Best Persimmons

bhawkins(8A Dallas)August 24, 2013

I'm hoping to start an argument!

I've only had fruit from 5 or so of the dozen persimmons I'm growing; but based upon my results, & peoples comments, & ones from pick your own orchards,only a few stand above the rest

Astringent: Giombo, Hichaya, Kyung San Ban Si, Chocolate

Non Astringent: They're all pretty much the same; Fuyu is as good as any?

imo., Saijo is too small, Tamopan too bland, Ichi Ki kei tastes same as Fuyu & is a sparse bearer, Matsumoto Wase Fuyu tastes same as fuyu...etc

Anybody want to defend Tam Kam, Great Wall, Coffecake, Cinammon, Maru, Miss Kim, etc?

Conversly, what are the worst persimmons? Tamopan? Tanenshi? Lindy's Giant?

thanks,

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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

I've only fruited Chocolate and Eureka so far. Not really that impressed with Chocolate. Last year it set 7 fruit this year only two. Seven wasn't too many last year and this year it could have carried 10-20. For eating quality I'd just as soon eat Eureka and it bears decently.

Around here I think most will leaf out too early and get frozen. Eureka leafs and blooms late.

Do you notice differences in leafing dates or hardiness?

    Bookmark   August 24, 2013 at 7:20PM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Thanks Fruitnut. All my persimmons (I think I may have 17 types actually) bloom late enough to escape spring frosts. Only time I had one freeze out it was newly planted in March from a southern nursery; it came leafed out & grew back. I can see though how bloom time might be a criteria for some folk, but I havenâÂÂt paid attention to it.

I have 2 EurekaâÂÂs in their third leaf in 2 locations 3 miles apart. One gave me a half dozen fruit in its second year (though none in its third) & the other has a half dozen in its third year; so the Eureka is precocious. I like the taste & texture, itâÂÂs certainly better than Tamopan & Taninashi to me. Yet the Giombo is similar, a little larger, to me tastes slightly better, has a more uniform texture, had a half dozen fruit in its second leaf & is loaded in its third. So while IâÂÂd give the Eureka an âÂÂAâÂÂ, IâÂÂd give Giombo an A+.

Of course thatâÂÂs Dallas, & jmo.

Thanks!

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 5:38AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

I agree on the non-astringent, they are very similar. 20th century was a bit better some years, but last year they all tasted the same.

For the astringent, Hachiya is a clear winner. My favorite is Aizu Michirazu, its smaller but a bit more sweet and flavorful than Hachiya. Great Wall I removed, its too small and stringy.

On the PVNA guys Chocolate has been the best for me. I got a few cinnamon (aka Hyakume) types last year and they need a longer season than I have. Maru is fruiting for me for the first time this year.

My Chocolate tree at some point (about ten years in) switched to making nearly all male flowers. I thought I would out-smart it last spring and pruned off the branches with no female flowers on it, but it didn't grow back, it switched to a low-vigor growing mode.. very odd. It also has few fruits on it this year.

Scott

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 8:49AM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

This year my Chocolate must have had at least 500 males vs 6-8 female flowers and set 2 fruits. It was really bizarre. I'm not impressed at all. The eating quality isn't better than Eureka for my taste.

Since my Chocolate only set 2 fruit I cut it back some since it was so floppy it couldn't support itself. After that it went crazy with new growth. This is all in my greenhouse.

This year the outdoor Eureka needed freeze protection in both April and May. Chocolate would likely take severe freeze damage outdoors. Both years in the greenhouse it's had 12 inches new growth before Eureka started pushing.

bhawkins and Scott: Thanks for the input. It saves me trying many types that are the same. I might try Hachiya and Fuyu in the greenhouse and outdoors. The rest sound like a waste of time.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Sun, Aug 25, 13 at 10:18

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 9:28AM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Bob,

I think you should give Nikita's Gift Hybrid persimmon a shot. My tree is about 12 feet tall. The red fruit is about 2-3". when dead ripe and dropped from the tree, the texture was similar to a soft Fuyu but a lot sweeter. It has a little blend of American persimmon and a lot of Kaki in taste. I dried some last year and it tasted better than candy. My children loved them. Jerry Lehman and I agreed that NG belongs amongst the top 10% of the Astringent Kakis.

Tony

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 3:26PM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

Tony:

Do you think Nikita's Gift leaves out late? If it does I'll try it. That's my worst issue here.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 4:57PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

FN,

My leafed out around may 10th of this year.

Tony

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 7:35PM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Fruitnut, IâÂÂm with you on chocolate; good, not special. My wife though is with you Scott, she thinks itâÂÂs great, & she has persimmon street creds being Korean. It does have a unique taste. Also itâÂÂs precocious, bearing on my 2 trees in its 2nd & 3âÂÂrd years; not biennial. & its about the first persimmon to ripen. So Chocolates a winner.

Tony, you talked me into a Nikita. IâÂÂd worried about the size; my SeijoâÂÂs taste great, but I only get a spoonful to eat from each one. But Nikita seems a little larger, & I like unique tastes.

At a pear tasting in Houston last week, a guy raved about his hyakume, so I guess IâÂÂll try one of those. IâÂÂm not sure which type he has, & Dallas is nothing like Houston, so who knows what will happen.

Seems a shame that out of the 30+ varieties being sold in nurseries, the differentiator seems to be ripening time & cold hardiness. All nonastringents seem to taste the same, & thereâÂÂs only 3-4 unique tasting astringents.

Tanenashi & Great Wall are the only persimmons IâÂÂve seen anything negative about taste wise; maybe thatâÂÂs to be expected if they all taste about the same.

thanks,

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 10:51AM
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creekweb(6,7)

I used to not be such a fan, but I've come around so that I have a Great Wall tree that's probably my favorite overall tree in my orchard. This is largely because I've learned that Great Wall fruit dries very well. But the tree is arguably the most cold hardy of the kakis, extremely productive, very reliable, dwarfed with tightly packed foliage that makes it easily the most aesthetically pleasing of my kakis. Some years the leaves turn to a rich red for a striking display.

    Bookmark   August 27, 2013 at 1:35PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

creekweb,

I'm glad you piped in. I decided to get a Great Wall and I was beginning to believe I would be disappointed.

    Bookmark   August 27, 2013 at 2:51PM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Ok, I just had my first cinnamon. Like a fuyu with a cinnamon taste, so it's unique; I like unique

    Bookmark   September 2, 2013 at 2:03PM
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