thornless rose for Florida garden?

marcia_m(5 and 9)February 2, 2012

I'm looking for a thornless rose to put along a small pathway. Right now there are brown-from-frost firebush, butterfly weed, and cannas in that spot. One or two days with a low of 29 did them in, so I'm looking for a plant that is more pleasant to look at in the winter (i.e., green). I was thinking of Old Blush or Archduke Charles and would like to hear your opinions on them, especially you gardeners in Florida. I am open to other rose suggestions.

My druthers include:

-- thornless

-- no spray but still looks great and keeps its leaves

-- about 4-6 feet tall and not too lanky--looking for a nicely full bush but not too "sprawly"

-- flowers well especially in the fall through spring when we're in residence

-- I prefer double flowers; I'm not a fan of singles

-- fragrance would be nice

I know that's alot to ask from a rose! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Marcia

Here is the spot.

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Ccstpete

Ducher has everything you are asking for. It is a white rose though and some people don't like white. Old Blush has some thorns. Archduke Charles would do a good job, as would Louis Phillipe. Ducher makes the denser, better looking plant between these.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 6:22PM
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malcolm_manners

'Old Blush' and 'Archduke Charles' are good roses, but they are surely not thornless! Some that do come to mind are 'Reine des Violettes' and 'Paul Neyron', both HPs so not disease-free, but generally quite thornless. Both get somewhat tall, but you could prune them into the size range you want (PN repeats far better with frequent, hard pruning anyway). "Basye's Blueberry" is also nearly thornless, but I've not grown it in a garden, so really can't comment on its performance here. 'Mrs. Dudley Cross' is nearly thornless, but will grow bigger than you're wanting, and as a Tea, will resent hard pruning other than in the spring.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 6:25PM
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amberroses(10a)

Clotilde Soupert cl is close to what you asked for except for the shape.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 8:01PM
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sherryocala

I'm pretty sure Souv de la Malmaison is not thornless, but it would fit in that spot for a long time even without trimming. Well, whad'ya know!! HMF says she's nearly thornless! She's fragrant (up close) and way more than double, loves the heat, doesn't mind the humidity. She grows short and wide but not real wide. In cooler temps she's baby pink. In the heat she's almost white but not quite. She's gorgeous and healthy. I have 3 plus Mystic Beauty (almost a clone) and Souv de St Anne's, a sport. They're wonderful in Florida, very floriferous.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.2435.2

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 10:30PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

This isn't going to be as easy a decision as I had thought it would! I guess the rose doesn't have to be completely thornless but I just added some fertilizer around Mrs. B.R. Cant and don't want to deal with a rose like that near a pathway. No matter how careful I was, I got hooked several times.

Now, looking at my photos, that could be a good place for a small arch/arbor. Clotilde Soupert climbing might be a good one for that, Amberroses.

Ccstpete, are white roses bothered by thrips in SW Florida? That would be my one concern about Ducher.

I looked at your photos taken at the Florida Southern College Rose garden again, Malcolm, and looking at the bush shots, some roses get huge. I'll look at the photos again before making a rose decision. I really want a rose that doesn't need to be sprayed for disease and prefer one that is somewhat tolerant of nematodes since it is so hard to find roses on Fortuniana root stock.

Sherry, I do want SDLM, but I have a spot nearer our house that I'm thinking of for her.

My rose collection is small so far and I know it's easy to become obsessed (I did that back in my PA garden several years ago!). I do love roses and so far I have Mrs. B.R. Cant, Duchesse de Brabant, Louis Phillipe, Carnation, and 2 Crepuscule plants. I have a small yard and don't have room for too many roses so I don't want to plant any 'mistakes,' if possible.

Thank you for all your helpful suggestions.
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 10:00AM
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lou_texas(8a N Central TX)

Marcia, Mrs. Dudley Cross would be lovely in that spot. Lou

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 12:02PM
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bellegallica_zone9(9)

Sherry's right. I had SdlM, and it was NOT thornless. Sometimes I wonder if the people who write those descriptions have only ever grown something like Autumn Damask, then they see a China or Tea and think,thornless! Not.

I like the way Antique Rose Emporium describes them: nearly thorn free. I'll link that section of their catalog below.

Marie Pavie could fill that spot. Practically zero thorns on the canes, but does have those behind the leaf little prickles, which are not a big deal, though. Fragrant, too.

I haven't grown Austin's Heritage, but that one is usually listed as thornless.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nearly thorn free roses @ ARE

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 7:03PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Reine des Violettes is thornless but she gets huge here in my Michigan garden (and she's green to the tips most winters) so I'd guess she'd be ENORMOUS in your Florida garden. She doesn't like much pruning either so she won't bloom when I have to whack her back. As for diseases and nematodes in your neck of the woods I couldn't say but she does black spot and powdery mildew for me. She is gorgeous in bloom and smells divine though!

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 7:27PM
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sherryocala

Just for the record Fortuniana is not thornless or even nearly thornless. It has small, very hooked prickles that are very sharp. And Reve d'Or is armed, too. Both grow in my garden. Interesting how these roses must vary, I guess.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 9:06PM
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sherryocala

Hey, I just read Rita Sammons is nearly thornless and fragrant. I have her and never noticed. She's still young.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   February 3, 2012 at 9:46PM
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saldut

How abt. SPICE ? She has no thorns, stays neat from the ground up, also stays abt. 3 X 3... and NO Black-Spot period.... she is a China and Earth-Kind, which means no problems if in poor conditions... plus very pretty white flowers w/good repeat.... I have her own-root, next to my front walk-way, and folks always admire her and comment abt. her..... sally

    Bookmark   February 4, 2012 at 1:07PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

Thank you for so many choices :) I guess I have my homework cut out for me.
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 4, 2012 at 3:50PM
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lou_texas(8a N Central TX)

I'd have to second SPICE. She is everything Sally said. Either she or Ducher would be perfect - if Mrs Dudley is too large for you. If I wanted more color, I'd go for Archduke Charles since he is upright. Lou

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 12:23PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

After viewing rose photos, I am leaning towards Mrs. Dudley Cross. There are just too many beautiful roses--it makes my head swim!

I have already dug out and re-planted the firebush that died to the ground but is putting out leaves at ground level.

How does Lady Hillingdon do in hot, humid Florida? Loved the photos I saw of her. Not for this spot, but perhaps I can find another sunny spot :)
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 1:25PM
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saldut

My Lady Hillingdon has sparse thin foliage but the blooms are pretty, when she decides to bloom... I like SPICE, she stays such a nice full shape all the way to the ground, I have DUCHER on the other side of the walk-way and it is twice the size of SPICE and doesn't bloom as much, and has thorns... also the blooms are smaller and blow faster and tend to ball at times...DUCHER is also a Earthkind China and has no BS ever and stays full to the ground,, no knobbly knees ! so it depends on how big a bush you want, but for me, I like SPICE the most.....sally

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 4:09PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

Thank you for all the suggestions. This afternoon I ordered from Chamblees--Mrs. Dudley Cross, SDLM, and Pat Austin (I know she will probably be a dud here, but I HAD to try it--love those pale orange nodding blooms, in photos anyway). I'll keep Spice in mind for another year and another space.

Happy Valentine's Day to me :)
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 5:48PM
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floridarosez9

Marcia, Pat Austin bloomed her silly head off here. The bush wasn't the best by far and had some blackspot, but frankly she bloomed so much and in such quantity I didn't care. I lost her to a fungal disease, but I plan to get her again.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 7:22PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

That's good to hear, Floridarosez. Looking forward to see what she'll do in my yard.
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 7, 2012 at 9:28AM
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sherryocala

Marcia, I was out the other day trimming up SDLM a bit, and suddenly noticed that I wasn't seeing or feeling any thorns. So I looked for them. All I saw was smooth canes, but then there were a lot of leaves so I may have missed a couple.

As to Pat Austin, I have her in a pot - just a young thing. Even though I don't really care for orange, she knocked my socks off at our rose show last fall. So gorgeous. I can't wait for her to start blooming again.

Good choices from Chamblees. I keep wanting to place an order with them. Apparently, my brain doesn't know what NO ROOM means.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   February 8, 2012 at 10:44PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

Thanks for the info, Sherry. I'll keep that in mind. My DH just finished a patio with patio blocks and I had planned to site SDLM along one edge of the patio where we (I) could enjoy her blooms and fragrance better. Fewer thorns will certainly be a plus.

I'm hoping the plants I receive from Chamblees are a decent size. Sometimes they are smaller and need a bit of babying. I have ordered from them in the past, both here and in PA, and have almost always been happy. When I wasn't, they made it right. Unfortunately, ordering roses means paying big $$ for shipping :(

I'll be digging out hardpan sand sometime soon to ready for the roses--I know from your blog that you've had a similar experience :)
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 9, 2012 at 9:11AM
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buffington22(Z8 Louisiana)

I don't have Spice but would love to get her based on many recs. MDC here was sp'd b/c although thornless, poor blooms and always damaged-either by thrips or balling or something. Rarely, did I have a really pretty bloom from either of 2 plants. Safrano is a great rose for me. In spring and fall, the blooms are so lovely! They resemble the perfect rosebuds made of icing on a wedding cake. They take my breath away and smell rosy too! It is a pretty bush as well with nice red new foliage.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 12:26PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

Thanks for sharing your experience, Buffington22. I'll see how MDC does here. She's supposed to ship tomorrow so I need to buy some soil amendments in the next few days--I'm sure she wouldn't like the sand that passes for soil in my yard!
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 1:32PM
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patricianat

Dr. Manners has so much more information about rose growing in Florida than I would ever feign but I live in a humid climate and Paul Neyron is just not a winner and neither are the bourbons, i.e., Souvenir de la Malmaison.

I have had good luck with Crepuscule and Madame Alexander Carriere. Excuse me if my spelling is off, but I think these roses might be more to your liking. You will need to keep their growth in check and treat them like bushes, not climbers.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 1:50PM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

That's the thing about growing roses--what does well in one part of the country won't necessarily do the same in another. So much trial and error, isn't there, Patricia?

I planted Crepuscule last spring so she's still young and growing. The flowers she did have were very small and bleached out in the sun so I'm not sure how much I'll like her in my yard.
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 2:10PM
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patricianat

Marcia, Crepuscule takes about 3-4 years to reach its full glory. Be patient and you will be rewarded.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2012 at 1:49AM
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floridarosez9

Marcia, my Crepuscule has been in the ground about eight years and is still not huge. The blooms in the spring and fall remind of tangerine sherbet. They are not very full blooms, but I love this rose.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2012 at 10:55AM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

Thanks for your info, Floridarosez. I love apricot/peachy colored roses so I hope this one will do well for me, too. :)
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 14, 2012 at 5:19PM
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teka2rjleffel(z10FL)

Marcia, Weeping China Doll is thornless and gorgeous. It would make a wonderful statement there. It isn't fussy, no spray. Check out the second page of photos of it on help me find. There is a photo there that makes me drool. I have one and have recently ordered 2 more (like I have room LOL)

    Bookmark   February 17, 2012 at 11:15AM
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marcia_m(5 and 9)

That China Doll rose bush on HMF is beautiful! I'll keep it in mind if MDC doesn't work out. I expected my Chamblees' order to be here yesterday or today--it was to ship on Monday--but nada! I hope it wasn't lost in transit and that UPS will deliver it on Monday (do they observe President's day holiday?).
Marcia

    Bookmark   February 17, 2012 at 8:13PM
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