Tried it for the first time this year. It reminds me a lot of Flat Wonderful. My son said he liked them more than Flat Wonderful, so maybe they are slightly better. The color is very nice.
Nice looking peach. It reminds me of Saturn peach.
Olpea, I had my first Flat Wonderfuls this year and thought TangOs was quite a bit better. FW had a good flavor but was too watery. Since they ripened at a similar time in a similar location I don't think it was the weather. Still, FW has fruited only one year and I will give it a few more to prove itself.
My TangOs this year were not quite as good as the memory from last year but they were still excellent. They were also more juicy and less rubbery than last year.
My latest peach find is a Chinese peach called Zin Dai Jiu Bao. It is very similar to a common kind of peach found in markets today in China (in fact, I was in China last month and ate such peaches there). It is a white-fleshed subacid cling peach with an aromatic, clean flavor. The fruits are very large and look absolutely amazing, white with a pink blush. Were it not for the cling aspect this guy would be a big hit in the US. I got it from the ARS and it looks like it was imported from China via Canada.
Sweet Tango was one of the few peaches I have that survived the frosts. Unfortunately it didn't survive the squirrels who took them all when they were green before I realized what was happening.
Reports from Cornell are that it was about the best survivor of all commercial varieties in the Hudson Valley that suffered similar weather as mine.
Those are some really nice ones, Olpea.
"FW had a good flavor but was too watery. Since they ripened at a similar time in a similar location I don't think it was the weather."
Scott, it may not be the weather. I can only say it's been dry all season (which is unusual) so both Flat Wonderful and TangOs have been grown in more arid type conditions here this year, whereas normally it would be much wetter.
It's strange that TangOs and Flat Wonderful ripened for you at the same time. This year Flat Wonderful ripened -14 (Redhaven) whereas TangOs ripened +7.
That Chinese peach sounds interesting. I don't know where you keep finding these unique stone fruits.
I've got one subacid white peach and people rave over it. I'm not that big of fan of subacid peaches but some people wait all season for this peach. Lots of sugar and lots of perfume, but not enough acid for me. As a demographic, I've read Asians prefer white peaches to yellows, whereas westerners prefer yellows to white.
I'm glad you mentioned that TangOs suffered less under Northeast weather this spring.
I like this peach and would like to order a few more. By the way TangOs is much better than BuenOs in my opinion. This is the second year BuenOs has fruited. It's a subacid yellow peach which may be the reason it doesn't appeal as much to me.
Scott, your Chinese peach sounds like the huge peach I've eaten in China a few times. I would love to get a 'maiden'. I have never tried to graft a tree. Is that how you got your peaches? Many thanks Mrs. G
Olpea, that ripening difference is surprising. This year has seen some extreme shifts in ripening for me, my plums are usually in the clear order Flavor Supreme - Shiro - Santa Rosa but this year they ripened nearly on top of each other. TangOs is a clear winner of a peach, for me its the best donut overall.
Mrs G, I grafted the Zin Dai last spring. I am sure nobody is selling trees, and probably they never will given that it is a cling peach. Folks in the US are used to freestone peaches. If you get good at grafting you can try peaches -- I would recommend several years of grafting experience first since they are picky.
Olpea the color of those peaches is magnificent. I would still love a Chinese peach tree 'grafted'. Mrs. G
How does Saturn fit into the whole realm of things? Better/worse?
Frank, Saturn is an excellent tasting fruit, one of my favorites. Unfortunately it rots horribly for me so I topworked it. I did leave one limb just to get a few of those delicious fruits, which unfortunately the squirrels beat me to this year. Sweet Bagel is another excellent flat peach which also rots badly for me. TangOs got more rot than I would like this year but most fruits were OK. If you are using MFF or other synthetic rot control on a regular basis you can probably avoid my rot problems.
Saturn is watery or super juicy- however you want to put it. That probably contributes to the rot. It is a very reliable cropper, though, and if you're willing to do the spray you'll be able to get the fruit as Scott says. That is, if you can beat the birds, squirrels and wasps who all seem to favor it.
If you are into subacid fruit, Saturn is a good one. It may not have much acid but it's highly aromatic for a white.
What I find amazing about Tangos is its' meaty smooth texture. It's very appealing and unlike any peach I've ever eaten. I was hoping to see how it cooks and preserves this year because I suspect it may be amazing for that purpose.
Every client that tasted it wanted a tree above any other variety so I'm guessing it may become the Honeycrisp of peaches- at least if it had a catchier name.
Your TangOs looked perfect. How did you do that? I definitely will plant this peach next spring
By the way, I am so sorry to hear about the drought in your area and the trouble your are in re. your new trees.
So far the peach seems pretty easy to grow. I do spray, but the peach is fairly fuzzy so may be slightly more resistant to insects.
It doesn't have the stem pull problem that Flat Wonderful has.
I like Flat Wonderful and TangOs very much, but I've gotten a few comments from customers who bought flat peaches that there is a higher percentage of skin vs. the amount of fruit and that the flat peaches don't peel as easily as the round ones.
Overall though, TangOs and Flat Wonderful were both excellent peaches this year.
Thanks for the sympathy on my new trees, but it may not be as bad as I thought. There is some yellowing of leaves in the center of some trees. A big concern is it has never been this dry this early and I didn't get mulch on the trees early enough. My neighbor next door has a pond and it was dry in June which has never happened. Now we're in the normal hot dry part of summer, so I don't expect much rain from here on out (although it rained some last night). That leaves a lot of summer for trees/plants to survive.
I think I ate TangOs last year. I bought them at a farmer's market near Gettysburg,PA. The seller said it's TangO's. It looked like yours but not very big. It tasted good,a bit rubbery, but I like it.
I don't have space for both TangOs and FW though I love the beautiful red leaves on FW. Jellyman used to rave about it. I'll go with TangOs for now.
I read and saw pictures of the drought in Midwest. I felt really bad for all the farmers affected. Hope it's only once in a long, long time. Hope all your trees will survive.
Olpea, I used to have almond trees growing on a very sandy soil in S. CA that never received water after the last rains- usually in April. They were also surrounded by brush that would compete for whatever water came.
Some years there would be only 4 or 5 inches in the whole year during drought periods. I don't think I watered them when I established them because they were very far from an outlet.
A couple of them are still alive 40 years after planting them- more likely gophers or borers killed the others than drought.
Anyway, If they've had leaves going since april they may well have enough energy to survive winter- even if they defoliate quite early. It's just that you may have to wait an extra year before they become productive.
I'm doing the best I can to keep the weeds down and the ground still has some moisture in it, so I suppose we'll see what happens.
I wrote: " and the ground still has some moisture in it"
I should clarify that statement. The ground at the farm is bone dry (as is everyone's ground around here) but I've had my son and daughter pulling weeds close to the trees where the area is mulched (and the weeds can't be sprayed) and the soil still has some moisture in it in the mulched areas.
Scott, dreging up this older thread. Think this was the one I was thinking of. Do you know the accession identifier # for Zin Dai Jiu Bao by chance? I searched the repository for the name, and nothing comes up. Nor does it come up if I search by country (China) and Family. I do see a flat Chinese Peach, see link below, but don't think this is your cultivar? Would be fun to try to graft this up if I can.
This was the 2nd year for my peach trees and the TangO did well from a bug perspective (I didn't see any damage, unlike PF1 and the non-Tomcot apricots), but there was quite a bit of brown rot at ripening time (8/3-8/5). I'm not sure, but it may have been from small cracks rotting (we had a lot of rain). I didn't spray anything this year, but I may need to look into MFF and Surround next year for my stonefruit.
The fruit I did get varied from 11-14 brix, most closer to 11. Even so, it was quite good and I am looking forward to the farmer's market this weekend- last year one of the vendors had Tango and I will make sure to buy more this time.
Patty, it looks like Zin Dai is not available anymore, search for the unavailable records and it shows up. I have plenty of wood if you want to try it. Note that I generally like to avoid sending prunus to CA since they are disease-adverse there with the fruit industry but this guy should be clean.
Zin Dai was really good this year, it is my best white peach so far. Its not a peento though.
Bob, TangOs is prone to both rot and peach scab (which I see a lot of there). This was the first year I did a midsummer MFF and I seem to have nailed the brown rot, I am getting zero on my peaches in spite of all the rain.
Thanks, Scott, I'd like to take you up on the offer! I'll contact you via email through GW.
Tango is brown rot resistant compared to Saturn.
We've been exceptionally dry here...like record dryness in July and its continuing into August... i haven't seen any rot here on anything...Tangos look beautiful so far...Saturn also look great..just wish they would put on some size..
Tangos, by the look of the pics, looks like it doesn't get that big?
I saw some Galaxy donut peaches at WalMart a month or so ago and they were gigantic... might be fun to grow them just for the size.
When I read that TangOs "rubbery".. is that what they mean by "non melting"...?
olpea - gorgeous fruit! Would you sell them by the box and ship them to say atlanta for an additional price?
I agree with harvestmans taste desciption and mine somewhat reminded me of champagne mangos. Small but very good. They were more brown rot resistant than my other peaches. The ones not quite ripe i could describe as "rubbery" while the fully ripe ones were "meaty" and more intense flavor as compared to a standard peach.
"olpea - gorgeous fruit! Would you sell them by the box and ship them to say atlanta for an additional price?"
Remember that's last years fruit. This year we were hit by some bad spring weather and lost about 80% of our peach crop. In some cases, trees that should have 100s of peaches have like 10. Other trees weren't affected as bad. TangOs was hit pretty hard. I just have one tree of it in production. They are ripening now but not near as pretty as last year.
The rain has reeked havoc on the peaches. I don't know if other people experience it, but when it rains constantly for a couple days, any peaches that have advanced to the colored stage have scarring on the skin. It's sort of like a minor skin rot, but it doesn't seem to go any deeper than the skin, but it makes the peaches look ugly. Of course the peaches also crack, but I haven't seen any of that yet on these donut peaches.
I haven't ever tried to ship any peaches and would probably like to avoid it. Part of my business philosophy is to try to produce a product that people can't get anywhere else (I hope that doesn't sound too arrogant, but in all honesty it's really what I'm trying to do.) With peaches I'm trying to produce the best tasting fruit available commercially in my locale. Most of the secret is to leave them on the tree until they are ripe, which of course means they won't ship.
As a kind of coincidence, I think this approach is mostly working. In the last two weeks I've talked to two people who have said they bought peaches from other orchards and both said the peaches were horrible. I know the problem was that the peaches were picked too early. There's a strong temptation to pick unripe fruit simply to fill orders.
To pick peaches right you have to have the attitude that you don't care if you waste peaches. If I accidentally peach a peach to green I throw it on the ground. I don't pick the last peaches on the tree (on the inside of the tree) because in most cases they aren't as sweet. Stuff like that.
If there were any peach that would be shippable, it would the the TangOs because of it's naturally firm texture, but strange as it sounds, I wouldn't want to ship/sell them to a forum member. There have been forum members who claim some of us are simply using the forum as a marketing avenue. I wouldn't want to give them any ammunition for that argument. I participate in this forum for it's atmosphere, vast knowledge base, and to help others in fruit growing. It has nothing to do with trying to market my peaches.
Thank you for the detailed response, and I respect your business decision as that is the same reason i grow them for my own consumption. Just like my happy childhood memories of Tullers Fruit farm in Columbus, Ohio and their out of this world fresh apple cider and glazed donuts, I am sure in 30 years there will be many adults lamenting that they just can't get great fruit "now" like they did at your farm years ago!
I lost a great deal of my stone fruit to brown rot this year after many days of rain in June, but the surviving Tongo's had the damage you described but none the less tasted pretty good!
Thank you for all your contributions to garden web and i plan to visit your orchard some day to get it fresh off the tree!
garedneck, the best reason not to do business on this forum is that it is a violation of the terms of service here. We all agreed to the TOS when we joined. Can you imagine this board if we all posted services for hire and produce for sale? Still there may be some veiled commercial proclamations that straddle a very fine line, as olpea pointed out.
I don't think it's a very fine line. Some people have come here and post a message with a link that leads directly to their business- that is a clear violation.
From time to time someone drops in that has a mail order nursery but also makes legitimate points about subject matter while also revealing the name of their business. I have no problem with that but I suppose one could describe that as a fine line from using the forum purely for self promotion..
I only mention that I have a fruit tree based business as a way of providing an explanation of the nature and quantity of my experience and have been accused of using this forum to promote my business. However it only comes from people I'm involved in an argument with. If I was participating here for business reasons it would be the worse business decision I've ever made.
Olpea doesn't get in a lot of arguments (at least in the persona he projects in his forum contributions), so even if he did have a high quality Fedex fruit business, I doubt anyone would complain. However, it would be pretty tough to compete with California growers who are doing the same thing- they can offer a much wider selection of stone fruit in an absolutely pristine state and work at much higher volume.
Just wanted to show what a difference the rain can make. It's rained a lot here for the last week. I haven't checked the rain gauge, but my guess is it rained another inch this morning. I tossed a bunch more Redhavens this morning because they split. The biggest and best peaches are always the ones that split.
Here's what the rain did to TangOs this year. Nobody wants to eat this crap. Ugly Ugly Ugly.
Thanks for the kind response. I enjoy having visitors (when my back's not thrown out) so if you're ever in the KC area, stop by, in season or out.
Your Tangs look a lot bigger then mine. My Saturn have been tiny, but very good...and they look perfect (very dry up here).
olpea, as a backyard grower I don't care one bit about blemishes, marks, zippering or whatever. Your peaches look fine to me. As long as the taste is there, I'm there. A trip this weekend to a local Farmer's Market presented perfect blemish free "ornaments", picked way too early, and lacking all the nuances of ripe fruit.
There are two "self accreditation" methods used as the "authoritative last word" on any given subject. There's the person that grows ridiculous numbers of certain things, expecting instant expert status. And there's the "x" number of years experience person. Experience and volume do not automatically equal success and vice versa.
A trip this weekend to a local Farmer's Market presented perfect blemish free "ornaments", picked way too early, and lacking all the nuances of ripe fruit.
I hear you. I sincerely doubt most of us would be spending a considerable amount of money and time growing our own food if it were easily available to purchase locally. When I picked my very first plums a couple of years ago and presented them to my sons one of them said he didn't like plums. I had to convince him that they were not "store bought junk". He was converted at his first bite!
For whatever reason it seems that damaged fruit, once the damage is cut out, is usually the best!
My problem is going to be getting rid of a lot of fruit...mostly plums..in the next 10-14 days....
What do you do with excess fruit? I know i could make jam out of these plums...but i tend to be really lazy when it comes to that :) ...and my wife still hasn't figured out how to turn the stove top on.
Olpea, interestingly, my Tangos look similar to yours this year and there hasn't been much rain lately until 3 days ago. I'm sure we had more rain 2 years ago when they came out pristine. What we did have was an unusual amount of rain early in the season but the stains didn't show up until they began to ripen.
But then, Tango grows like a weed with really rank growth and I don't have my tree properly trained yet- still a central leader, so, in my case, it may have something to do with the tree not being open enough.
"Olpea, interestingly, my Tangos look similar to yours this year and there hasn't been much rain lately until 3 days ago."
For me, once a peach is very close to picking, if we get a significant amount of rain and it stays wet there is a high probability of causing some brown scarring on the peach. Some varieties seem more affected than others. I will admit though that this year I haven't done near the summer pruning I have in the past to keep the trees open (been too busy). Still it doesn't seem that keeping the trees open helps that much (if at all). I have one variety that is -20 and it is one of the worst to exhibit skin scarring from rain. It ripens early enough that it hasn't even had that much chance to put on rank growth after winter pruning, but the rain still reeks havoc with the skin of the peaches.
"What do you do with excess fruit?"
If the fruit has minor skin damage, or catfacing from stinkbug, I try to sell it for half price as seconds. If it's very damaged (like all this split fruit from rain) I jerk it off the tree and toss it on the ground where the rest of the drops are. Not the best sanitation method I know. I'll have to get better when SWD gets here.
That box of TangOs pictured above, I just gave away to a customer that bought some other peaches. The flavor of TangOs this year is good, they just look like hell.
"There are two "self accreditation" methods used as the "authoritative last word" on any given subject. There's the person that grows ridiculous numbers of certain things, expecting instant expert status. And there's the "x" number of years experience person. Experience and volume do not automatically equal success and vice versa."
I'm still trying to figure out what that paragraph means. But I'm not an expert (of anything). Most of the advice I try to offer stems from my own failures and successes, but sometimes it's comes from reading. I'm really not trying to set myself up as an expert, just trying to help someone, or contribute to the discussion in some meaningful way.
I've already gone through a few cycles of other peaches and am picking Jonboy with TangOs and none had the brown discoloration of Tango. It is a unique foible of that peach, I think. All had the same number of fungicide aps and all the others only have black stains if they aren't pristine.
I'm disappointed that TangO doesn't have the intensity of flavor it did first harvest a couple of years ago. Next year I will thin it as much as I would a larger peach.
My TangOs were also not as exciting this year. I blame the rain. They were still tasty, just less flavor and more rubber.
In general my excitement on this peach has diminished a bit. Its still the best flat peach overall but the rubberiness, discoloring, etc are dampening my enthusiasm. Another problem I have with all flat peaches are they are the first peach that squirrels take, they are much easier to carry. So, I don't get many of them even in a low squirrel year.
Like I say, it takes about ten years to at all accurately evaluate a variety, but it would be so boring to wait that long and hold my enthusiasm.
This year, certain white peaches are getting more love from me. With all the sunny days, some I've found boring in the past are so intensely sweet that, even if it is mainly sugar, it excites the taste buds.
I even dissed Manon one day and then a few days later pulled one from the same tree whose higher brix put it into my realm of appreciation.
For you Scott, it may be your higher heat and light intensity makes what I'm experiencing a normal year for your white peaches.
Next year I may try mulching with highly reflective gravel over woven fabric as an experiment. Keep a peach tree open enough to get some of that light back and see how it affects quality.
That rubber flesh scares me...i'll be eating my first very soon... i hope i'm not disappointed! I'm falling in love with Saturn.
It's not really like rubber. More like a mango texture if you let them tree ripen.
"More like a mango texture if you let them tree ripen."
And they are very juicy. Rubber almost implies a certain dryness, but a good TangOs is plenty juicy.
Yes, and even though they are less intense in flavor this year they are still very good. They also hold their texture when cooked better than other peaches.
I ate my first TangOs... The only thing i would consider "rubbery" is maybe the skin...to me the skin seems "thick"? The flesh was not rubbery in mine...very smooth. The flavor...not real sure yet... not really a peach..i do agree it is sort of a mango thing going on... very good/plenty sweet. This was on of the damaged ones (hail), so i just picked it..i'll leave the others a few more days.
These 4 are all on the small side...i just picked what was softest...everything still needs a few more days...that is Superior, TangOs, Saturn and Alderman...
Hate to say it...but the Saturn are just awesome... all gone now too :(
This post was edited by franktank232 on Thu, Aug 15, 13 at 21:35
How is the fuzz on Saturn? Are they best eaten soft or while still firm? Why do you say awesome, just the sweetness?
They just have a little spice, a lot of sweet...beautiful texture, flesh isn't overly thick/fuzzy...tiny seeds... kids really liked them...i have Raritan Rose ripe (not pictured...i forgot about it) and the Saturn were better (and the RR are very ripe/soft)....
I do want to eat a few more TangOs to get a better idea of what the flavor is... it is an oddball in the peach world.
I've never had a good donut peach (all the store bought ones i've tried have been rubbery garbage)....so this is all new to me...It really is a peach to home grow.
Saturn has almost no acid and tastes extremely sweet and juicy. To me Tango is a much more interesting peach but my palate is very jaded as this time of the year I'm eating probably a dozen peaches and nectarines a day of different types (not always the whole piece of fruit).
Tango is probably a lot more useful for culinary purposes than Saturn although I've never cooked Saturn but Tango's texture holds up amazingly well after cooking. Saturn isn't firm to begin with and cookers need acid anyway.
But I've heard lots of people raving about Saturn, so it's really a matter of personal taste. As I've gotten older I gravitate more to acid fruits- don't even like eating many Asian pears. Certainly birds, squirrels, coons, bees and brown rot prefer Saturn to just about any other peach I've grown.
There is some flavor in most (all?) white peaches that i taste...like cinnamon or all spice or something... maybe its just me.
I didn't have a single saturn hit with brown rot...nor have i had any pluots have it...so i'm doing good on that front. Brown rot is in the yard, I had an Alderman plum on the ground yesterday covered in it... but that tree has a lot of shade in it, while most of my fruit is exposed to the sun all day.
I think a variety is more important for the home grower then anything else...so a few white peaches, some yellow peaches, some early/some late...nectarines if you can get them to make it through the assault of bugs/disease....donuts if that is your thing... I'll be honest... i'd still probably pick a yellow fleshed nectarine over most of this stuff. I'm adding one or 2 for next season for sure....
I still haven't tasted the Flavor King pluot..so i'm excited about that...it could be a few weeks. Its been very chilly at nite here lately and we've had a lot of fog. I see models are showing a good warm up to around 90F by next week, so hopefully that pushes things along. I still really like the idea of growing a lot of these fruits under plastic, more so to get ripe fruit earlier then Sept...
I'll probably be able to try a few bigger TangOs over the weekend if they soften up a little more...i'll get some more pics/thoughts then.
Frank, you are in completely different weather than me so I don't expect your pest pressure to be the same. A week usually doesn't go by here where we get no rain- 3 weeks and it's officially a drought. Summer days tend to be quite humid with heavy dew most mornings. I don't know if your rain is that consistent or not.
Scott sent me some Flavor Grenade wood and there are 3 fruits on the 2nd year graft- they are all cracked even though they are far from being ripe. This would indicate that they are extremely susceptible to cracking as the site has good eastern exposure.
For Scott it is his most productive pluot, but I'm now doubtful it will be a winner here. In any case, I'll give it another season or two.
Flavor Supreme was very early for me ...
Yes...its been very dry here...since July 1st I have had just over 2 inches of rain in my yard...most of that in just a handful of showers. I'm in the Mississippi River Valley and fog is very common here in the late summer/fall... My grass/vegetation is dripping wet every morning these days, but its also been chilly (50Fs at night)... a warm shot is coming and its going to get toasty. The weather has worked out great for the plums...
Superior plum is fantastic this year. Probably ate about a dozen now and they are right up there with the rest of the good stonefruit. Beautiful coloring on them with all this sun.
You've also got small open trees next to asphalt. No wonder rots are not an issue with you. My trees look nothing like yours- and are a green riot of leafy vigor. Yours are much like espaliers with the pots keeping their roots "pruned" and the trees docile.
The advantage and disadvantage of my trees is by the forth year I'm getting bushels of TangOs (OK, maybe two bushels).
I've got a Jonboy about 15 years old that I must have taken 200 pounds of peaches from.
My trees look like Frank's. Don't see how harvestman and olpea can get good quality stone fruit, particularly nectarine and pluot, with all that vigor. High vigor means high water status and high fertility, not a formula for the best eating fruit. But as harvestman points out it is a formula for rot.
The weather in the Midwest is about the same for rainfall averages and humidity as East coast at same latitude. WI won't be much different from NY. Both are way different from west TX or CA.
This post was edited by fruitnut on Fri, Aug 16, 13 at 18:52
Actually, from my unscientific evaluation, plum brix doesn't seem much affected by vigor or water. However, I'm sure if I was used to your peaches and nectarines, FN, mine would seem somewhat bland.
The thing about the human condition, no matter how good or bad things are, we tend to get used to it. People are so thrilled with the quality of my stone fruit this year it's almost crazy, but if they were used to nectarines with 28 brix, I'm sure the response would be more blase.
I am very glad to be growing fruit in the east coast this year and I love doing it in a beautiful outdoor setting, in real soil with big, free standing trees. It is the only way I want to do it, but it's all I've ever known.
Doesn't matter what someone might be harvesting from their orchard in Santa Barbara where it almost never rains during the growing season, although, from my experience at west coast farmers markets, most Californians aren't eating better fruit than me or my friends- especially not this year.
What you do under plastic and your whole creation there is truly amazing, but I have to try to take some pictures of my own and other orchards that I manage to show you how wonderful out of doors fruit production can be, even if the climate isn't perfect.
I really think i would be overwhelmed with 200 pounds of peaches.
I'm shooting for variety and trying to spread out the season.
I do agree that growing on concrete reduces rot...it also raises overnight temps and increases my watering frequency (which is about every day).
"Don't see how harvestman and olpea can get good quality stone fruit, particularly nectarine and pluot, with all that vigor."
I'm new to growing nectarines and haven't harvested any yet. Pluots bloom too early for my climate so I doubt I'll ever try to grow them.
I think we grow pretty good quality peaches here, based upon responses from customers and my own experience.
Last summer it couldn't have gotten any drier. I had peaches ripening all summer long, so I got to taste them at various stages of water deficit (since it didn't rain all summer).
The fruit was sweeter under water stress, but to my palate the fruit was only slightly better than a normal year. Toward the end of the summer the fruit was so water stressed it tasted somewhat bitter. Trees had yellow foliage and dropped a lot of leaves toward the end of summer.
Our "normal" year gets pretty dry in starting midsummer anyway. If we do get rain, we normally have plenty of 90 or 100 degree weather and the ground dries real fast.
This year has been different. We had a very late start from the cold spring and the last two weeks have been very cool and cloudy with lots of rain. It's been difficult to get a good quality peach (I'm referring to taste). Peaches are big but taste watered down. I'm selling only half the peaches or less on a tree (only from the very top of the canopy).
I just harvested some Rosy Gage plums and they didn't seem to suffer from the recent rain. They don't taste watered down anyway. Kirkes Blue was better this year under the cool wet weather than last year when it was a bone dry and blazing hot.
Truth is I can't grow a good peach in my greenhouse. I don't know what the deal is but in general they seem to break down from the inside out. I'm down to one regular peach. It's on the same tree that produced mid 20s brix nectarines 6 weeks ago. The peaches are much bigger and 18-20 brix. They are very good at that brix level.
I think that one difference between peaches and nectarines is that the nectarines lose more water through their skin. Thus under water stress the tip especially can develop thick and cracked skin. The peaches have never done that. The added water loss through the skin could contribute to smaller fruit size and higher brix and flavor in water deficit nectarine vs peaches. Just a theory but more water loss should pull more sugar into the fruit. And on nectarine the tip is always sweeter than the stem end. More water loss thru tip equals more cracking and sweeter flesh.
The white peaches were all discarded long ago. None was eatable compared to the nectarines. I've got Sweet Bagel peentos about ripe and both Tangos planted. Will be interesting to see what they are like.
Question, are peaches sometimes sweeter on the tip? Or usually the same throughout?
This post was edited by fruitnut on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 0:01
I think one reason I'm having so much pleasure growing fruit this year is that last year was the opposite- one disaster after another. By the end of the season I was practically clinically depressed. One more call from a customer complaining that they lost a ton of apples overnight might have put me over the edge. I was getting such calls through Oct.
This year at most sites there are no problem squirrels whatsoever. In my own orchard I don't even have chipmunks for the first time in 25 years and same deal with squirrels and raccoons- there are no signs of voles either.
I haven't read anything in the media about this great drop in the population of these animals but I assume there was a massive starvation in our native animal community over winter. What surprises me is that there still has been no significant rebound.
Now, after two barren years I expect a huge crop of acorns so the cycle will probably swing the other way. The predator numbers must be down by now- I gave some raw meat to a starving fledgling hawk the other day that was too weak to fly. It was hopping around my house and actually seemed to be begging for food. Scarfed that ground lamb right down and had enough energy to fly away the next day.
I wish I could save every predator so their numbers will match the rising population of my enemies- but I often stand helpless to the whims of nature.
I don't know guys... These Superior plums up to this point are amazing... The flesh is just incredible... the downside (if there is one) is the skin..if you've had wild plums, it has that slight astringency to it... but it balances very nicely if they are very ripe. Mine will fall right off the tree when they ripen, so you can't really let them hang for weeks and weeks. Someone (me?) needs to breed Superior with other pluots... Red fleshed donut Superior nectaplum :)
Squirrels are here and they are starting to hit the fruit..traps are out and the pellet rifle is on standby. I'm judge/jury and executioner :)
"Question, are peaches sometimes sweeter on the tip? Or usually the same throughout?"
I've heard that before, but quite frankly I've never paid enough attention to verify it. When I sample a peach, I eat a bite out of the side, then throw it on the ground. If I eat a whole peach, it seems like the whole thing tastes the same, regardless of where I bite, but I have to admit I haven't tried to analyze the difference b/t the "stem" end and the calyx end.
I will say that I've noticed most peaches soften first on the tip/calyx end, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were sweeter there.
Do you grow plums, apples, pears, pluots?
I'm going to order a few more peentos for next year... i'll take my chances with rot.
olpea: Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your insight.
Frank: I'm sure hoping you'll find some of those pluot better than Superior. Any fruit where you have to spit out the skin, Superior and Jupiter grape, isn't all that good in my book.
I don't know enough about peach but I can tell you with certainty that for mangoes and pineapples, the stem end is a lot sweeter than the other end. Mangoes when ripe are not easy to tell. Pineapples are easier. Sometimes I only eat the stem end and leave the rest (esp. the end where the leaves are) to my siblings!!!
What would be pluots that you would recommend, please? Any good variety for the east coast?
I have Satsuma that will flower next year, so that should add to the mix. Superior is delicious (if ripe)... no need to spit out the skin, but the flesh is where all the fun is... It really needs to be bred to fix the skin (it also cracks like crazy if you get rain around picking time)... If you take a perfect Superior and a perfect Alderman...you'd throw the Alderman in the garbage...its like a piece of heaven. I'm going to let some other folks try them and see what they say. I may drop the Alderman or graft it over..its a huge tree ..beautiful, but the plums are so avg.
Still waiting on the pluots...for some reason Geo Pride are falling and they are hard and not good, although completely red... Flavor Queen is still hanging... FK are almost colored.
I can't recommend any pluots for the humid areas unless you are like Frank and willing and able to provide some protection. And given how late Frank's are maturing I'm not sure you get enough heat to mature high quality fruit. They may all fall off sour. Frank has a high tunnel planned. I think that's the right approach.
My favorites that might ripen out east are Flavor Supreme, Geo Pride, and Flavor King. My Flavor King are long gone and Frank's are just turning color, not a good sign.
It looks like pluots will be more work with an unpredictable result. I won't try it, then.
My Flavor Grenade fruit is almost ripe. I ate one that was small and badly cracked and the flavor was awesome with very high sugar although it was still hard.
The other fruit is double in size and not too badly cracked. I look forward to tasting them. At any rate, it seems a variety that sets fruit well here, given I got 3 fruit on second year of graft.
I don't care if they are cracked if I can get them to ripen without rotting- the flavor is clearly exceptionally good.
"Olpea- Do you grow plums, apples, pears, pluots?"
I grow all those you mentioned except pluots. My understanding is that pluots bloom about the same time as most apricots or Japanese plums. I got rid of all my apricots and Jap. plums partly because they bloom too early for my area. Euro plums are more suited to my climate, which is what I'm growing now.
I do have one Japanese plum I planted last year - Shiro. Looking back I don't really know why I planted it. I think the nursery rep talked me into it.
According to Scott, Zard is a pretty good tasting white apricot that blooms the same time as peaches. It evidently has some production problems. Nevertheless I'm trying to get some trees of it established. I budded some a few days ago from some wood that Scott sent.
Frank, you should consider Earli-magic. There is no J. type plum I like more and it ripens earlier than any other high quality plum I know of- starts a couple days after Methely. As far as I can tell it is hardier than Santa Rosa as I've yet to see any cambium injury on it here- such damage is common on SR in my nursery.
If I have space to plant only one more plum, would you recommend Earli-magic or Castleton? I know one is J. and the other is E.
I have Shiro and Satsuma in ground since last year. I want one more plum and feel like I'd try the Euro one since I have none yet. But again, I've heard Euro plum has more issues.
Your input is appreciated.
I'm getting some Flavor Grenades now and they are a very good, very large plum. The tree sets very well, the only great-setting pluot for me. They are not rotting with the MFF I sprayed a month or so ago.
I like Earli Magic for its earliness, its well before other plums. It is an aromatic and not very sour plum.
My new excitement plum this year is Lavinia, it is an excellent tasting early/mid season plum with bright orange flesh, and it seems bulletproof. The only downside is the small size in the Satsuma range. The bust is Ruby Queen, some years it is very good and others its like eating crunchy nothing; this year it was the latter again.
Satsuma is still my all-around favorite plum, it produces a ton of delicious plums for me. My wife made a crisp from the last batch today.
Thanks for your suggestion, Scott.
I love plum and want to have my own tree-ripen plums. I have already had a Satsuma and Shiro. Maybe, I should wait a year or two to see if you or other posters in the East Coast would suggest a new gem for us.
olpea: I wonder how Flat Wonderful did this humid season compared to Tango. How badly did it rot compared to Tango? Thank you.
Good to hear that some folks in the North East are enjoying Flavor Grenade pluots. They really have an exceptional flavor and sweetness, and the crunch truly sets them apart.
It was a weird year for me. usually by July 1st I have to start watering my trees, this year, it is at last dry enough as to have to water. But no humidity at all this year. It's never humid here,well never for very long if it is. No rain in sight for weeks too. I always go on vacation August 1st for various reasons, and it's always a pain because it is so dry. I often have to come back to water, this year was no exception. It should be a great year for peach production. I suspect about 35 million pounds. Maybe more this year? At any rate a good year at last for our farmers. Last year was terrible!
"The weather in the Midwest is about the same for rainfall averages and humidity as East coast at same latitude. WI won't be much different from NY. Both are way different from west TX or CA"
It rains more in TX than MN. Rainfall seems to be about the same in WI and TX. I don't see how they differ as far as rainfall? TX is ranked 34th for most rain, WI is 33rd.
MI btw is 32nd. The difference between MI and TX is we get 4 inches more rain.
NY btw is 25th. It rains a lot more in NY than WI. The main reason is the Great Lakes, it changes everything, You would think it would rain more? Also we don't get the influence of the ocean. No hurricanes and such in the Midwest. We do get the rain from them, but it's not even a tropical storm by the time it gets here.
(edit-the new toned down version).
the NOAA National Climatic Data Center
This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 20:47
"olpea: I wonder how Flat Wonderful did this humid season compared to Tango. How badly did it rot compared to Tango?"
Flat Wonder was very good this year and it was a pretty peach. We didn't get much rain this summer until about Aug. and Flat Wonderful ripened before the rains.
In terms of true rot, I don't see that very often except on peaches which have open wounds (i.e. bird pecks). I do get what I call skin rot, but it doesn't go any deeper than the skin (Flat Wonderful didn't have any skin rot.)
I tank mix a broad spectrum fungicide like Captan or Ziram with insecticide sprays for scab control earlier in the season. I think this provides some carryover against rot later later on. I also apply some finish sprays against rot if we've had a lot of rain. Something like Pristine or Bumper which specifically targets brown rot.
When I do see peaches rotting on trees during rainy weather, it seems like white peaches are the most problematic. We had some rot on some white peaches a few weeks ago when it was raining constantly. I remember Indian Free (when I had it) rotted even without rain. It's sort of a white peach.
Mam, they are so distinctly different that I wouldn't know what to recommend. You can't purchase Earli-magic as far as I know and could simply graft a piece on your Shiro.
Somewhat contrary to Scott's description I would call it pretty intensely sweet with tang and juice. It is meatier than Shiro, Methely or Santa Rosa. It is the best plum I've eaten in its season and it blows people away that I give samples to. If you graft it on the Shiro a think it will be the Shiro that you whittle down as the EM fills space.
Castleton is a great home orchard prune plum. Sets fruit better than any I grow and only its small fruit size is an argument against it. It gets as sweet as you want it to be- just leave it a few more days if it isn't sweet enough. Actually there is another argument against it- it ripens in Mid to late Aug and I prefer prune plums to ripen in Sept into Oct when the peaches and nectarines wind down.
Drew, tone it down, would you? FN is always courteous so give him the same benefit, please.
Thank you, H-man for your input. I know taste is subjective.
I guess my next question is how easy to grow either one of them (which has fewer diseases/issues)? I am one of those who would not mind growing the second best if it is easier to grow!!
MI and WI have fairly uniform rainfall across the state and average what, about 30-35 inches. Texas varies from more than 60 inches to nearly zero. So whether TX averages more or less than those other states doesn't mean much.
I did state west Texas. Around this part of west Texas that's 12-15 inches.
The other factor that's just as important is evaporation. Here it's about 80-90 inches per year so rainfall is about 15-20% of evaporation. In WI, MI, and NY rainfall and evaporation are about the same. If they weren't about the same you'd not have all those big lakes. Around here a ranch with a trickle of water sells at a premium and is said to have "live water". Coming from IL that always makes me roll my eyes.
NY, MI, and WI are like peas in a pod compared to west Texas or CA. That's basically what I said earlier and I'm sticking to it.
PS: I am aware of at least some of the affects of the Great Lakes on MI precipitation. Snow is increased in some areas near the lakes. Rainfall in summer is reduced about one inch per month in some areas. That is a benefit to some fruit crops. But it's often the changes from dry to wet or vise versa that cause issues such as cracking.
Why don't we table this debate until your nectarines and pluots are producing.
This post was edited by fruitnut on Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 22:24
J.plums are easier (where I grow) than Es as long as you get by that last hard frost. E. plums bloom over a week later.
If I was growing plums for preserves, Castleton, no contest. Fresh eating, EM.
harvestman - have you dried Castleton plums for prunes? I think I read that it can be used for drying
How do you tell when Flavor Queen/Emerald Drop are ripe? Soft? I have some ED that may be ripe...
Those two when green are hard. They are ripe when there is a little give. Also the color changes to more yellow from green.
Somewhat contrary to Scott's description I would call it [Earli Magic] pretty intensely sweet with tang and juice. It is meatier than Shiro, Methely or Santa Rosa.
Harvestman, I didn't get enough fruits to fully evaluate it, one was quite a bit too early and the other was too late. Its definitely very sweet and rich flavored and I'm looking forward to see how it does next summer.
Eboone, I haven't actually dried them all the way, but one dry year a while back they got real close. I believe it is still standard procedure for some prune producers in CA to dry similar plums on the tree.
I ate a Emerald Drop and a Geo Pride today. ED wasn't horrible, but nothing i'd write a book about either. Almost had a lemon taste to it, but i am still sick (whole family is), so my taste buds may be off...Geo Pride seems a little too dry for me. I do like that its freestone. I have quite a few more to pick...everything looks great. 'll let them hold for another 2 weeks or so. I see most things I read say Flavor King is ripe Sept 1st, so i shouldn't be too bad...mine are fully colored (although not that big)... The dapple dandy look fantastic (good size/nice color)... I'll try to let these hang as long as i can into Sept.
I picked the rest of my TangOs... These were probably left too long on the tree...bees were starting to sting them. Very sweet, but not much (peach) flavor... nice texture. Neat fruit, but nothing i'd want a whole tree full of (a dozen of them is plenty). Give me Saturn anyday over this...but that is just my opinion.