General Schablikine vs. Mons. Tillier in SoCal

ArbutusOmnedo 10/24February 20, 2014

As is often the case, design plans have changed in the process of redoing my parent's yards. We felt it would be better to grow Boule de Neige with a wall a few feet behind it in the back rather than in the space allotted in the front as a free standing shrub. Also the color scheme is a bit white heavy in the front as it is.

This opens up a rather large (just under 9'x9'), sunny spot in the front. The plants beside this space are a young Reine des Violettes growing up a fence in light shade and a white Correa Pulchella. They all have their mature space accounted for, so I'm wondering which of these reddish Teas is a better performer in Southern California or other mild, frostless climates? I'd particularly love to hear from those who have grown either or both in Coastal SoCal. There should be room for Monster Tillier as it is referred to by some, but if General Schablikine is slightly less monstrous that wouldn't be a bad thing. Better habit, scent, rust and mildew resistance, irregularity of balling, coloring in mild temperatures, and foliage between the two?

I believe Jeri once mentioned GS in a past question of mine, so I'll check back to that, but I'd love to hear your current thoughts on them. After an HMF comparison, I personally like the bloom of MT a bit more, but prefer the photos of GS's habit.


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ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

Jay, I can't give you any meaningful advice about these choices since your climate is very different from mine. However, I grew Monsieur Tillier for a short time until I realized its flowers fried in just a few hours in the sun. Having thus seen its color I do wonder whether the warmer tones would clash with the cool purple of Reine des Violettes. Just something for you to consider since I sense that for you, as for me, a harmonious color scheme is important.


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 11:43AM
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In short, 'Monsieur Tillier' has blossoms which crisp as soon as they're hit by the rays of our So. Cal. sun.

The variety is healthy and vigorous and bloomy and handsome; but the melancholy feeling brought about by seeing all those spoiled blossoms made it a necessity to remove my specimen.

I have an "unknown" Tea, bought long long ago from Heritage Rose Gardens, which I'm increasingly certain is 'General Schablikine'. It's wonderful in every way. "Go for GS" is my very strong recommendation.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 11:51AM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I have what I thought was MT, but is it GS? It's been very clean here in Sunset 23. Evergreen, flowers year round.

Anyway, whatever that one is, I recommend it.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 2:25PM
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Jay, are you right on the coast where you get a lot of fog & cool humidity? If so, just talk to Jeri.

If you are in a warmer more sunny place but still near the coast, that might be similar to where my garden is - it is in the No. SF Bay area. The ocean is miles away on the other side of a mountain, but the Bay is just about 5-6 blocks away.

If you think our climates are similar, I would recommend Le Vesuve. Very happy here - gets about 8ft tall, 6 ft wide, and maybe 6 ft deep. Blooms 11 months of the year. I don't spray it, don't deadhead it - I just throw some granular fertilizer on it once a year, mulch it, and only prune the bits that are intruding on the driveway or paths.


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 3:02PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Thanks for the feedback. Am I to understand -after looking at old posts- that the rose in commerce as Monsieur Tillier in the US is actually Archduke Joseph? In any event, it seems like GS is a bit less finicky.

I was just going to ask about La Vesuve, Jackie. There is space for it or most of the larger teas/chinas. How would you describe the color for you? I suppose the spot probably would look better with salmon pink or lighter pink as opposed to light brick red. The more I look, the more I like GS though.

We've never really had issue of flowers frying. We may get a good amount sun, but our temperatures are never above the low 80s even in the Summer typically, and the rest of the year (like today-72) it's going to be in the mid 60s or low 70s. Not a lot of fog, but enough influence from the marine layer to have decent humidity. Very mildew and rust friendly conditions.

The teas we have going in the back at the moment are Rosette Delizy, Gilbert Nabonnand, Rubens, and Adam. Something a bit different from these would be a nice direction to follow, but whatever is trouble free and fitting will be the pick. My mom isn't a fan of the creamy yellow teas, otherwise Etoile de Lyon would be a perfect pick for this spot next to Reine des Violettes. Lady Hillingdon would be a great choice, but I can't find it available anywhere. Does anyone know if Burling tends to have it available?

Given that my mom really likes the "reddish" toned or orange-pink teas, General Schablikine is probably the front runner, but I'd like to hear about Le Vesuve, Lady Hilligdon, and any other moderate to large Teas/Chinas you're enamored with that would look lovely between slightly off, creamy white and RdV.


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 4:45PM
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I just received a band of Lady Hillingdon from Burling.

I got Mons. Tillier from ARE last year. I don't have much to report yet but I can tell you that all three teas I have - Mons. Tillier, Rosette Delizy and Westside Road Cream Tea are all disease free here so far near the Bay. It is probably cooler over here than at Jackie's, give us a few days in the 80s and it is a heat wave!

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:13PM
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ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

I have La Vesuve (two actually) and it's a great rose but is armed with small, vicious thorns that can make pruning, should it need that, a chore. It's a cool pink, nothing reddish about it. Mme. Antoine Mari is a great tea, and the color would look very well there, as would Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux. Angel Camp Pink would be another very good choice, as would Georgetown Tea.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 2:39PM
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For good pictures of Le Vesuve (including lots of shots of entire huge bushes) go to Help Me Find/Roses, go to Search, type in Le Vesuve, and then hit Pictures.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 2:58PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I purchased a membership at HMF a few months ago and I certainly have used it regularly. I love being able to look at the parentage trees and generations of descendants of roses.

Le Vesuve is lovely indeed. The ARE site says it's able to be maintained at a "smaller size." What would a "smaller size" be? Is it simply more receptive to light pruning than most Teas/Chinas?

I also emailed Burling about Lady Hillingdon's availability. As well as the Polyantha Jean Mermoz which I would love to try in a pot.

We had simply forgotten about Lady Hillingdon because it hasn't shown up available anywhere where shipping is reasonable to California that I was aware of, but shipping would be very reasonable in state from Burling.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 6:35PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Does Burling have the General? You got me wanting one. I got my Lady Hillingdon from Burling

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 11:53PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I don't think I see General Schablikine amongst Burling's plant list on HMF, but ARE does have it in stock.

Rose Petals has it in Florida as well, but shipping for one plant is more than 40 dollars to California. Souvenir de Pierre Notting would've taken Rubens' place amongst the first Tea plantings here last fall if it had been available anywhere closer than RP.


This post was edited by ArbutusOmnedo on Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 3:06

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 2:14AM
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