Black Vs. Red Raspberries

Skim94September 22, 2013

Before knowing what I know now, I had planted black and red raspberries too near each other, and now I'm trying to ID which is which in order to transplant. The berries are all gone, and most shoots are this year's growth.

Do both varieties droop down and resprout upon hitting the ground? Also, if this happens and such a stem grows roots, but hasn't yet sprouted a new shoot, will transplanting work to grow a new plant?

Google hasn't been much help.

Thanks for any info!

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It's usually the black raspberries that make new plants from the tips of the new growth (it's called tip layering), reds don't do that; generally, I think the black raspberries also have more whitish undersides of leaves, and, if you gently rub a stem with your thumbnail the black raspberry will turn greenish.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2013 at 7:30PM
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Also the black raspberries have more pronounced thorns. I never get bothered much by the reds but the blacks are painful to harvest sometimes, or prune, for that matter. The reds put up suckers, but that's probably not much help, since the suckers come up a long way from the plant sometimes.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2013 at 9:44PM
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The black raspberries have a purple cast to their mature canes and the thorns are much worse.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2013 at 12:41AM
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Are you transplanting them proactively just because you read they shouldn't be planted near each other, or because of an actual problem?

Just curious, because I read all over the place that black rasps shouldn't be planted near red/yellow/purple rasps, but every single person that I've heard of that was speaking from their actual experience has never actually had any problems with them being near each other.

I have blacks within a couple feet from reds/purples and yellows that I just added, and figured I shouldn't worry, bc it seemed like the warning was more like a myth or outdated advice or something.

Drew51, you seem to be the raspberry aficionado around here, so, if you're reading this, do you have blacks near non-black rasps? If so, have you ever experienced any of the viral transmission issues the nurseries caution?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2013 at 3:13PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"do you have blacks near non-black rasps?"

Yes. As long as you have virus free stock it should be OK. I guess blacks are prone to getting these viruses, and reds are more resistant. But if an infected black is next door, the reds come down with it. In the past many blacks were sold that were infected. The advice still has some merit. You are increasing your chances of infection with blacks nearby. But today most stock is clean, and as long as you clean up dead canes, provide good air circulation by limiting cane numbers (6 inch spacing), limit stress to the plants, i.e avoid common infection routes. it's a lot safer to plant together. I have two black raspberries, and they are close to the reds. The usual distance between them reccommended would put them in my neighbhors yard, and he isn't keen on the idea! Some nurseries say do not, some say it is ok. We just went over why. I guess if it happened to me, I would eliminate the blacks, but I want to eat my cake and have it too! If I do have virul problems. i will eliminate all raspberries for a few years and grow other crops there. I could use the trellis to grow cucumbers, and pole beans, and vines for a few years. And no longer plant blacks, but until it happens, I'm planting both.
Off subject, i saw honey bees working the raspberries today. I have seen them on flowers but not on my plants till now. Only bumble bees this year. Last year I had yellowjackets, not eating the fruit but collecting necotr from the flowers. It must be a good type? A few different species exist. The heavy spring rains killed most yellowjackets this year.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Wed, Sep 25, 13 at 17:06

    Bookmark   September 25, 2013 at 4:51PM
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Drew, I had a feeling you'd see that question.

That's basically what I thought.

I am going to take my chances for now by keeping my blacks. Have you ever heard of anyone that had reds that were actually infected by blacks?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2013 at 5:14PM
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I grow both, and there is but a four foot isle between them. No problem. I also live in a rural area, however, and wild black raspberries are rather common. I did plan my beds to be removed from their immediate vicinity.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2013 at 7:23PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Good point about the wild brambles. So many are at my cottage that I decided not to grow any domesticated types there. They are of great concern as far as carrying diseases. I actually enjoy foraging the brambles there. My wild raspberry jam was the best raspberry jam i ever made according to friends and extended family I passed out jars to. The wild reds are best! I was thinking of planting some wild types up there. Wineberry, R. parvifolius and R. Ludwigii. But worry about their invasive nature.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2013 at 12:06AM
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Black Raspberries are completely worth keeping. Limited on space and it's the only raspberry I've planted as well as adding more this Fall. Multiple sites said not to propagate from your current stock but to purchase from a supplier that can guarantee disease free plants and not sure how the plants will handle being transplanted(blacks like being planted a little deeper than reds). Also not so much worrying that reds/purp/gold rasp will catch diseases from your blacks but that the blacks are less resistant and will easily become diseased from aphids blown from your other rasp varieties. Blacks do spread and root from cane tips if not properly pruned, oops that's me. So far so good at remaining disease free here; even though the property is small there is an abundance of wild, unruly bramble starts. Life is too short, plant what you want. Or you have plenty of time, try it out as it is adjust later if you notice a problem. Good luck :)

    Bookmark   September 26, 2013 at 9:07PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"Also not so much worrying that reds/purp/gold rasp will catch diseases from your blacks but that the blacks are less resistant and will easily become diseased from aphids blown from your other rasp varieties"

That's a really good point too. Many reds are asymptomatic. i.e. not showing any signs of disease. But no blacks are! So your point is also if not more so the problem. As the reds are fine at times with a virus, but blacks never are.
Yeah my first year Allen has managed to root twice elsewhere in the bed growing 10 ft canes with ease. It's really aggressive in wanting to spread. I pulled both back and cut the cane down to 6 feet. I could have used the newly rooted cane to start a new plant, but have no room.
Sneakly little bramble! I watch the bed, yet it still manged to root not once but twice without me catching it.
I planted Jewel also, but it didn't bud out. A replacement is coming next spring. I'm putting it with the blackberries. The blacks act more like blackberries.
I will also be growing numerous other Rubus species as time and space allow. i have seen about 10 different species for sale out there that will grow here. I saw many that would not too.A cool genus. Just for fun.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2013 at 10:36PM
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I had neglected the patch for a while. Last year I planted reds, as well as blackberries, about six feet from the black raspberries ("blacks"). Being a newbie, I thought both had died. This year they returned, sprouting everywhere and choking out half the bed.

I did little at first because I assumed the new shoots were black raspberries tip layering, and I was more interested in producing new canes to transplant than in bearing more fruit at this stage. Only when reds flowered in August did I realize what had occurred. They truly are invasive!

Anyone can buy reds, but blacks are harder to come by, so I've torn out most of the known reds (and blackberries), transplanting only a few to a new bed. A quackgrass infestation is making the situation more urgent; every new black shoot that I think can survive is going to a new bed, while a few unknowns are going to pots. I realize spring is the ideal time, but the quackgrass needs to disappear before it worsens.

Thanks to all for the advice so far.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2013 at 11:30PM
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Drew51: "I planted Jewel also, but it didn't bud out. A replacement is coming next spring..."

I put some Jewels in this year and noticed that on several they would bud, grow about 1" and then die; I think they were being killed by aphids that I noticed later on. Since spraying for them the few new buds have done fine. Might be happening to you?

    Bookmark   September 27, 2013 at 9:17AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

My Jewel never budded out at all. So no, just got a bad one. The replacement is free, I made a claim. I got mine from Raintree Nursery. The others from them were fine. Rather small, but grew just as well as the big ones from other nursuries. I really liked Indiana Berry. Huge plants best price too! A rare combination! I always look there first.
I'm moving in a few years will have to start over. Well unless the SWD fruitfly stops me and it very well may! Seen in my county, but I'm in the middle of suburbia in the south end. The north side of the county has farms. If they hit here I'm done with brambles.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2013 at 11:12AM
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skyjs(z8 OR, USA)

We have our blacks next to reds, touching. No problems. Blacks native here.

Black raspberries, called black caps here locally , are the #1 tool to fight against oral cancer, one of the top ten cancers. Even in a hospital, they smear the fruit on the lesions. I am going to grow more of them because I don't want cancer.
John S

    Bookmark   September 28, 2013 at 7:43PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

I grew Jewel for 3 years and pulled them out this spring. I'm suspicious that there was a virus, but am not sure. The leaves were pale and discolored, with a low yield. They aren't more than 10 feet from some red and yellow raspberries, but I'm not seeing any impact there. I replaced the Jewel with blueberries, thinking I could reuse the trellis to hang netting for the birds.

    Bookmark   September 28, 2013 at 10:47PM
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