virginiana rootstock rejects kaki scion

bennylafleur(6 E. Tn.)July 3, 2012

I had an Evelyn persimmon that I decided to topwork last year. The tree is about one and one half inches in diameter, and growing vigorously. If I remember correctly, I grafted 3 or 4 kakis onto it last year. Most sprouted, then all died, and the rootstock grew more branches suitable for grafting.

This year I grafted 6 varieties onto it, 3 virginiana and 3 kaki. The 3 virginiana have taken and grown very well, one has 3 branches over 2' long.

Of the 3 kakis, one took, I re-grafted another with a fourth variety, and it took.

Then with only an inch or so of growth, they both died.

It seems to me that this particular rootstock will not grow kakis, and I am wondering if sometimes when a kaki graft fails on a virginiana rootstock, that the problem might be with the particular rootstock, and not with the graft union or the quality of the scion wood.

Anyone have similar experience?

Benny

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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Benny, I have several virginiana stocks that are very reluctant to accept kaki grafts. One I tried for three years and it finally took on a few things but they grow very slowly still. Some I never got a graft to work on. Other stocks from the same batch have worked OK, they may have taken an extra year to get a graft on and get going but they are doing OK now.

I am going to use lotos if I get any more rootstocks for kakis.

Scott

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 10:09AM
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persimmonbob(6b)

Benny, i have similar grafts that grew to about 12" tall and then died. I tried something new this spring, those particular tree's got a heavy dose of fertilizer,water then mulch.Sofar they have been growing normal. I am watching them every day,because it grafted with a special varity and i don't want it to fail.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 10:15AM
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creekweb(6,7)

Benny, did you graft directly onto the Evelyn or to the rootstock? The reason I ask is that I topworked my Evelyn as well this year but grafted onto the Evelyn itself. The U20A that I grafted has been doing great with a dozen fruitlets and several feet of growth on the graft, but the Saijo is languishing though still alive with about 1/2 inch of growth.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 10:26AM
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bennylafleur(6 E. Tn.)

Scott, thanks for the input.

Bob, please let us know how this year turns out.

Creekweb, thanks for bringing up an important point that I left out. The Evelyn graft is about 8" from the ground, these 6 forks are about 2' up, so maybe the Evelyn is causing the problem. There are 2 small suckers a few feet from the trunk, and if I don't mow them, possibly next year I could graft a kaki onto them and get more info on whether it is the Evelyn or the rootstock. your question has gotten me curious enough to try this.
The 3 virginianas are J-59, WS8-10, and Juhl. The J-59 had some flowers, but they fell off.
The kakis were Sheng, Fire Crystal, and another from Korea.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 12:56PM
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wlh8723(7)

Benny -I am new to grafting. 2012 is my first year, but I did about 25 grafts. Most were asian and 5 were virginianas. Two Yates and two Ruby and various Ka ki. All were grafted onto the native natural virginianas that are growing wild about the farm. I guess the possum planted them. All did well except a few died after sprouting and growing a few inches. As you described the graft onto your Evelyn root stock. I had the most trouble with Saijo. Three tries and all failed. All on different root stocks but all root stocks were native. My guess is that Saijo does not like the southern virginianas. Bill

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 5:24PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Benny,

I grafted a Greatwall, Saijo, Kyungsun ban si, I-94, and Szukis on the Nikita's Gift. All the Kakis took except for I-94 and Szukis. Weird!!

Tony

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 5:35PM
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persimmonbob(6b)

These are the little tree's in question, they been tryed for several years and they seems to grow much better.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 11:53AM
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persimmonbob(6b)

Sorry goof-up with picture's.Try again.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 11:59AM
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persimmonbob(6b)

Side branch will be used next spring for more grafting.Here is picture no 2 that was grafted several times before.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 12:05PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Bob,

Good looking little persimmon tree there. I don't think the rabbit or deer going to mess with the ring fence. How are your persimmon tree holding out in this 100's weather. I have to water mine a couple times this week.

Tony

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 4:23PM
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persimmonbob(6b)

I wrote some time ago about the difference in rootstock that does not work for me.I believe if you grow asian persimmon it is best to use rootstock that grow in your area. If you are young enough you start with seed from a source close to your area,let it grow for a few years then graft the varieties that you want.The reason that i mention years because the rootstock tree,s grow much faster then when you graft too soon,imo.If you buy tree's from mail order nurseries the tree's will not grow a long taproot and therefor not ideal if you live in a area with prolong droughts.I am in such an area and i notice the difference,further more you want your tree's to come out dormancy at the same times.Tony i don't water my persimmon tree's because i have too many spread out over a large area.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 9:37PM
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persimmonbob(6b)

Here is a picture of asian coming out dormancy, one in full leave and the one left just starting out. Magnolia fig in the middle.The one on the left is native and the other is from E.L.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 8:44PM
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alexander3_gw(6 Pennsylvania)

>All the Kakis took except for I-94 and Szukis. Weird!!

I-94 is a virginiana selection. Is there a Kaki by the same name?

Alex

    Bookmark   July 7, 2012 at 10:22AM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Alex,

Sorry for the confusion , I am saying the 3 Kakis took except for the 2 American persimmon I-94 and szukis. May be is a compatibility issue? I scatched the scionwoods but it was still green. I grafted them about 1 1/2 month ago. I will give it another 3 weeks and see what happen.

Tony

    Bookmark   July 7, 2012 at 10:51AM
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