Surround WP Effectiveness And Appication Schedule

thapranksta(Mid TN 7A)November 15, 2013

For those of you who have used Surround WP, what has been your personal experience? Also, what is the general application schedule?

Thanks.

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windfall_rob(vt4)

I have had very effective controll of PC as well as some minor pests who's season overlaps
But it is a lot of applications depending on the weather. At least three sprays to build good coverage and then touch up after heavy/prolonged rain.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 9:34PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

What Rob said, more or less. I only do two to build up but I put 3c/gallon which is pretty thick. It works very well on PC if the timing is good. It also works well for Japanese beetles and stinkbugs.

Scott

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 9:23PM
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alan haigh

I find this interesting as I haven't tinkered with my weekly schedule for 4 weeks starting at petal fall. Sounds like, up here, we could get away with three.

I've found control of PC adequate, but not great. However, I don't do the actual spraying and don't have complete assurance of best timing.

Had an awful lot of mite damage on apples with this program last year.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 7:10AM
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thapranksta(Mid TN 7A)

I realize this is a newb question but how do you tell the difference between damage from plum curculio and oriental fruit moth? I had several tiny holes in my first peach crop this year which left pectin oozing out and larvae inside...not sure what I am dealing with here.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 5:43PM
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thapranksta(Mid TN 7A)

Do any of you guys bag in addition to using Surround?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 4:55PM
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quillfred

Some of us use footies pre-soaked in Surround on apples and pears. I will touch up once or twice after heavier rains. The footie retains Surround better than not having the barrier. I haven't tried plastic or bag bags yet.

I have had excellent luck against the apple maggots and coddling moths which are our biggest problem pests here.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 5:18PM
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mamuang_gw

I've found that timing of when to protect the fruit is very important. I've bagged my peaches with Surround-soaked footsies for the past 3 year (including this year). The first two years were great.

This year, Plum curculio and Oriental Fruit moth attacked my peaches and Asian pears much sooner than previous years. I tried to put footsies only on the undamaged peaches. In the end, half (or more) of my peaches that grew to size were damaged, evidently by PC and OFM.

I have never sprayed to protect Asian pears before. My good luck ran out this year, about 30% of A. pears had some damages from the bugs. Pear skin is tougher than peaches and the fruit grows faster. I think that's why the damages on them were not as extensive as peaches . I'll spray them next year.

I would not put footsies and spray Surround together. I'd do one or the other. I think I'll switch to spray Surround next year. After putting footsies on over 200 peaches this year, I was tired of it.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 6:17PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Pranksta, curculio eats the seed and OFM doesn't. So if the fruit falls its curc. Ooze is usually OFM since it leaves an open wound whereas curc doesn't. Curc is active more early season, OFM more later. Take a bug and put it on your hand, if it can walk its OFM, if it just flails its a curc (there are no feet on a curc).

I did some tests with footies but the work of 1000+ footies for me is what led to my switch to spraying.

Scott

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 2:32PM
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northwoodswis4

The past two years I was away from home in spring until the applets were about 1/4" in diameter, so could not give them a post-bloom spraying of Surround. I bagged them at 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter, by which time some had PC marks. Of the 2000 bagged, about 3/4 of them dropped both years. Is that the experience of the rest of you that bagged apples, or was it PCs causing that? My intention has been to spray with Surround until the apples were big enough to bag, but things are not working out that way due to family obligations. It was quite an effort bagging 2000 apples.
Northwoodswis

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 2:47PM
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thapranksta(Mid TN 7A)

scott,

Based on that, I may have had problems with both. I saw plenty of ooze but I also had problems with fruit fall. At the end, I had only 4 peaches left on my tree out of probably 15. All the others had fallen off. I know these pests will be back spring next year especially since I didn't know to dispose of the fallen fruit asap. That's why it is crucial that I have a plan of action ready to go.

I'd like to stay organic but I also recognize that may make things even more challenging.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 3:55PM
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mamuang_gw

Scott and North,

I admire your tenacity. I gave up at 200+ peaches with footsies, long before the 1000 you both did.

I've found that putting footsies on peaches is a lot more time-consuming than baggging apples with plastic bags. I can bag apples much faster and more efficiently.

North - in 2012, I bagged apples late. Many were damaged from coddling moths and some PC. I bagged apples earlier this year, soon after petal fall. I did thin them before I bagged, at an early stage. I don't wait for June drop. I've found that with early thinning, I did not suffer many June drops like what I read from other posters. Apple thinning is easier than pears because it's easy to recognize king fruit in each cluster. It's harder to figure which pears to thin out in a cluster.

With earlier bagging of apples, I had very good success this year. My apples (both William's Pride and Honey Crisp) were perfect. My friends could not believe how clean the apples were but they believed it because I let them pick the apples right from my trees.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 5:02PM
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thapranksta(Mid TN 7A)

Does anyone use a spreader sticker with Surround WP or is it not possible?

With the replies posted, it seemed like this program might be a little attention intensive. I purchased Spectracide triazicide and hope that does the trick. It looks like both of my plum trees have lost their petals although my peach still has its blooms so I think I should spray the plums sometime this weekend. Or should I wait until the peach tree loses its petals and spray them all together?

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 4:12PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Stickers should not be used for the final coat - if its on too good it won't come off on the bugs and they won't get irritated.

Spray timing is always a compromise, it depends on how much time you have and if there is any damage. Scouting for PC damage is helpful, if you don't see any you can hold off. I know a couple trees in my orchard they always hit early so I keep my eyes peeled on those.

Scott

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 6:34PM
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