Questions re: hardy oriental persimmons (i.e. 'Ichikikei jiro' )

njbiologySeptember 18, 2008

Hi,

It looks like 'Ichi-ki-kei jiro' would be the best choice in a small, self-fruitful oriental persimmon (non-astringent) for zone 6 (NJ).

Some sites say it grows to only 8' and others say 10', but another says 20' tall and 6' wide.

1.If left unpruned for a decade or so, could I get it to grow around 15'?

2.Would this be the closest, taste-wise, to the common tomato-shaped persimmons in the store (i.e. brand: 'Sharon'), for zone 6 in trees smaller then 20'wide?

3.How many pounds of fruit does a mature 'Ichikikei jiro' produce?

This sounds like a very small tree/and the same in terms of production.

Thanks,

Steve

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shane11

From many I have talked with and the little personal experience I have it seems that gwangyang might be better in colder zones. A lot of asian persimmons are susceptable to SDS. I lost a 7 year old and productive ichi about 5 years back to SDS. Gwangyang has been very resistant so far. I have heard the same thing from other growers.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2008 at 3:25PM
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alexander3_gw(6 Pennsylvania)

A quick google search does not turn up anything obvious, so I'll ask.....what is SDS?

    Bookmark   September 26, 2008 at 7:29PM
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sautesmom

"Some darn spot"???

I was wondering the same thing..

Carla in Sac

    Bookmark   September 26, 2008 at 9:58PM
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olga_6b

My siter and me both grow Jiro and Ichikikei jiro in zone 6b, in MD.
My trees are younger, but hers are approx 12-15 feet tall Jiro and even taller for IJ ( 5-6 years, non pruned).
Jiro gives more fruits for us. The amount of fruits depends on year and water (do you plan to water the tree during dry spring) Jiro gives more fruits so far for me. Taste is similar between these two and close to the store bought, but better :)
One tree of Jiro can give more persimmons then a family of 6 can consume. They can be stored for long time of course, but still it is a lot of persimmons in good year.
Olga

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 7:42AM
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njbiology

Hi Olga,

Very interesting, because: I thought that (1) Ichi-ki-kei Jiro was not supposed to get greater then around 10' and that Jiro was supposed to get comparatively bigger then Ichi-ki-kei Jiro; and (2) I thought that Jiro wouldn't make it in 6b... since 6b is 6b, I guess your 6b MD winter is as harsh as my 6b Northern New Jersey winter.

I'm also glad that you say it's even better then the store. I hope to find these in local nurseries in the spring (they aren't this fall), rather then ordering online.

Shane: Do you think that a spray could save the tree during a bad year's blight? I don't know if I want to go for that comparatively less-spoken-of cultivar...

Btw, does anyone know the life-span of these cultivated trees? I read a website that stated '10 years'. That would be unfortunate.

Thanks,
Steve

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 12:07PM
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olga_6b

I usually get more winter dieback on IJ then on Jiro. Jiro basically had no dieback for me during last two winters and IJ, which is one year older, still gets some dieback.
Olga

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 12:14PM
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olga_6b

One more thing. I think main reason IJ gets more dieback is that this variety keeps growning in late summer and fall. Young growth get killed in winter. Jiro is much wiser for me and doesn't produce a lot of young growth from July on. Due to the same reason (longer growing season), I believe, IJ is taller tree. Both are in full sun in similar location and get the same care.
Olga

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 1:19PM
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bonsaist(Z6/ Bethlehem, Pa)

SDS:
Sudden Death Syndrome.
a quote from LuckyP "Manganese(Mn) deficiency was proposed as a possible cause of Kaki Sudden Death Syndrome in kaki(Asian) persimmons grafted onto D.virginiana understock. "

Bass

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 3:32PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Steve, I have not heard of Ichikikei Jiro as being particularly hardy and would be curious where you read that. I have Jiro and Fuyu and they have made it for five winters here. My Fuyu is loaded now. I would also consider a PVNA type, to me they are the tastiest. They need a pollinator and are non-astringent if pollinated. The only one that is very hardy in that group is Maru. I had an early Chocolate a few days ago, another PVNA -- YUM!!

Scott

    Bookmark   September 27, 2008 at 10:11PM
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olga_6b

Scott, do you grow Maru tree? How big it can get here in MD?
Olga

    Bookmark   September 28, 2008 at 2:06PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Olga, I have some very small Marus I just grafted last year. The reason why I know it does well here is the tree I got the scionwood from has been growing on the eastern shore of Maryland for perhaps 40 years. My vague recollection was the tree was 15-20' tall. It was interesting to see how different the heights on the old trees were, some were monsters and some were tiny. The Yotsumizo was only 8' after 40+ years of growing, and some must have been 30' tall. These trees were on the Wye plantation.

Scott

    Bookmark   September 28, 2008 at 3:01PM
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shane11

SDS is also believed to be connected or aggrivated by late spring and early fall frost when the persimmon is not in dormancy. Varieties that seem to be immune to this problem for me are gwang yang, saijo, korean (kyungsun ban si), goboshi (smiths best), sheng, and great wall. Hana fuyu is also supposed to be resistant.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2008 at 11:18AM
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olga_6b

Thank you Scott. I will try to buy Maru. It looks really interesting.I will need to prune it though, don't have space for big tree.
Olga

    Bookmark   September 30, 2008 at 8:53PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Olga, I keep all my persimmons at 8' tall by summer pruning.

Bay Laurel is selling Maru now. I am not completely sure that the Maru they are selling is the same one doing well in Maryland because Maru is considered a "type" of persimmon and not a variety - sort of like Fuyu. It probably will be similar however.

Scott

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 9:24AM
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olga_6b

Scott, thank you. This is perfect. I will order from Bay Laurel. When do you usually summer prune? I never pruned my persimmons and they are getting too big.
Olga

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 9:57AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Olga, I tend to prune whenever they look too tall on top. I think this summer I did it in early June and later August.

Scott

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 11:27AM
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olga_6b

Thank you. I will do it next summer. I was afraid that it would stimulate late growth. Good to know I can do it.
Olga

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 9:20PM
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njbiology

Hi, Scott,

Will 'Saijo' Asian Persimmon pollinate 'Maru' (PVNA)? I definitely want to get, not only 'Saijo', but a PVNA thanks to your recommendation. Unfortunately, 'Chocolate' doesn't seem to be hardy to zone 6, but 'Maru' seems to be. I will plant both trees (Saijo/Maru, that is).

1. Will they cross-pollinate enough?
2. If the 'Maru' doesn't get pollinated, will it be edible after it softens still, and yet just not edible when firm, or will it be inedible at all stages if pollinated.

Thanks,
Steve

    Bookmark   March 9, 2009 at 10:43PM
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