Canadian druigs

orchidnickJune 3, 2010

I get all of the medications I use from the sample cabinets of my 2 MD kids and a personal internist friend. I don't bother with the medicare supplemental insurance for this reason.

Suddenly I'm up against a wall. One of my 'One a day' items is no longer being sampled by the manufacturer so I now have to actually buy it. Horror upon horror. Here is the price break down for a 1 month supply:

Walgren, cash - $132

Walmart, Cash - $82

Canadian internet pharmacy - $13

If I had the supplemental plan I dropped it would cost me $30 monthly premium plus a copay of $8 after meeting the $120 yearly deductible.

What is wrong with our BEST MEDICAL CARE IN THE WORLD where this kind of rip off is tolerated? It boogles the mind.


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arthurm(Sydney, NSW AUST)

Nick, i thought you had retired from the fray.
Here is what i take....
Drug 1 me $5.40 PBS Cost $10.27
Drug 2 me $5.40 PBS Cost $36.22
Drug 3 me $5.40 PBS Cost $110.25
Drug 4 me $5.40 PBS Cost $30.24

One months supply. I only get subsidised because i earn less than $80,000 a year and am a self funded retiree. No one, not even the very wealthy would pay the full price. For PBS items, the cost to others is, i think, is somewhere about $20-$25 a script.

Of course, this is Socialism or some other ism.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 10:02PM
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Nick, Will you please provide a name for the Canadian internet pharmacy?


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 12:12AM
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There are numerous others to choose from. These guys gave me the best price of the 5 or so I checked out.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 1:03AM
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"There are numerous others to choose from."

....which is why I asked. I trust your judgment more than the innumerable SPAM messages from Canadian pharmaceutical suppliers plying their ED products/potions.



    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 6:45AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

Arthur here is a very brief description of Socialism

"Socialists advocate complete nationalisation of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy."

I enjoy your snarky comments about my, and others, fear of Socialism but I'm also sure you do not actually follow what is going on here very closely. Again, sound bites, coming from a limited source don't give you an in-depth picture of the workings of this country and particularly the swift advances we've made down the socialist path the last few months.

Nick it is going to get worse. To get the backing of the drug companies for the health care bill, and the 10 billion donated to our government by the companies, the drug patents are now going from ten years to twelve years. Even Canada and Australia will be affected by this.

I told you months ago you chose the wrong Medigap insurance policy. Prescriptions are also cheaper if you use a mail in source here instead of getting them through a walk in dispensary.

You may be skating by without Medigap now but if you have a long serious illness/major accident/whatever, you will regreat relying on Medicare only.

Of course if you wait until 2014 when the new "ism" is in place, you can get someone to call up an insurance company and enroll you instantly so the insurance company picks up the cost Medicare won't pick up. It will be the Calvins in this country who will have their premiums go up since you delayed in getting coverage.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 6:59AM
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Stitz, I did not find them by responding to a email spam. They are on the first page of google under 'Cheap Canadian drugs'. They say it takes up to 18 business days for the meds to reach my door. I have no experience with them, I'll let you know if, when and how they produce.

Brook, what is the name of the coverage you say is good? It may not be available in Califormia, coverage varies from state to state. I discussed this with the pharmacist at Walgren who is talkative. He took his own mother off her coverage and is letting her go bare as he says that all the plans he sees going through their turnstiles are rip-offs. My daughter and the internist I am friends with, pass out the Canadian pharmacy number to people WHO HAVE COVERAGE as even with coverage some of the meds they are taking cost them less when ordered directly from Canada.

I'll just have to muddle through till 2014. All of my worldly possessions except the orchids, have been securely place in the names of my children so I'm fairly bullet proof in case of a serious financial hit like a prolonged cancer. I know this is gaming the system but there is so much corruption and featherbedding of the pharmaceuticals and insurance companies that I can't see myself contributing to their obscene profits.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 9:41AM
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Stitz, in addition to choosing the company it pays to research the particular drug you are buying. The only other drug I am buying because no samples are being passed out, is on Walmart's '$10 for a 90 day supply' list. Neither the Canadian pharmacists nor the pharmacies of Tijuana can match that.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 9:51AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

Nick by your own words "gaming the system". This means you are part of the problem.

Your plan sounds great for you - what happens when someone else is in charge of your condition? Your wife? Your kids? They either shoulder the burden or put you on Medicaid. We have additional insurance to make sure the remaining one doesn't go broke. It is similar to having home owners insurance - I pay it and pray I never have to use it.

Join AARP and see what they offer. Around here they offer four different options available to old folks. I hate AARP for selling out to the government run health care. You may ask why they sold out instead of protecting the interests of the old folks - they make money off the additional insurance. It helps their bottom line.

You rail against the "corruption and featherbedding of pharmaceuticals and insurance companies and you can't see yourself contributing to their obscene bottom line." You are correct - pharmaceuticals currently make a 20% profit. That profit margin should get larger now the government has extended their patent license from 10 to 12 years. If you don't want to contribute, quit buying their drugs.

The insurance companies profit margins are 4-6% - IMO, not a huge margin. Non-profit insurance companies don't make a profit.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 2:35PM
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I despise the system so much that I would do anything to help bring it down. Unfortunately it is not in my power to do so. "Gaming the system', damn right I'm gaming the system and will continue to do so until the leeches are removed.

The profit motive needs to be removed from health care just as it was removed from fire prevention, police departments and other functions of the gov we take for granted. How would you like it if the Air Traffic Controllers were part of a highly profitable group of companies whose main goal is to produce as much profit for their shareholders and their CEOs as possible. Of course certain airports could not be serviced as there are not enough high paying airlines using them thus producing too little profit.

Obama care is a baby step in the right direction, hopefully more will follow. If we actually did have the best health care in the world, I could swallow and live with it. A pregnant woman in the USA has 4 times the risk of dying as a result of her pregnancy than a Canadian woman. And that at double the cost.

Long live the profit motive!!!!!!!!!!!


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 3:27PM
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highjack(z6 KY)

As long as you admit you hate the system I don't mind you being honest. I happen to disagree with socialized medicine (easy Arthur I said it again) or government owned automobile companies, government owned mortgage companies, government owned loan agencies. Currently it is still a, mostly, free country.

I am tired though of the low esteem you and anyone else who believes the WHO statistics regarding this countries medical system. The link below will correct some of the spin the WHO puts out.

Then read this link about Great Britain's health care system

Here is a link to the Swedish system - you have to go about half way through the article before you get to the actual coverage - the first half describes payment/who pays for it and it will put you to sleep.

I will leave the Canadian comparison to our resident Canadian.

Even though I have asked numerous times, you have never given me an example of an entity successfully run by the Federal government that doesn't suck money out of the coffers to keep it running.

Since you hate profit so much, when you owned and run the 10 clinics in SoCal were they for profit? Or were they non-profit to only provide a needed service to the women? Did you pay yourself a nice wage or just a pittance?


PS - the fire and police departments are run by local governments except for the State police which is run by a state. I contribute my local and state taxes for these functions which are in addition to my federal taxes.

I do remember when the Air Traffic Controllers broke their Union agreement to never strike and Reagan fired them :>)

Here is a link that might be useful: statistics

    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 6:57PM
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Of course they were for profit and there is nothing wrong with profit. Many security agencies are run for profit. Every function of the government that can be duplicated by private firms should benefit from the competition.

Either I cannot communicate properly or there is lack of understanding by some. Private medicine flourishes in England, Canada and even Sweden. However there is a bedrock of security provided by these governments that allows every one of their citizens to enjoy guaranteed health care without having to go bankrupt first if real big bills hit.

If you want plastic surgery or an instant MRI, open your wallet, there is a private entity ready to serve you. If you face prolonged cancer theraoy and you are living in your home on just enough pension income, you will not be forced to sell your home to pay for sky high medical bills.

In California the insurance commissioner regulates and approves insurance premiums. If you cannot afford car insurance or do not qualify, the California government provides a safety net where all the insurance companies that want to do business in California, have to share the pooled risk. Nobody will be denied car insurance.

A good example of private business and a Gov regulator working together for the common good. It can be done and there is no reason why it cannot be done with health care.


    Bookmark   June 4, 2010 at 8:15PM
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"The profit motive needs to be removed from health care"

oh, c'mon nick!

I ass-u-me that you gaze with an empty stare toward your generic pharmaceutical manufacturers to develop new and *exciting* advancements?!



    Bookmark   June 5, 2010 at 8:08AM
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Who said anything about removing the profit motive from the Pharmaceutical industry. Everybody needs to make a profit. Do you think European pharmaceuticals are not making money? They are and they are developing new products without difficulty.

When Walgren buys medications for their medicare patients they are not allowed to buy at the lowest price but HAVE TO ACCEPT WHATEVER PRICE the pharmaceuticals choose to charge. When WalMart sells 90 days worth of meds for $10.00, I assure you they are not loosing. They may not make much, but it illustrates, when shopping for the best price worldwide, products become real cheap. Despite this everybody still makes money.

The Canadian pharmacy I ordered from a couple of days ago, is located in Vancouver. The medication is manufactured in Hungary and distributed by a wholesaler in London. My pills travel from Budapest to London to LA, all arranged by someone in Vancouver, Canada. Even at that low price, I assure you, everyone involved in this is making a profit. Perfect example of capitalism at work. Also shows how small the world has become.

When Walgren orders the same drug and is forced to pay the exorbitant price charged by the manufacturer without being allowed to shop for the best price, this is not capitalism. This is corruption, bordering on fraud, and is ripping of the public to allow the pharmaceuticals to make obscene profits. This is the type of profit I object to.

Most western nations to not allow the profit motive to enter the delivery of health care. This does not mean that the individual MDs, clinics or pharmacies do not make a profit. They all do and compete with each other. The difference is that all their bills get paid by a single payer who does not spend billions on advertising, CEO bonuses and who is not allowed to cherry pick and deny coverage to higher risk individuals.

Back to car insurance in California. Insurers do not wish to insure bad drivers. I don't blame them, however some one needs to insure them. Instead of dumping them on taxpayers, the state simply creates an assigned risk pool and forces insurers to accept a fair share of these higher risks. If they are not willing to do this, they are free to leave the state and do their business somewhere else. As far as I know they are not leaving but grudgingly insure these high risk individuals at a relative acceptable premium controlled by the state. The tax payer does not get hit, insurance companies make their profit, but with a gentle, or not so gentle nudge from Big Brother, everyone is covered. Premiums paid by everyone else absorb these costs but are held at the lowest possible level by the market force of competition. The same could be done with health care.

Private companies need to make a profit and should be free to do so however need governmental oversight to balance greed with conscience and responsibility which they seem to be lacking in pursuit of the best bottom line.


PS Its always the same individuals expressing the same opinions. With due respect, I know that none of us are going to change our opinions by any of this. I hope some new voices will be heard with new viewpoints and additional anecdotes relevant to this situation.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2010 at 10:26AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

So it was OK for your clinics to make a profit but who deemed it the right amount of profit or too much profit? Or did anyone even care if you were successful as long as you played by the rules? Break the rules and you do pay a price.

You did not mention private security companies, you designated police and fire - it is their job to protect you on the local level, not the federal level - private was not the point you were trying to make.

You do make your point with government provided health care but you ignore my points. You ignore my correction of the quality of health care in the US. You ignore the facts of the long waits in the two countries I linked. You ignore the long waits for many life saving procedures. Waiting years for hip replacement relief in government provided health care isn't a happy prospect to me, maybe to you. I prefer not to take pain medication to relieve something that can be fixed with surgery. Nor would I want my husband to be on a list for heart surgery if it is needed to save a life.

There are always "private" places the rich can go for medical problems but the common man can't afford these places and is at the mercy of their benevolent government. We already have a multi-tiered system here - the rich, the government employees, union workers, the ones like myself who will pay additional over and above Medicare and the rest. If you think the single payer system will elevate everyone to the same level, you are mistaken.

In Great Britain you are alloted X amount of dollars per year for your health expenses - go over that amount and treatment is ended - take a pill.

Health insurance has nothing to do with car insurance. Every state has an insurance commissioner but he doesn't regulate auto insurance. High risk drivers can get insurance but will pay a much higher premium and he can buy the car insurance from any state, unlike health insurance.

Your $10 medications have gone out of patent. WalMart started it and everyone else had to do the same thing because they were losing business. WalMart used it to bring in customers to buy other merchandise. Good for us.

Is the medication you have coming from Hungary under patent? Was the medication created by them? Are they producing medication patented by someone else and selling it without monies going to the patent company?

In Great Britain most doctors, hospitals are all government employees. Private doctors and hospitals will not be paid by the government but by people who have the money to afford better care.

I know I will never get you to change your view because you won't answer even the simplest questions.

Name ANY government run entity that is not billions in debt. Is it Medicare? Is it Social Security? Is it the US Post Office? Is it AmTrak? Is it Fannie? Freddie?

We are currently going $5,000,000,000 a day into debt. Do you think the government is capable of taking over the additional commitments without adding even more debt? The CBO and CMM have already released additional information (twice) of what the current plan will cost. Instead of "bending the cost curve down" and "reducing the deficit" it will add trillions more to the debt.

The government can't run their current health care obligations for only 100 million people why do you think they will be successful with 300+ million? Rainbows, sunshine and pixie dust are great but reality is the world I live in.


    Bookmark   June 5, 2010 at 3:33PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Can't add to the canadian drugs . I thought they were illegal?? I buy a drug that runs 7 bucks each 2x times a day. but has since been dropped to 1x a day and between
Medicare ad supplement it was 30 amonth but went up to 45.
Last month. I was kidding the pharmacist about getting
near the most expensive pills . Not even close there are "COcktail" pills that run 22 bucks each times 4 a day .
Anyway my point was that I was diagnosed with lung cancer on March 23 so far the cost has just crossed 42,000
dollars . Have yet to receive a treatment.!!
All but 3,000 has been picked up. Can't get a line on the treatments looks like somewhere around 8,000 x 3 for treatments That's without chemotherepy or follow up scans. Hoping to be able to keep this under 50,000 out of pocket but I may be dreaming?? lol gary

    Bookmark   June 6, 2010 at 4:13AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

My thoughts and prayers as you battle this disease. Great advances have been made so you will be able to enjoy your orchids for many more years.


    Bookmark   June 6, 2010 at 6:27AM
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You have a good attitude. it helped me. I was very, very fortunate.

squamous cell carcinoma survivor, 2002.


    Bookmark   June 6, 2010 at 6:28AM
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"The profit motive needs to be removed from health care"

"Who said anything about removing the profit motive from the Pharmaceutical industry. Everybody needs to make a profit."

Nick, are you separating pharmaceuticals from health care? What about medical devices?


    Bookmark   June 6, 2010 at 2:50PM
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Misnomers and misconceptions. Profit does not need to be removed from the 'Health Care Industry'. All the people and companies who contribute to illness prevention and illness treatment should and in countries that have "Socialized" medicine, do make a profit. This includes doctors, nurses, pharmacists dentists etc, etc, etc.

The insurance companies that write the checks for and deny or approve coverage do not contribute to one's well being. If anything they are supposed to spread the risk, which the automobile insurance companies in California are forced to do. In reality they don't even do this, as they deny coverage to anyone suspected of being a higher risk. They cherry pick and if possible insure only the healthiest people. Union and large companies with group plans get around that but the private Joe six pack citizen who wants to get health insurance and has the slightest blemish on his health record, is out in the cold. They should be removed from the food chain or their profits simply regulated by the market place with a public option which would keep them honest.

The motive of 'For Profit' Health Insurance companies has to be to maximize profit other wise their shareholders should kick the management out. If you buy shares in a company, you rightfully expect the maximum return on your investment. This is the part that other countries don't tolerate. On the other side of the coin, doctors don't make a profit unless they DO SOMETHING. The reverse is at work here. Government does a fairly good job of regulating this. At this time they do not regulate insurance companies at all who increase their profits by doing less. We all heard of bonuses being paid to employees who have a high denial of service record.

I'm only suggesting that a person shopping for health insurance should have options other than 'For Profit ' insurance companies. I'm convinced that if medicare could be purchased on a similar basis as the plans we can purchase, premiums would go down and services would go up.

Loud screams of protest will come forth as the government is incapable of doing anything right. That's why the insurance companies were petrified of the 'Public Option' and spend zillions of dollars to defeat it. If the gov is so incompetent, why were they so afraid of that?

The profits of pharmaceuticals would be kept in check if fair competition were allowed to regulate the price. Medicaid and the VA purchase their drugs at the lowest possible price. Medicare is locked into paying multiples of that. That's the profits I object to.


    Bookmark   June 6, 2010 at 6:00PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

I'm going to show your post to my drs!!! They have a VERY grim prognosis Unfortuneately cancer is not necessarily my most serious problem eliminating most treatments .
Oh well I have it on good advice that the world will end in 2012 Ithank you for the good wishes though!!
I was surprised that nobody commented on a 42,000 "diagnosis" Would think that excessive or at least WAY above average.?? My back surgery came in at under 2700 and that included followup, of course that was 25 years ago. Thanks again gary

    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 6:34AM
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gary, The majority of my expenses were several years ago. I continue to rack up follow-up expenses. I estimate that approximately $500,000 has been spent in total of which around $20,000 came outta my own pocket, most of that was due to idiotic Medicare rules.

Your $42,000? So what?!
That isn't what's important.

Best wishes!


    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 7:17AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

Your entire post was properly summed up by your first two words - misnomers and misconceptions.

1. Health care workers & institutions in socialized countries are paid salaries, not profits.

2. "The insurance companies that write the checks for and deny or approve coverage do not contribute to one's well being" Really? My insurance company certainly contributed to my well being.

3. "They (insurance companies) should be removed from the food chain or their profits simply regulated (the government already does this) by the market place with a public option which would keep them honest." Competing with the government is impossible for a private corporation. When the government runs out of money, they print more money.

4.Health insurance companies are completely regulated by the government. See my post stating what percentages of premiums MUST be paid to policy holders. Once again in case you missed it - the profit margin of insurance companies is 4-6%. In one sentence you say they need to be regulated and then you say "government does a fairly good job of regulating this" - which is it?

5. You are getting health insurance and car insurance mixed up. Let me point out, once again, you cannot cross state lines to buy health insurance - you can buy car insurance from any of the 50 states.

6. Options for health insurance companies permitted to do business in your state is regulated by YOUR state, not the federal government.

7. There are many NOT FOR PROFIT insurance companies - you need to check to see if any are permitted to write policies in YOUR state. Again, your state is responsible, not the federal government.

8. "I'm convinced that if medicare could be purchased on a similar basis as the plans we can purchase, premiums would go down and services would go up." This is another rainbows, sunshine and pixie dust wish - if everyone was on Medicare - once again Medicare is broke with 100 million people using it - you can't continue to force doctors and hospitals to take less money than the actual cost of the service unless you want every doctor and hospital salaried and controlled by the government.

9. "Loud screams of protest will come forth as the government is incapable of doing anything right." You won't give me an example of where the government is successful in running anything so I have to assume you can't.

10. "That's why the insurance companies were petrified of the 'Public Option' and spend zillions of dollars to defeat it. If the gov is so incompetent, why were they so afraid of that?" They are afraid of the Public Option because they can't compete with the government - did you notice they jumped on board when they figured out they would get millions of additional clients?

11. "Medicaid and the VA purchase their drugs at the lowest possible price. Medicare is locked into paying multiples of that." Why is that? All three are government controlled - do they just hate old people?

If you were still permitted to pursue your craft the government would tell you exactly how much you would receive for each procedure. At the current Medicare and Medicaid fees, you would get 72% of the Medicare rate for each Medicaid patient and the Medicare fee is much less than a privately insured or uninsured patient. On the upside, there would be zero Medicare recipients that would need your service. Would you accept or restrict the number of Medicaid patients or take a loss on each procedure?


    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 8:05AM
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That was a mouthful.

1) Physicians in Canada are in fierce competition with each other. They need to have nice offices and good bedside manners to attract patients as people are free to choose any place of service. They make good money, definitely not by salary but in the usual free enterprise way and drive their Mercedes just like here. The difference is that the patients don't need to worry about having coverage denied or not having coverage at all because of pre-existing conditions.

2) I doubt that your insurance company would call you to remind you that you are overdue for your 5 year colonoscope. Your physician probably has to employ one extra person just to deal with the insurance regulations which are all slanted to deny or limit service. The less is done, the greater the bottom line. The insurance company stands guard between you and the health care provider and does not contribute to your well being.

3) Granted, profits and other aspects are regulated by the government, but because of a very cozy relationship with the regulators, insurance companies are not forced to do unpleasant things such as insuring poor risk cases. They are permitted to set up virtual monopolies varying state by state. I'm not against them continuing but at least 2 important changes need to be made. Allow meaningful competition and force them to insure all comers. In essence they are shunting the high risk cases and forcing the tax payer to take care of them.

4) Allow across the state competition and set up high risk pools that will assure that everyone can get coverage. If there is meaningful competition, profits will be regulated by the market place.

5) You got that straight. Adopt some of the car insurance policies to health insurance and a big step forward will be taken.

6) Correct. I think it should be the federal gov but that steps on state's rights.

7) Kaiser is a good example, they are one of the largest entities in California.

8) Medicare is not broken. Almost all medical offices are eager to accept it and many insurance companies tie their reimbursement rates to Medicare rates. I can't speak for hospitals but all physicians I know would have no problem if all of their patients were covered by Medicare. They make a nice profit from Medicare, Medicaid is a different thing.

9) You will disagree but Medicare, the VA and Social Security are successful gov programs. Just ask anyone you know who benefits from these 3 if they would like to see them discontinued.

10) They jumped on board after, thanks to Sen Lieberman, the public option was scuttled. This really took the heart out of the reform bill but it's the best that could be done. Prior to this they were kicking and screaming against the bill.

11) Medicaid and the VA are free to seek the lowest cost for their drug purchases. Under the Bush Medicare Drug Benefit Plan, this is not the case for Medicare. In an obscene give away to the pharmaceutical companies, Medicare must accept the price set by them for medications and is not allowed to shop for a lower price.

There is no simple solution but with 40,000,000 uninsured and being solidly in 40th place amongst nations of the world as to the results of health care (see WHO stats), I think we could do better. If virtually all the western nations get better results, they must be doing something right. I'm not at all suggesting to adopt the British system but look at what they do with an open mind and adopt some of the positive.

Taiwan did exactly that 20 years ago. They had a mess on their hand and set out evaluating all the plans in the developed nations. They ended up adopting something close to the Canadian system, with some modification and from what I hear are satisfied with the results.


    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 11:38AM
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Garfly, I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Must be devastating but there is always hope. I have a colleage who is a long term pancreatic cancer survivor and a colleage's wife who is a 20 year survivor of widespread ovarian cancer. These 2 have horrible prognosis yet people survive them.

When you see me critizising our health care system as being 40th in the world, one has to look at this for what it is. If a Saudi Arabian prince gets a bad cold it's America he comes to for the best health care in the world. If you have good insurance, which you seem to have, or lots of money like the Shah of Iran, there is no better place in the world than right here. I'm sure they'll do everything possible for you and I wish you well.

The only reason we look so poor in relation to other nations is that they have a tendency to count every human being in their statistics which makes us look bad. Norwegians and Japanese tend to look after their poor, we are not quite on the same page. Our poor over all performance is not related to medical knowlegdge or skill, rather to social concience.

Good luck, I wish you well.


    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 3:15PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Thanks for the good wishes but I remember hearing somewhere that EVERYBODY dies ??lol Only ?? is when .
My gripe is not about the care it's the management .
For example Why do I need 7 drs?? Why have I had 8 scans ?? Why do some Drs refuse to use info from other med labs?? If the info is flawed why not go to the correct on in the first place. ?? Even better time it so the info is pertinent ?? Why 8 sets of blood tests ??
Why did I have to twist their arms to tell me the alternatives?? Why with 7 drs there seems to be nobody with an overall plan.?? Thought that's what Oncologists did?? if so why two?? After all, there aren't that many choices. I'm getting the distinct impression that this is A fabulous disease for added expenses and office calls
I could easily see where the present diagnosis could have been done for under 20 grand .
One interesting debate was my main dr recommened a through the throat biopsy in spite of two others saying that it was too dangerous . and they felt certain that the spot was cancer. So I opted for their advice and got a through the side biopsy. Not only did i get an absolute ID of the cancer they also implanted a radioactive "marker" at the same time. Had I gone with dr 1 would have had to have had two biopsies plus adding the marker.
This easily would have added 15 grand to the bill.
An interesting one was I needed some pills for a petscan
they recommended dr #2 with a 400 dollar office call got the pills from regular dr with 0 office call.??
I have done something clever(I thinK) lol. Had all my scans recorded on interactive CD"S and keeping copies at home. have already used them twice to avoid another scan.
Interesting note there . Their lab 5400 for a scan my regular lab 2500 to 4200 . Drs 2/3 refuse to use my scans yet without explanation..
There are actually only two treatment options in my case due to other complications . I find it fascinating that ALL agree that surgery (best option) is out of the question yet I still have a surgeon lol
One oncologist thought me a good choice for a new treatment but would require hospitilization probably in another state BUT many expenses would be picked up by several labs in return for "guinea pig "
I think I'm opting for the "Cyberknife" radiation therepy mainly because it has wonderful statistics does NOT require chemo and is limited to 3 sessions.
This decision is mainly based on my wife as this is being far more stressful on her. I would love to be a "Guinea pig" lol
I'm still a week away from my first treatment but they just now "Discovered " I have a titanium screw in my spine . Much debate on how it will affect the radiation.
Anyway thanks to everyone for the good wishes !!!

    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 5:57AM
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"For example Why do I need 7 drs??"

gary, are you griping?

I had a WHOLE bunch as well...
My "regular" MD, aka an internist who referred me to
An ENT who tentatively diagnosed me with a likely tumor when symptoms became alarming w/o benefit of a biopsy who referred me to

a "team" headed by a
Head & Neck surgeon with input from
Other surgeons,
A pathologist,
A radiologist,
An oncologist, later
An oncology radiologist,
A prosthodontist, who later referred me to
A dental surgeon,
A psychiatrist for the inevitable depression following major surgery, and....
A gastroenterologist

Those are the ones that I remember easily. I'm virtually certain that there were others.

Now, I only see the internist, the surgeon + his SLP, and the GI guy. Aren't I lucky? I think so!


    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 8:05AM
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There may be a silver lining to this tumultuous cloud. Lung cancer usually presents few options and very little tongue wagging. Your case may be unusual and therefore favorable. Good for you.


    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 9:53AM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Your far more patient than me .lol I fired 3 of the DRS yesterday would have fired another but he is head of the treatment center lol At least if most of this is a way to pad the bill, the money is going to those I like lol.
If the drs won't sit down and tell me what they intend to accomplish with the various treatments and the expected results they will work
I've found "WEB MD a tremendous source of info. Far better than the drs.especially about alternatives.
Not so sure about the "unsual" I had cataract surgery and had two in one eye.!! Dr had never seen that before. When the other eye developed the expected cataract there were 3. They took photos and documented the removal but no write up in JAMA .That I'm aware of . He did give me a 3 for one price break though lol.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2010 at 5:37AM
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Ordered on the 4th or there about, arrived today, the 16th. Looks similar to the ones I have been taken.

Talked about this with my internist who told me that a day does not go by when he does not suggest to some one to go that route. Resistance comes from several fronts.

1) People are afraid it is illegal.

2) Biggest problem is that some of his elderly patients are not internet savvy. He knows of someone who for a small fee will order for people who fall into that category. Reluctantly, that's where he draws the line, he does not pass that person's ID on but suggest that these people get their kids to order for them.

3) People are afraid the meds are not the same.


    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 12:48AM
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highjack(z6 KY)

"Looks similar" ROTFLMAO


    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 6:23AM
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ok, this thread is once again active!

"Not so sure about the "unsual" I had cataract surgery and had two in one eye.!! Dr had never seen that before. When the other eye developed the expected cataract there were 3. They took photos and documented the removal but no write up in JAMA .That I'm aware of . He did give me a 3 for one price break though lol.

Gary, If you were 'normal', you wouldn't need eye surgery. Whatever your surgeon finds under a microscopic view is a 'bonus' . Be grateful that you weren't "written-up" !

I had cataract surgeries done at age 54. After the second one was completed, the surgeon remarked that the odds of my dual responses were 1:10,000. As far as she was concerned, a once in a career event. She was excited. I didn't give a s*#t She didn't give me any discounts.

IF she had given me a discount, I might have been excited except that the surgeries were covered 100% by my insurance plans. No complaints.


    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 1:42PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

the most exciting part about the cataracts was I had no insurance at the time. They were horrified. Hardest part was finally getting a doctor to commit to a price lol Was refused by 4 drs. even though I said "name your price" lol
Operation took less than 3 hours shopping for a dr took almost 4 weeks .lol Price wss "Medicare plus 500 bucks" lol Not really the "price" as a nurse stopped the operation due to "suspected diabetes" So had to go to another dr which would NOT have happened without eye dr.
I lost track of the actual cost due to the unexpected expenses. Went from 20/200 to 20/30 Was VERY happy lol gary

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 5:55AM
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I'll bet that you were VERY happy! :)

I remember on the way home from my first surgery, I was in tears at the wonderful sight of COLORS again! I kept switching from my "good" eye to the "bad" one for comparison. No more dingy yellow/brown!

I could barely wait for the cataract surgery on the other eye (only 5 days). I had insurance "issues" at the time which made a hurry-up second procedure advantageous.


    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 7:17AM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Feel rather guilty since I'm hijacking this thread lol
had to add a couple of thoughts on the cataract surgery
Since it almost falls into "mirarulous " catagory.
I cringed when he described the procedure especially about being "awake" during the process. Had my eye open yet could not see nor felt any pain moved my head and arms as he asked . Would love to have watched the procedure !!!
I had color blindness for 3 days afterwards in the yellow family but could read within an hour!! Same with other eye . Only thing more impressive would be if he put his hand on my head and said "HEAL"lol
Okay will shut up now but I know nothing about "Canadian Druigs" lol gary

    Bookmark   June 21, 2010 at 5:57AM
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This is a current article on Yahoo News. Just came from my internist who not only tells his patients to check out Canadian drugs but one of his girls gives computer illiterate elderly patients the phone number of a geek of sorts who orders the drugs for them, for a fee of course.

The birth of a new industry!


    Bookmark   October 13, 2010 at 12:22PM
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