successive ripening blackberry varieties?

lsohOctober 29, 2013

After reading reports on blackberry varieties on this forum, I'm interested in the following blackberry / hybrid varieties based on reports of flavor. (I live in zone 5, but they will be grown in pots and overwintered inside.) I'm just a backyard gardener growing for fresh eating, so I'm looking for successive ripening. After researching, I'm guessing that the varieties I'm considering ripen in the following order:

Wyeberry
Siskiyou, Boysenberry (pretty much at the same time?)
Newberry (aka ruby boysenberry), black diamond, osage (pretty much same time?)
Triple Crown
Navaho

Can anyone correct or confirm any portion of the ripening order listed above?

I prefer fruit that is delicious fresh with only a little sugar at most. Am I missing a potential variety that is sweet enough on it's own? Any other suggestions regarding the varieties on the list?

Any ideas where to get wyeberry? After speaking with them several times, it sounds like edible landscaping has dropped them.

Thanks.

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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I was one of the last people to obtain a wyeberry, and it may not survive my winter. If it does I will consider root tipping some in the future. I think you may want to add a primocane blackberry. They produce a fall crop on primocanes. Giving you late season berries. Much like fall bearing raspberries. Btw my raspberries are still fruiting abet slowly with the cold weather.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 1:16PM
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larry_gene

Blackberries as a group are not commonly perceived as sweet fruit when eaten fresh, but rather a complex flavor and usually on the tart side. So either you enjoy the berry flavor, or else add sugar in varying amounts. Consider using stevia powder instead of sugar. The Triple Crown will likely be the sweetest berry of your selected varieties.

A month is a long time for any one blackberry varietal to be of prime quality; with the exception of adding the primocane-fruiting variety, you might get a two-month harvest period out of the bunch. Loganberry is quite early, but is more raspberry-like.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 1:18AM
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charlieboring

Since your using pots, I assume you are more interested in thornless. If not, a food successive group is as follows: Arapaho - early to mid June; Chicashaw - Mid June; Cherokee - Late June; Navaho - Early July; Black Satin - Mid July; Apache or Triple Crown - Late July to Early Aug; Black Magic - Two times, June and September

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 7:26AM
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jtburton

Isoh,

I have been growing all of the varieties you mentioned except for Wyeberry. I started all of the trailing varieties in pots and overwintered most of them last year. If you want maximum production though, you are going to need a very large pot - 30 gallon to have much production. Triple Crown blackberry plants are huge, so I would maybe think twice about trying to grow that one in a pot.

Most of my trailing blackberries ripened around the same time (mid-June), based on my climate and the fact that they were indoors for a couple of weeks during the coldest part of the winter. Osage is new but supposed to ripen in mid-July, earlier in southern climates. Triple Crown and Navaho were in late-July through mid-August.

I would second Drew51's suggestion on primocane-fruiting blackberries. My Prime Ark 45's ripen in Late-June/ Early-July and after September 1st to the first freeze, although they seem to be still producing berries after several freezes somehow. Black Magic is another variety worth considering. If you want just the Fall crop, you could keep only a primocane crop and cut them down each season. You wouldn't have to grow them in pots this way.

I'm moved most of my trailing blackberries into ground earlier this year and they grew easily twice the size. I'm going to try covering them this winter to see if I can keep them going.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 8:50AM
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shazaam(NC 7B)

Isoh:

Pense Nursery in AR might have wye berry plants. Their webpage has a heading for tayberries, but the description that follows is definitely for wyeberries. Since I'd like to find some, as well, I sent them an e-mail for clarification. I'll be happy to let you know what I find out.

Since you're going to grow in pots (I'll be doing the same next year), I'm also curious about how you plan to train the trailing varieties. I recall a photo that fruitnut shared a while back in which he'd wound them in circles. That seemed to work well, but I've also been thinking about putting one of my homemade remesh tomato cages in a pot and winding them around that.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 8:29PM
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lsoh

Thanks all, for sharing your ideas.

shazaam,
Please share what you here from Pense.

I've been growing triple crown blackberries in pots for 2 years and a boysenberry for 1. I've been using a rectangular frame made out of pvc pipe. I'm using 14 gallon rubbermaid rough totes with holes drilled in the bottom. The frame consists of one vertical piece of pvc pipe in each corner, maybe 4' tall?. Then a horizontal square of pvc pipes ties them together at the top. Looks sort of like a box kite. This works. But it's less than ideal with the new canes growing while the old canes are fruiting. I'm thinking that the next one will still be 4 vertical posts, but each post in the MIDDLE of a pot's side. Then create a horizontal cross of pvc pipe to tie them together at the top. Then, similar to fruitnut's approach, wrap one year's canes in a hoop using only 2 opposing verticle pipes. That leaves the other 2 pipes free for the next year's vines.

Seems like the issue to address is managing new canes versus old. Please share the ideas you come up with.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 9:24PM
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shazaam(NC 7B)

Unfortunately, Pense only has tayberries -- no wyeberries. Apparently, demand is so low that the lab (tissue culture, I suppose?) that supplies them no longer provides Wyeberry starts.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2013 at 10:57AM
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lsoh

shazaam,
Thanks

Drew51,
You may have cornered the market on wyeberries. I hope you are thinking of going into business.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2013 at 11:12AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

If I sold them, it would take all the fun out of it. As long as it makes it through this winter (it is a small plant, I begged edible landscapes for it anyway, they didn't want to send such a small plant), I'll offer some plants for others for sure next year, if another nursery doesn't offer them. Ironic as nobody has Kiwi Gold raspberry either, and I got one of the last one of those too! Great raspberry! Wyeberry, not sure how great it is really? But just not to let it disappear, I will propagate it.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2013 at 5:26PM
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lsoh

After reading a little on black magic, it does sound interesting. But I'm not seeing it on the on-line nurseries I usually check. Does anyone know a reputable source for black magic blackberries?

Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 11:05PM
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jtburton

Gurneys and Henry Fields (same company) have them for sale and they may be the only ones. Even with the usual 50% off coupons, the plants run a bit expensive at around $13 each. Shipping tends to be reasonable though.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 8:36AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Someone once told me that some companies use old non copyrighted cultivars and rename them. Nothing illegal about that. Gurneys and Henry Fields may be doing this? I have heard they did it with a raspberry plant. Although they do seem to come up with some interesting plants like the Nectacot. Obviously not an old cultivar, but something they developed.
Some companies just trademark the name with no copyright. So one can sell these exact same plants under another name legally.
In any event they are good at marketing! Which to me is a good thing as it makes other companies stay competitive and try to produce desirable plants.
No doubt the nectacot is a response to what Zaiger has been doing. It works both ways.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 8:53AM
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lsoh

Drew51,

I too am a skeptic given that it appears that only Gurneys and Henry Fields carry them. Neither of those nurseries have a top reputation either. However,

1) Black Magic are primocane fruiting blackberries. If "black magic" is a renamed, remarketed variety, as far as I know there are only a handful of other existing primocane varieties. The other primocane varieties that I'm aware of are Prime Jim, Prime Jan, and Prime-Ark 45. Those are pretty new and I would expect those varieties would still be patented. Maybe they could still rebrand them?

2) I only found independent information on black magic at these 2 links.
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/freepubs/pdfs/AGRS097i.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/mjklin/blackberry-variety-primer
The first link is an article from the college of agricultural Sciences at Penn State. That article outlines bramble varieties for PA. Included are Prime-Jan, Prime-Jim, Prime-Ark 25, and Black Magic. And they describe black magic differently than the other 3.
The second link is a slide show from Virginia State University, then restamped from NC State University. The topic is "Blackberry Variety Primer". The primocane blackberries they cover are the same 4 primocane fruiting blackberries.
Given the pressure to publish, it's possible that these folks didn't do their homework either. But Penn State, Virginia State, and NC State have put their name on docs representing "Black Magic" as a legitamte variety.

But still, very little info available. Sounds interesting. But I'm a bit of a skeptic too.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 10:44PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Isoh,

Excellent info, it certainly is worth trying. I'm adding two or three more cultivars this spring. Yet to decide which?

This post was edited by Drew51 on Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 2:06

    Bookmark   December 5, 2013 at 12:18AM
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lsoh

Is anyone growing black magic? Is so, can you comment on flavor or fall yield? Or any other thoughts?

Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 12:13PM
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jtburton

Here's what I came up with:

APF-77 (now marketed as Black Magic)

⢠In June 2006, six selections of primocane-fruiting blackberries from the UA breeding program (APF-27, APF-40, APF-41, APF-42, APF-46, and APF-77).
APF-77 (now marketed as Black Magic⢠in the United States) can be recommended for home growers and has commercial value for local markets including pick-your-own or on-farm sales that require no or only limited fruit storage time.
⢠Even production in tunnels does not lengthen the season enough to mature the full crop of Prime-Ark 45 and Black Magic.

Black Magic
⢠Large fruit but too soft for commercial production.
⢠Excellent flavor.
⢠Sweetest of the primocane-fruiting blackberries.
⢠Very late, causing yields to be low

The ripening time for Black Magic appears to be the same as Prime Ark-45. In 6B, Prime Ark-45 starts to ripen in early July and again in early Sept. until it gets too cold in November.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 12:58PM
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lsoh

Thanks. You guys have given me some great information. I am interested in Black Magic. But I'm reluctant to buy from Gurney's or Henry Field's (Doesn't mean I won't.) There reputation isn't very good. Is Black Magic difficult to find because it looks great for home growers but not that good commercially? Or maybe it has just been released? (I couldn't find a release date.) If it's just been released, maybe another nursery will offer it this spring?

What do you guys think?

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 11:18PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

It's hard to say? Many cultivars disappear fast. I'm not waiting for The everbearing black raspberry to be picked up by other nurseries, I'm ordering it from Henry Fields.
Well waiting for a sale, it is outrageously expensive. They got us, as they know many of us will buy it anyway, and they're right!
These nurseries are willing to pay more to breeders for exclusive distribution rights. Bet that is true for Black Magic.
And Sweet Repeat black raspberry.
I think Garden's Alive owns them? If I developed a cultivar, you bet I would wave it under their nose first!

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 11:30PM
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gator_rider2(z8 Ga.)

Black Magic turns back Red after pick not good for commercial market. I may get some for trap crop for insects. Deer like big food plot of black magic.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 6:01AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

"Black Magic turns back Red after pick "

They should have called it red magic! If I saw red berries the size of blackberries at a market, i would have to buy them!

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 7:17AM
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jtburton

Drew51,

Here's a good article on the "everbearing black raspberry" I mentioned: http://www.growingproduce.com/fruits-nuts/commentary-a-new-double-cropping-black-raspberry/

I'm tempted to pick up a couple of plants to try as well.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 10:54AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Good article! OK, now I really want one! I wonder if the sweet repeat is Niwot?

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 12:33PM
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lsoh

You guys are a terrible influence. Thank you.

Drew51,
This link for sweet repeat at henry fields says "cv.'Niwot'" under the photo.
http://www.henryfields.com/product/Sweet_Repeat_Black_Raspberry/small-fruit-and-berries

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 12:41PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Good catch awesome! It had to be Niwot! Now where to put it.. It's cool the trait comes from a black raspberry, so it's probably all black raspberry in it's lineage.
Sorry to get off subject, but Rubus plants are very cool. So many others besides raspberries and blackberries look desirable. I'm growing from seed the giant Chinese raspberry

Here is a link that might be useful: The Giant Raspberries of Jilin

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 5:12PM
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lsoh

Drew51,

Don't apologize for "off subject". Others may feel differently, but I like ideas. If one thought leads to another, great.

Let us know what you think about those giant raspberries.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2013 at 6:49PM
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WSysock

I started my berry patch last year around June with WOW Black Magic plants here in Orlando, FL. Zone 9. WOW is a mature plant being sold by a few online companies. I also planted Nachez, Prime-Ark 45 and Triple Crown. The Nachez and Prime-Ark 45 plants only fruited a little due to my late start. The Black Magic grew quickly and started fruiting by August. The plants continued to flower and fruit through our FL winter. The early fruit was a nice size and got larger as we got into our mild winter. I have actually picked berries each and ever month through the winter and picked some on March 1st. I am talking a few berries here and there. I think the plants have not figured out their cycle yet here in FL. Most of them have lost their leaves over winter but some continued to grow. They did develop buds during the winter and in the last week they started opening up and flowering. Looks like I will be having a nice crop of blackberries. My other 3 plants show buds, but have not opened up yet. Just the Black Magic so far.
I had contacted John Clark when I ordered the Black Magic plant and he said that some places are selling them. So that eased my concern. Then in early July I read a patent was applied for on the APF-77 Black Berry plant. It did not call it Black Magic. When I looked a the patent photos it definitely looked like the plants I have that were marketed as the Black Magic(APF-77). Over all I am very pleased with the Black Magic here in FL for 2 reasons. It seemed to handle our summer heat and because of our mild winter continue to fruit pretty much all winter.

I received my 10 TC Prime-Ark Freedom plants from Nourse Farms and planted them on February 28th, 2014. Placed the order back in October. They still do not list them on their website. You would have to call and order them. I hope they are as productive as the Black Magic. Supposedly they fruit earlier and have a bigger berry. It is a very promising plant. Can't wait to see.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 11:57AM
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lsoh

WSysock,

Do you know what name that the patent used for APF-77?

Thanks.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 12:30PM
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    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 7:52PM
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WSysock

Update on my blackberry plants as of 2014-05-16.

The 10 Prime-Ark Freedom plants are looking good. they are around 2-3 feet tall at this time. With 1 of them a runt plant. Maybe 1 foot tall . I am pretty sure the soil was not as prepared as for the rest of the plants so that pretty much shows me soil prep is so important when developing a new blackberry patch. TC and planted 2014-02-28

The Black Magic or APF-77 plants have had some ripe Blackberries this past week and in another week should be kicking into high gear with a ton of berries getting ripe. They are by far my best plants here in Orlando, FL. WOW(full grown) Plants purchased online and planted June 2013.

Triple crown are hardly growing and only have had a few flowers. Bare root planted in June 2013.

Prime-Ark 45 starting growing nicely with a few ripe berries and more to come. Grown from TC June 2013.

Natchez - Has grown nicely and has unripe berries and more flowers appearing. Gallon size purchased at Lowes in June 2013.

1 Like    Bookmark   May 16, 2014 at 9:08AM
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gator_rider2(z8 Ga.)

WSysock

Thanks for post on plants I've eat few blackberreis last 4 days off Tuby plan picking Saturday after noon.
Got blackmagic plant April 10th set couple flowers in 2 weeks after planting, now bush cover up 2' tall and growing.

    Bookmark   May 16, 2014 at 9:42PM
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Jay Part Shade (Zone 10B, S21, Los Angeles)

Hey Wsysock, love what you're doing with the blackberries -- can you give an update?

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 10:12AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I'm happy with the recent additions of Columbia Star, and Black Diamond. I want trailing types I can protect, these both are, and both thornless too. Blackberry crop will be small this year due to winter damage. I'll be a lot more prepared next winter.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 12:26PM
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jtburton

I have been summer tipping my Prime-Ark 45's and have some berries on the floricanes that are just starting to turn red. I also have some primocanes that are also starting to show flower buds, so there may be some overlap this year on the fruiting. I lost over half of the floricanes to the cold weather this year, so as a hardiness test, Prime-Ark 45 will start having cane damage at 0F.

My Triple crown's are 75% post-bloom with small green berries now. These tend to ripen here in mid-to-late July.

My Ouchita have been post bloom for a couple of weeks but are probably a week or two behind the Prime-Ark 45 floricanes.

Black Satin is the last berry to bloom and is still at 50% bloom stage.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 8:11PM
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betauserz

Of interest to all I think...

Two newest Blackberries coming down the pipe....

Sweetie Pie Blackberry
" A new thornless blackberry cultivar called ‘Sweetie Pie’ was released that is resistant to disease but tastes delicious. This cultivar, tested as MSUS119, came from a cross between ‘Navaho’ and MSUS29. MSUS29 is a seedling from a cross of [Humble x Brazos] x Navaho. ‘Sweetie Pie’ was selected at Poplarville, Mississippi in 1996. It was subsequently propagated and tested at McNeill, Mississippi, as well as in trial plantings in Louisiana and Arkansas. ‘Sweetie Pie’ grows vigorously and produces numerous floricanes, which are thornless and have a trailing growth habit. ‘Sweetie Pie’ is resistant to Rosette disease (double blossom), one of the most limiting factors in growing blackberries in the southern United States. It's berries are medium size, glossy, black, and with have excellent flavor due to high soluble solids content. ‘Sweetie Pie’ lacks sufficient firmness for use as commercial cultivar, but its outstanding flavor and high sugar content make it a desirable cultivar for homeowners and U-Pick operations. ‘Sweetie Pie’ ripens mid-late season (mid June–late July in South MS) and can be propagated easily from softwood and root cuttings. ‘Sweetie Pie’ grows well in raised beds having a pH of 6.0 – 7.0 that are amended with organic matter."
Source: http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects/projects.htm?ACCN_NO=414408&fy=2013

Prime Ark Traveler
John Clark - Arkansas bred plant.
Newest successor to Prime Ark Freedom
The 1st Primocane Fruiting, Thornless blackberry with shipping qualities - something that was lacking in P.A. Freedom
7 gram berries - medium
9-11% Soluble Solids - reduced acid
Source: https://youtu.be/AA1-il6wbfU

( N.C. Commerical Blackberry & Raspberry Growers Association meeting )

Both of these plants are in tissue propagation and will probably be available next year

    Bookmark   March 14, 2015 at 3:19PM
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