Permethrin update

franktank232(z5 WI)July 3, 2013

I just thought I'd update and say i had EXCELLENT results with plain Permethrin this in I have yet to find ONE plum with a PC hit...they were thick...THICK on my apples (which i didn't spray early enough and when i did, i spot treated a few apples which stayed clean)... I was spraying every Sat nite on the plums ..i think i had 4 or 5 sprays total (its been several weeks now)...if i used a sticker i bet i could extend that. We had a ton of rain during May and June (15 inches)... Last year i had no plums ..none...because PC hit them so hard. This year i've had to thin there are so many out there hanging. I also have no PC hits on my container trees which all were spot treated (i only sprayed the fruit)..which include donut peaches, pluots, white peaches and a few other things...

Now if i can keep the rot away, i'll be good.

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Does permethrin work for oriental fruit moth and/or peach twig borers?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 3:32PM
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That's the way I'm going next year, Frank. No more Triazicide. Permethrin, with acetamiprid if some pests get through.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 4:02PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

Just looking at the bottle that i have says it cover both of those, OFM and twig borers...

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 4:09PM
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Excellent news Frank.

So you are thinking that the apple would have had the same results as the plums with an earlier start?

I appreciate hearing new about how well something works. It will be my 2014 spray program.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 5:23PM
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I used it on my plums, after initially spraying with Triazicide.
I found that it had kick back on the previously infected fruit up to a point. If the larva (worm) was fully developed, it continued to develop and was not affected. If it was not developed, the kick back worked, and the fruit ripened with an empty cavity, minus the worm. It also prevented further infestation, and the later fruit was clean.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 5:43PM
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gator_rider2(z8 Ga.)

Permethrin gets anything out there in my bug world its choice of so many insecticides dogs cats inside home lower % what we use on fruit trees. I've Scouted and Scouted in fruit and nuts trees Agriculture soybean cotton corn tobacco tomatoes commercial small fruits it kills ever thing out there. I've used it hand sprayers 12 volt sprayers boom fan and high pressure up to pressure washer 2600 psi. One thing for positive inscest in more places than just tree spraying fruit late way to kill insects.some times I get to spray next years PC are OFM in odd places like warming out building in cold winter I kill 125 OFM in one winter inside out building they been trouble to my fruit come spring. I use bug light in spring before fruit set so tell when they are there I spray Permethrin around that with pump up sprayer some can't get into inside bug killer I help bug killer out early each morning.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 8:33PM
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Sorry , misread the thread. My results were with acetamiprid
not permethrin.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 11:30PM
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I'd like to know a brand and source for it. My online search came up with several products listed for home pesticide use without labeling for orchard use. Any help appreciated.
And a side benefit for all the deer that come to eat at my orchard-it might kill all of the ticks on them :)

    Bookmark   July 4, 2013 at 7:30AM
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I use Bonide's EIGHT concentrate

    Bookmark   July 4, 2013 at 10:32AM
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alan haigh

FT, I like the idea of spraying fruit only. I assume permethrin is very hard on beneficials- the reason Cornell discourages pyrethroid use in fruit production when other products can do. Spraying fruit only would probably eliminate this issue.

Until this year I hadn't observed mite outbreaks from pyrethroid use and began expanding its use to more and more orchards. I'm now seeing mites where I never had a problem before. Could be a coincidence but I'm thinking it's probably the affect of the compound.

Too bad, the Asana I use is cheap, safe, odorless and affective. Now I have to jump in with something to kill mites at a time when I'm usually done with all but a couple of fungicide sprays.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2013 at 11:29AM
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Hman .... When do you apply your 1st spray of Asana to apple or plums? Is it for licensed sprayers only? Is Asana related to Permethrin in some way?

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 6:19PM
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alan haigh

They are both pyrethroids, as is Triazide. Asana is extremely concentrated- you dilute to about 6 fluid oz to 100 gallons of water. In NY it is a restricted chemical but I'm not sure about elsewhere. I don't know if it is significantly better than these other products but I doubt that it is.

First spray is at petal fall of last blooming apples when everything gets covered and not before. In a mixed fruit orchard there might be a two week interval between pedal fall of various species and varieties, but here, most serious pests get into action after petal fall of last apples.

Of course, what works here won't work in many other places. Further south there is an increasing distance between bloom of various species and cultivars and I suspect you couldn't wait until last varieties finally drop their petals for first insecticide spray on early blooming types.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 7:38PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)


I'm sure it would work great on apples, problem is the label say limit of 3 applications and not to spray after petal fall...that leaves a lot of problems... i guess you could spray some early sprays and move to another chemical or just go ahead and spray. My guess is that its really hard on "good" bugs??? not sure. One reason i just spot treated some apples and didn't spray the foliage.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 10:32PM
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Wow, This has been a great thread. I'm going to cut and copy parts to save. Thanks Hman for the details, and thank you Frank for starting the thread.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 10:37PM
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I used perm "Eight" on my apple tree this year AFTER petal fall as a 1-time response to a heavy caterpillar infestation. The caterpillars were small green and/or yellow leaf eaters.
The 1 spray controlled the larvae and I had no mite problems. Apples are small this year but I probably didn't thin enough.

Also, I control tent worms manually, because they hit early when the bees are flying.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 12:28AM
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alan haigh

I believe that problems with Triazide reported by some members here may be related to the shelf life of the product.

I had purchased some early last season and it was completely ineffective when applied this spring at the appropriate strength to a beetle infestation on some plants. Had to use something else from my commercial supply.

It had worked fine last year, but there is no freshness code on the containers so it may have been in storage for a long period before its sale.

I mention this because the permethrin label mentioned restricts its use after petal fall on apples, legally requiring that you use a different product for the most important sprays for this species.

I do not understand this restriction because the same label allows the spray of peaches up until 7 days before harvest. I'm wondering if it isn't related to its harmful affect on beneficial insects, but this is a problem with all pyrethroids.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 5:55AM
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I know that it has to do with mites, but why apples should have a particular problem with mites that doesn't apply to, say, pears is a mystery.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 10:06AM
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alan haigh

Mites are more of a problem with even some apple varieties than others and I've never had a problem with them on Japanese type plums, but they commonly infest Europeans. Never had a problem with pears either.

But the mystery to me is why they'd be harder on beneficials later in the season than earlier.

I'll be spraying some mites next week that appeared after Asana applications. Two apple trees on the site are badly infested and two others as well as pears, peaches, apricots, J plums and E plums are not. I will probably apply the miticide to the E plums and all apples.

Asana will be used again next year in spite of this difficulty because it is the only option with the company that I'm subcontracting the work to.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 11:38AM
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