Sandra Rose Cherry Scionwood

hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CAAugust 22, 2012

Well, all my efforts to find a Sandra Rose cherry have come up empty-handed. No growers that have Sandra Rose for 2013 will ship to California, and there are no California growers that have budded this cherry for 2013. So, hoping that one of our forum members would be willing to swap some scionwood with me? I would like to get a few pieces of Sandra Rose scionwood, and would be willing to swap for something from my small orchard. You can contact me via email through GW. Thanks!

Patty S.

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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

Did you contact Fowler Nurseries? They list Sandra Rose and they are in CA.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fowler Nurseries: Cherries

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 3:24AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Fowler's didn't bud up any Sandra Rose for 2013. Guess they just haven't updated their availability for 2013, yet. If anyone has any other for sure sources, I'll check it out, but I've checked out C&O, Fowlers, Burchell's, Pro Tree. Every retail and wholesale option. Even Schlabach's (they cannot ship to CA).

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 11:56AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

My SR unfortunately bit it, I planted it in the heat wave and the June bugs then defoliated it, and it didn't come back :-( June bugs are usually just a nuisance, this is the first time there were so many that they caused real trouble. I am also having a problem with these big white moths eating fruits at night, there are tons of them and most summers there are only a couple.

I'll probably be looking for another SR this winter. Does Schlabach's have them in stock? I would also be interested in wood if you find some.

Scott

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 12:04PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Just to also post to the forum, Schlabaugh's does have Sandra Rose, but I just got a letter from them yesterday letting me know they cannot ship to Calif. This was frustrating, as I talked with them over the phone about that, and they assured me they could. Apparently things must have changed. I can find no growers in Calif, and the few in the Pacific Northwest that can ship to Calif aren't growing Sandra Rose. Wow, who thought this would be so very hard to get?? You're moths sound like Sphynx moths, have you been able to ID them?

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 2:00PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

hoosierquilt,

It looks like you've already done your homework. I did find a company in Kansas that says they have the scion. If you have not asked Wagon Wheel Orchard yet, they say they have the scion. (Scroll way down or select Ctrl+F and type in Sandra Rose)

Rick Godsil
wagonwheelmail@aol.com
(913) 893-6050

Here is a link that might be useful: CHERRY (scion wood only)

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 3:31PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Thanks milehigh. I'll contact them, excellent, thanks so much!

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 3:33PM
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theaceofspades(7 Long Island)

ACN sells Sandra Rose and it is patented.

Here is a link that might be useful: ACN

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 9:09PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

ACN will not ship to California. And, I am sure Sandra Rose is way off patent by now, aceofspades.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 9:42PM
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theaceofspades(7 Long Island)

hoosierquilt, Sandra Rose is patented if you want I could order one and send it to you.

Sandra Rose�

PPAF

Description
Introduced by the breeding program at Summerland, British Columbia, Sandra Rose� is a short-stemmed, mid-season dark red cherry that has been evaluated for many years. Size and color have been consistently attractive and uniform, and the flavor has been praised annually. Sandra Rose� is moderately firm and has shown some resistance to cracking. It is considered a self-fertile variety.

Royalty Fee
$1.00

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 8:34AM
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sautesmom

Fowler's lists Sandra Rose as "Patent pending", so not only is it not off-patent, the 17 years haven't even started yet to allow for scion exchanges.

Carla in Sac

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 10:57AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Carla, I don't think it was ever patented. Sometimes growers will apply for patents, but not carry through with them. After 17 years, highly unlikely Zaiger will carry through with the patent. I will check with DWN to see, though.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 11:54AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

I paid a buck royalty when I bought my Sandra Rose from ACN so someone there thinks its patented.

Scott

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 12:42PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Ah. Well, I did post to DWN's forum, so hopefully I'll get a difinitive answer. Maybe they're trying to just now patent this variety after it's been around for 15 years? Odd, but hopefully I'll get an answer from them. Certainly do not want to step on patent rights, but frustrating if I can't even buy the tree, so it's not like I would be infringing on a sale in the first place. Perhaps I should simply stop obsessing about this one variety :-) I have several nice cherries, and perhaps just be happy with what I've already got.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 12:58PM
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franktank232(z5 WI)

Here we go...i think:

Patent?

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 2:37PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Yes, in Canada for goodness' sake. I was looking it up on the US patent site, no wonder I couldn't find it, and it's not a DWN tree. Thanks, Frank. Still under patent then for a few more years.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 3:23PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

I am confused about the patent rights. I have/had a few design patents in my name and was told by my patent attorney that a patent in the U.S. did not cover other countries. So if the patent on Sandra Rose is in Canada, does that mean that royalties must be paid in the U.S.? Does this include purchase of scion also?

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 12:42AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

You are right that patents apply to one country only. There is a method where you can send in one application to a whole bag of countries in one go, but it looks like Sandra Rose was initially patented in Canada only. I'm also not sure if the international patent application can even work for plant patents, they are a different category of patent from the standard one.

I think Sandra Rose is PPAF in the US -- Plant Patent Applied For. Thats what the nursery listings say. I don't fully understand that status but I think the idea is once you put a request in the variety is viewed as if the request succeeded, i.e. royalties need to be paid. I don't know what happens if the request ends up failing, do folks get back royalties they paid? Also, how is it possible to confirm PPAF status?

Scott

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 9:24AM
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spartan-apple

I do not know the exact details on Sandra rose. I can say
with my nursery background that plants patented in Canada
can be grown in the U.S. Usually the grower signs a licensing agreement to honor the royalty fee. The fee is paid on all the patented plants grown and sold. Nothing paid on those grown and not sold.

They have something called the COPF (Canadian Ornamental
Plant Foundation) that would collect royalties on ornamental plants patented in Canada but grown by U.S growers. I presume something similar may exist for fruit
varieties patented in Canada.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 11:32AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Well, I think we know we can grow this cherry, spartan, but the question is around scionwood. I think that we've determined there is some degree of patent protection for this variety here in the USA, since folks who have purchased the tree are paying the $1.00 royalty fee to the retail nursery (which we all assume is passed on). The tree as Scott has pointed out is labeled at PPAF here in the USA, which stands for Plant Patent Applied For. And, for patented trees, you cannot purchase scionwood, patented or otherwise. Only licensed growers may propagate a patented tree, and there is an extensive application process for that, no doubt. Very confusing, and Scott, I would assume you could search the USA Patents site, as I believe they have a pending database as well as a current patent database and even an expired patent database I believe. The search, however, is rather confusing. Not a user-friendly site.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 11:44AM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

I found information on Wikipedia regarding plant patents. I don't fully understand it as I just briefly skimmed it.

"The UPOV Convention also establishes a multilateral system of national treatment, under which citizens of any member state are treated as citizens of all member states for the purpose of obtaining plant breeders rights. It also sets up a multilateral priority filing system, under which an application for protection filed in one member state establishes a filing date for applications filed in all other member states within one year of that original filing date. This allows a breeder to file in any one member country within the one-year period required to preserve the novelty of his variety, and the novelty of the variety will still be recognized when he files in other member countries within one year of his original filing date. However if the applicant does not wish to make use of priority filing he or she has four years in which to apply in all other member states, excepting the USA, for all species except tree and vine species in which case he or she has six years to make application. See article 10 1 (b) of Council Regulation EC No 2100/94 of 27 July 2004 on the website www.cpvo.eu. The trigger to start the four or six year period is not actually the date on which the first filing is made but the date on which the variety was first commercialised."

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant breeders' rights

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 1:27PM
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