits.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 10:44PM
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Konrad___far_north(3..just outside of Edmonton)

MrsG47
We don't have commercial orchards here in Alberta, most orchards are in BC [British Columbia] and Ontario. We can't buy any pesticide spray's for apple maggots here.
I'm not spraying but sooner or later I might have to.

Yes, all 5 hives died in the winter, ..bought 2 packages. From these two I taken some bees and started another 2, installed queen cell. Went to a Queen Raising Course, learned how to graft eggs, [for making new queens] then bees are making queens out of.

Here is a brand new queen with new brood,.. can you see her?

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 1:58AM
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canadianplant

Too bad you lost those hives konrad..... the queen in that pic (Dead center wit the black thorax?) seems pretty happy!

Larry - That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me. Trees are usually put in malls and stores to make the area look good. How are tall netted lindon trees beautifying the area? lol

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 8:16AM
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larry_gene

It was quite a boondoggle; mis-applied insecticide and then people in cranes applying netting. The artist Cristo would have been impressed.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 11:51PM
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alan haigh

I'm not an expert at all on the subject of how best to nourish native bees but have always worked on the theory that it isn't so much the precise species as much as having pollen sources throughout the growing season-especially late and very early in the season.

On my property I have a mixture of natives and introduced species and the only flowers that seem useless for the purpose of bee forage I've noticed are kiwis. Nothing likes their pollen here, which may be why their cropping is so unreliable.

I am surprised how much bees enjoy my chestnut trees, which I used to assume were wind pollinated.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 6:00AM
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canadianplant

I agree harvestman. Im sure there are some species that are more alluring to them, but as long as there is a variety throughout the year, they have something to attract them to your area. Its probably safe to assume natives would attract native pollinators

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 11:04AM
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alan haigh

But the first flowers I notice my native bees in is the crocus, which aren't native. There are some flowering native shrubs (I think witch hazel is one of them) that they may get into earlier. I'm going to look very closely this year to see what is their latest pollen source and next spring for earliest.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 11:55AM
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windfall_rob(vt4)

Willow can be an important early spring pollen. I think it is actually rather low in nutrition (protein) but it comes early and the bees take what they can.

Red maple is another early source of both pollen and nectar...again I think the pollen is fairly low in protein.

I have been told bees will work coltsfoot in spring but I have never seen it.

I thought most species of witch hazel bloom late in the fall and experienced keepers say the bees will certainly use it if the temps are high enough for them to forage. I guess in some regions it blooms early spring instead?

Fall pollen storage is pretty critical for honeybees. "bee bread" is how they store it, a mixture of pollen and honey that is cultured with yeast and fungi. In the north, It's what they use to start rearing their first rounds of new bees to begin replacing the old spent winter bees.... and it happens before their are any blooms coming off and snow is still on the ground.

I think many of the native pollinators overwinter as either dormant stocked larva or solitary mated females/queens so I don't know if the timing of their needs coincide.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 1:04PM
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alan haigh

There is something similar to witch hazel here that flowers in very early spring- I will look at it more closely- maybe it something else like spice bush. Red maple flowers in mid-spring here- can't take much frost.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 2:48PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

Bamboo,

I fish in the ocean at least once a week and when I come back the honey bees flock to the boat as if by magic I assume for the salt.

This intrigues me. I have never read about bees needing salt.

paul_,

...because they do not produce large collectible quantities of honey, little to no effort is generally made to cater to their habitat needs...

You make a good point. I have seen very few bees this year. Usually my yard is filled with native "red butted" bumbles, but this year I have not seen even one. I'll try my hand at making nesting spots available this fall.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2013 at 12:13AM
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canadianplant

Apparently some bees do seek out salt...

Here is a link that might be useful: bee forum

    Bookmark   July 11, 2013 at 8:25AM
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bamboo_rabbit(9A Inverness FL)

Interesting. Not being a bee keeper I have not done any research on the dietary needs of honey bees just posting an observation. I live on the water (a lake) so there is always water available so I know it is the salt they are after. I have never seen the other bees go for the salt.

I do plan to put out a couple of hives this year it is on "The List" (as my wife calls it), the type made out of half barrels.

You should see the honeybees when the citrus are blooming. Citrus make probably 25 flowers for each fruit set and the bees love the flowers. They get so drunk from the flowers you can pet them......pick them up off the flowers and they just don't care.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2013 at 8:50AM
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