Article on plum breeding in Wisconsin

franktank232(z5 WI)July 19, 2013

Just came across this .pdf this afternoon... Found it very interesting. Sure sounds like there is going to be some cool HARDY plum crosses coming out in the future... This is the same program that brought out "Black Ice"... Cool stuff...

link

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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

That orange colored plum is very unique looking.

Their breeding techniques are the same as I've heard from Zaiger. Potted mother trees forced in a greenhouse and hand crossed early in the season. Newer breeding programs are developing marker assisted breeding techniques.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 5:41PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I think Zaiger has stimulated interest here in the east. And the University of Saskatchewan has stimulated cherry cross research from it's romance series introductions here in MI. MSU went to Europe to look for tart cherry cultivars to use in crosses. Extensive research in new tart cultivars is going on. MSU has also brought in a parasite for Japanese beetles and will be offering infected beetles to attendees at Michigan turfgrass field day.
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/what_can_i_do_about_japanese_beetles_landing_on_our_golfers
We also have this exhibition going on . Look out CA we are going to steal your market! Fact is we can produce at lower costs, deliver quicker, leave on the vine longer, we have a real shot at this market. As I have said to the regulars all year, MI rocks at growing stone fruit. Don't tell us we can't do, yes we can, and do it well!

Here is a link that might be useful: Peach and plum showcase

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 21:15

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:42PM
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itheweatherman

"...Look out CA we are going to steal your market! Fact is we can produce at lower costs, deliver quicker, leave on the vine longer, we have a real shot at this market. As I have said to the regulars all year, MI rocks at growing stone fruit. Don't tell us we can't do, yes we can, and do it well!..."

We (Californians) will be releasing cool varieties first. ;)

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 10:48PM
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northwoodswis4

Not to throw water on your fire, I have seven varieties of plums, including Black Ice, but this year I have exactly two fruits forming total for all the trees. Fortunately, I am not trying to make a living at it, just eat some juicy plums. My success with five varieties of cherries, including Carmen Jewel, is even worse. At least my blueberries and apples are doing well.
Northwoodswis

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 12:46AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"We (Californians) will be releasing cool varieties first. ;) "

Yes, and competition is always a good thing. As it will stimulate you guys to try harder, and in the end we all benefit that's for sure! What I would like to see is Zaiger develop cultivars that are not so limited in where they can be grown. I always thought that was a fundamental mistake, and they left that market open to others. And it is where the competition is focusing on.

Northwoods your lack of success is why this research is so important, as we do need to have better cultivars in the plum and cherry market. It's just the start, better ones are coming.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 7:36

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 7:27AM
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Noogy(6 sw mi)

Northwoods,
Is your CJ having probs setting fruit? How old are they? I have about 9 CJ's and some look like they'll be ready to fruit maybe next year.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 8:07AM
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itheweatherman

"What I would like to see is Zaiger develop cultivars that are not so limited in where they can be grown. I always thought that was a fundamental mistake, and they left that market open to others. And it is where the competition is focusing on... "

You are absolutely right, his number one mistake is that he only crosses plums and apricots that were developed here in California. That's why most of his hybrids don't do well outside California. He needs more diversity to his gene pool, that is if he wants his interspecifics to do well outside California--I wish that he would use plums and apricots that were developed in other states so his interspecifics would be better adaptable throughout the U.S.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 11:32AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Well to Zaiger's credit many can be grown here. Many whom have trouble are in the Northeast. They have trouble with just about anything. I have 3 Zaiger trees and expect to be able to make them produce somewhat. I'm sure I may have some trouble figuring out what I need to do, but by year 6 and 7 I expect to have loads of Zaiger fruit. If I'm still here by year 6 or 7, I plan to move just about then. That really sucks but I can't stay here, the house is way too big for my needs. My kids have left the nest, I need a smaller house.

Also the market in CA is so huge one really does not have to leave that market. Other markets are not even close.
Although I just want them to develop them, and it is not that practical. I understand why they do what they do.
Should the Midwest take more of the market, then a different strategy is in order.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 12:18PM
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northwoodswis4

Noogy,
I planted my first Carmen Jewel in fall of 2008, the second in fall of 2009, the third in May of 2010, a fourth in spring of 2012, and three more in spring of 2013. As far as I know, they haven't even blossomed, although I was away from home the past two springs. I had thought about starting a U-Pick for cherries if they did well, but have given up on that idea. Northwoodswis

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 10:49PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

I'm going to try my hand at cross pollination next year. I know its a very long, slow process...but who knows...

North-
Have you tried Evans sour cherry? That is a very good cherry in my opinion... I've tried North Star also... Evans is super easy to grow, fruits early and is loaded almost every year...i actually cut some branches off full of fruit this year because it just had too much. I also grow sweet cherries (which are almost impossible in this climate)...

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 11:14PM
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itheweatherman

"I'm going to try my hand at cross pollination next year. I know its a very long, slow process...but who knows..."

Are you going to create your own hybrids?

I am:

I'm stratifying a few dozen seeds (peach and plum). The Satsuma, Mariposa, and Santa Rosa plum seeds were pollinated by a moorpark apricot and Eleberta peach; the peach seeds were pollinated by a moorpark apricot, nonpareil almond, Mariposa and Satsuma plum pollen. So I hope that in a month or two I would get some hybrids.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 12:09AM
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itheweatherman

I learned the stratification method from from all you.

Thanks.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 12:18AM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

I got my first 2 cherries this year from a potted Carmine Jewel I planted in 2011. I also had CJ 2 in the yard, one of which died this year and the other is still quite small.

Two Crimson Passion (planted right next to the poorly growing CJ are doing quite well and are at least as large as the potted CJ which produced the cherries. So, I'm hoping for CP next year. The 2 CJ cherries I got were OK, but not great, so I'm looking forward to the higher-brix CP.

No stone-fruit breeding for me, but I'm trying my hand at apples. For my first crosses, I pollinated Goldrush with Pitmaston Pineapple and Hudson's Golden Gem.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:36AM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

Bob-

I've got a number Honeycrisp seedlings growing... going to bud them onto my bigger trees and see what we get.

Weatherman-

I'll probably cross a few things...plums and peaches or plums and apricots... i think a cross of Superior plum and Tomcot is in order...

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 10:21AM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

Frank,

A while ago, I saw an assertion that Honeycrisp doesn't pass on its unique crunch to most of its seedlings (I don't remember where I read this).

How many crosses did you make? I've got 4-5 branches hand-pollinated (with the usual pull the flower off before opening, etc).

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 11:29AM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

The July 2013 issue of Good Fruit Grower has a nice article about the newest in fruit breeding techniques. It's a nation wide project of key university fruit breeders called RosBREED. I'm not enough of a geneticist to understand it all that well. But they've apparently developed methods to pick out the lines most likely to pass on any trait to it's offspring. So for instance going forward they'd use breeding lines rather than named varieties like Honeycrisp to breed for crisp apples.

This is a huge change. In the past fruit breeding was mainly crossing two great varieties with varying traits in the hopes of combining the best of both parents. Now the parents might not even be good fruit.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 13:23

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 12:53PM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

weatherman:

If I were your age and highly into fruits like you, I'd be thinking of becoming a fruit breeder not a weatherman. When I worked for Texas A&M the guys with the best jobs were the breeders. I was working closely with the wheat breeder and wishing I was closer than 500 miles from the fruit breeder.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 12:59PM
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itheweatherman

Here is flavor finale pluot.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:34PM
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itheweatherman

Here is dapple fire pluot (50% plum, 37.50% nectarine, and 12.50% peach).

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:36PM
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itheweatherman

Here is flavor queen pluot (still green).

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:38PM
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itheweatherman

Wrong post.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:39PM
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itheweatherman

Quoting fruitnut:
"If I were your age and highly into fruits like you, I'd be thinking of becoming a fruit breeder not a weatherman. When I worked for Texas A&M the guys with the best jobs were the breeders. I was working closely with the wheat breeder and wishing I was closer than 500 miles from the fruit breeder."

That sounds great but I still prefer meteorology over fruit breeding. Or I could double major. That will be great. Hey, in College I majored in both Liberal Arts and Math/Science. So that be cool to have two bachelor degrees.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:53PM
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northwoodswis4

Franktank,
Yes, I have an Evans. It looked like it was getting cherries this June, but when they reached a quarter inch or less diameter they disappeared, so I don't know if the birds got them or they weren't pollinated properly. I have three sweet cherry trees. The Lapins actually had a cherry up out of reach, but it also disappeared long before it got ripe. I also have meteor and Kristin. Well, my pear trees and kiwi vines are finally starting to produce now, so there is still hope for the cherries, as well as the plums. Maybe next year. Northwoodswis

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 2:37PM
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