Jujube pollination and varieties

lindsgardenDecember 19, 2011

All,

I do not know much about jujubes except that people seem to rave about "Sugarcane" and "Honey Jar", will these two varieties pollinate each other?

Also, please recommend exceptional varieties for Maryland :)

Thanks!

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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

My favorites are those two and Shangxi Li which is also very large. Jujubes are all supposedly self-pollinating. I have had fruit set problems but I think I was letting them get too dense, I planted them a foot apart which was too close.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 19, 2011 at 11:07PM
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wizzard419

I'm not fully versed in ones that survive that far north but on the tropical fruit forum there are several fans there.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 2:03AM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Wizzard, jujubes are hardy in zone 5, they are not a tropical plant. They are called Chinese dates but are not related to the date palm.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 9:02AM
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wizzard419

Ah, is there some other fruit called that? They have several people who talk about them on the other board.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 12:44PM
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iammarcus(6)

I am in zone 6 and while my jujubes have not fruited yet they are doing OK, except for one low branch that is gnawed. In theory animals are not supposed to bother them but nobody told the rabbits in my neighborhood.
I have Li, Lang and Sugarcane; Sherwood and Honey Jar are on order for spring delivery.
Dan

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 5:03PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

Scott, 1' seems very tight- what spacing have you found to be effective?

I've currently got 8.5' between my recently planted So jujube and where I've prepared a hole for the last in a short row of Peaches (4' spacing). If you've found 4' or less spacing to work, I can put another tree in between (either jujube or peach)...

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 8:00PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

Bob, it depends on how much summer pruning you want to do and how much yield you want, but my new plantings I put 3-4' apart. This winter I thinned out about 30 trees which were at 1-2' spacings that were too close. At 3-4' you still need to be doing summer pruning once or twice per summer, as well as thinning out scaffolds at some point in the year. It takes a few years to get the hang of it to have the proper pruning balance of all parts (scaffolds, shoots, etc). at 8' you will get a lot more yield and the pruning is not hard at all.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 8:28PM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

I'm planting Sherwood, Shanxi Li, Sugar Cane, Honey Jar, and GA 866 this winter. I'll probably space them at least 8ft apart.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 8:42PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

Thanks Scott and Fruitnut- the current spacing (8.5' feet) sounds like the way to go. The So is the only variety that I've planted, so I'll get to see how it does without pollination.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 9:28PM
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bonsaist(Z6/ Bethlehem, Pa)

I have several varieties in my garden... Sugarcane and honeyjar are good, but not enough meat on them, Sihong is also good and a little different in flavor. My favorite is Li, I'm still waiting on several varieties to fruit next year...

Bass

Here is a link that might be useful: Jujubes in my garden.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2011 at 3:03PM
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alcous

It may be a bit confusing that "Li" is actually "pear" in chinese, as popular asian pear has rounded shape, while "Lang", western people say it's pear shaped, but chinese think it's tea-pot shaped. So, remember any "Li" jujube is round shaped. However, the "Li jujube" was named too general to identify its china origin unless cultivated place was captured then.

Shanxi Li (name well captured) get popular by its jumbo size and flavor and can be eaten fresh, In Shanxi China, their "tea pot" jujube is more famus, but it may not be the same variety as "Lang" although it looks similiar, just like Li and Shangxi Li are different.

By looking at all the available varieties here imported from china you cannot match those as most names got changed except for honey jar(a meaning rather than pronounce translation from chinese), shanxi Li(a province of china with its unique Li variety) and Sihong(a county of Jiangsu, China where the variety cultivated for thousand years), for example, "sugarcane" or "ant admire" was claimed as china import, but exact chinese variety name is a mystery, same as those specimen "researched and selected" in the station, were then renamed either researcher's or importer's name. This is somehow strange, unlike other fruit tree varieties, most jujube varieties given a new name after imported.

Language could be the barrier, only word simple as "li" was being recorded. It can be seen that various chinese dialect (tsao, zhao, zao, etc) resameble "jujube" were being confused as part of variety names, also, chinese briefly divide jujube into two categories, large(li, lang, etc. "da" means large) and small(honey jar, sugarcane, etc), besides, any ripen after september are winter/late species ("dong" means winter). So, neither "da" nor "dong" a variety name, but you may see them in some literature listed as variety.

99% chinese jujube varieties named one or combination of appearance description, cultivated place, taste or chew like, importer may ask the vender/grower such that the names can be kept, such that future import varieties not duplicated with different names.

Here is a link that might be useful: funny and inconsistently named varieties list down the bottom

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 2:57AM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Anyone has good experience with GA866? Mine is in the ground for over 5 years and not bearing.

Grafted Honey Jar bear fruit right away. Grafted Sugar cane's branch seems much slender and has not produce any fruit.

    Bookmark   July 25, 2012 at 10:56PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

I have had the same experience, no fruit yet and I grafted it in 2009. Honey Jar is my all-around favorite, great taste and quick to fruit. I don't mind the small size.

This year I thinned out my jujubes a lot, they are getting good light. But they still did not set well. I'm a bit mystified on what makes jujubes want to set fruit.

Scott

    Bookmark   July 26, 2012 at 9:32AM
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fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX

My spring planted Honey Jar and Sugar Cane are still flowering and setting fruit. I am thinning most off.

I ate the first Honey Jar yesterday. Very sweet but that's all it's got going for it. The fruit was smaller than a sweet cherry. Flavor non existent. Some fruit are bigger than a sweet cherry but not by much.

Sugar cane is bigger, like a really small chicken egg. They are turning color too but I haven't eaten one yet.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2012 at 9:51AM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

The problem of GA866 is it does not have many flowers. Sugar Cane has a lot of smaller flower but seems too weak to bear any fruits.

My neighbor's Li fruit is like small plum and it's very sweet and crunching. I graft three branches this year and all produce good shoot. Hopefully it will prduce fruits next year.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2012 at 11:09AM
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harbin_gw

I received scionwood of Honey Jar from Cliff this year grafted in April and it sets fruits in its first year already.
Fruits although still green are nowhere near small... definitely larger than sweet cherry. Also have Sugar Cane fruiting but the fruitlets are elongated not round. GA866 is really a slow starter but it seems that some fruits will be there for comparison. Ants and wasps do the job of pollination. I have also read somewhere that dill is a good atractant for the insects that do pollinate jujube. They both flower at the same time.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2012 at 12:21PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

My Honey Jar is on the smaller side of sweet cherry and same as my contorted So. Maybe they were in the first year from grafted branch.

Right now half of my small tree are Honey Jar and another half are Contorted So. The tree bear a lot of fruits and are still small and green.

6 feet away is bigger GA866 and not a single fruit. One of the grafted branch is Sugar Cane and no visible fruits. One branch is contorted So and bear some fruits. Three newly grafted Li has some flowers but no fruits yet.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2012 at 9:28PM
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john222-gg(Mississippi 8a/8b)

I have A li & lang about 30' apart both make plenty of fruit.I don't find the fruit really sweet more like an apple have candied some that tasted like dates.You can't let them dry on the tree in MS. the humidity is to high.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2012 at 7:31PM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

I have 2 ga866's, one in its 6th leaf, from edible landscaping, and one in its 3rd leaf, from roger Meyer. Neither has fruited for me yet, the only jujube's I have with 0 production so far.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 12:02PM
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c5tiger

Here is a pdf of Sam Powers book on the fruit trees that he had. Very informative with a nice section on jujube. He also had poor production on ga866.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click for pdf

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 2:51PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Have you harvest your Jujube?

Nice season for me. I started to pick Honey Jar two weeks ago. My daughter can�t wait for the jujube to completely change the color. Each day I take a handful of Honey Jar. Very sweet and crunch.

My So is heavy producer. It taste very good but not as sweet as Honey Jar. You need to wait it completely change color to be good. It is a little drier than Honey Jar. I would think it would be a good candidate for using as dried Jujube.

I finally got my first harvest of Sugarcane. It bears plenty on the grafted branches. The taste is different from Honey Jar and needs to completely change color to be good. Maybe next year will be better.

All three grafted Li survived. One branch bear about 10 fruits. Some are as big as the size of golf ball. Some are as small as Honey Jar. Li is not ready yet.

GA866 only bear a few fruits and all fall off before they reached the size of a penny. Next year I will try to replace most of GA866 branches with something else. I hope to get/trade scion wood of Shanxi Li from fellow members.

Has anyone visited Ty Ty Nursery site http://www.tytyga.com/Georgia-866-Jujube-p/georgia-866-jujube-tree.htm that showed huge GA866 Jujube. I can�t believe that it looks bigger than Li.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 12:20PM
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AJBB(9b)

Jianhuayegreentree, which state do you live in?

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 1:59PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Pennsylvania, suburban of north of Philadelphia.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 3:05PM
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AJBB(9b)

I think GA466 is better grown in the south. Sugarcane does very well here in Phoenix, probably because of the hot summers. We can harvest them here partially green without a change in sugar content.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 3:55PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

You are probabally right. My Sugarcane starts to change color now. It's the first year bearing fruit. So I am not going to complain.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 9:03PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Searched Ty Ty Nursery on this forum and found out it is not a reputable nursery. Someone also complain its video a fraud. So, I am not sure the GA866 video really tells the true GA866.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 9:57PM
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Susan423

I'm having similar experience with GA866. Mine was planted spring 2009 and is over 8 ft tall, very thick caliper, and no fruit. I also have a Li (planted same time, is about same size) and no fruit.

Interestingly I planted a Sugar Cane (less than 3ft tall skinny thing) in spring 2011, and just this year it bore fruit even though the tree is still very small.

I will probably remove the GA866 - looks like a waste of time.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2012 at 10:00PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Susan,

You don't have to remove GA866. You can just graft other variety of Jujube on it. Jujube is relatively easy to graft.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 9:26PM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

Once again, almost no flowers at all on my GA866. My other jujube's are covered with flowers

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 5:48PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Me too, almost no flowers on GA866. Good thing I grafted 14 branches this year and 12 are growing well.

All the newly grafted branches are having flower.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2013 at 3:11PM
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denalifan

Seems like I'm not alone whose Jujubees produce no fruit. My Li and Lang have been in the ground for almost 3 years. I bought them bare root from Willis Orchards, They came as 6' tall broomsticks. They are now 15'-18' tall and look very healthy. Unlike other folks's trees that produced no flowers and no fruits, mine put out thousands of small yellowish flowers, but set no fuit at all, not a single one! At first I was thinking they sold me two Langs (everyone seems to think Lang is self-sterile and requires Li or other jujubee tree as a polinator while Li is self-fertile). But now, based on the earlier posts, seems that I might have proximity issue - they are too close (though Dave Willson actually advocates high density planting in small backyards like mine - check the link below pls.
So at this point I'm very disappointed and thinking of cutting them down and turning them into root stock so I can graft 5-6 other varieties onto them. Let me know please if any one had similar experience to mine.

Here is a link that might be useful: High Density Landscape

    Bookmark   August 22, 2013 at 9:59PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Scott,

Hope you are watching this thread. Your Shanxi Li scion woods are growing well on my trees. But they did not produce any fruits this year. In fact, my two trees did not produce much fruits this year. In the Spring, it seem grow well with a lot of baby jujube but most fall off during the summer.

Anyway, many had voiced that their Jujube did not produce many fruits. So I did a research on this and this is what I found:

I learned that Chinese are cutting the bark of Jujube trunk to prevent fruit drop and encourage fruiting based on a thousand year technique. See the link for demonstration http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTMyNDEwMjY4.html. I plan to use this technique next year to see how this goes.

This similar technique also can be applied to oriental persimmon. My Makawa Jiro and persimmon had not bear any fruits for the last three years because of fruits drop. This year I used this technique and I got about 43 persimmons. Many of the fruits each weigh about half pound. My 3year old Gwang Yang also bear about 11 persimmons about the same size.

Any questions, please let me know.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 12:13PM
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Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD)

I got very few fruits this year as well. I have heard about those bark scoring tricks but have always been scared that I would kill the tree so I never tried them. Maybe I will try it on a few jujubes next year, I don't have much to lose since they are never producing much. For me I planted the trees too closely and that may also be a factor.

Scott

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:16PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

For young Jujube tree, you don't cut much. I will only curve 2-5mm wide ring. The tree in the video is at least over 10 year old.

Attached is my 4 year old persimmon. I found you have to wait leaf fall and fully colored to be tasteful in PA.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2013 at 10:26PM
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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

jianhuayegreentree,

Oh my gosh, the guy in the video means business! I can hardly believe he isn't trying to kill the tree. It is obvious that the tree has had this done before but how often is this done? What time of year do you do this scoring?

I have heard of bark reversal but this is "leave nothing behind".

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 11:06AM
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bhawkins(8A Dallas)

I think I'll try that technique on a couple branches. I'm not brave enough to risk a whole tree.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 5:59PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Here some details:

Timing: when tree is in 60% blooming and maybe a few flower begin to bear baby jujube. No rain expected in a few days.

Initial carving location: 30cm from the ground, next year 3-5cm above. This is only done once a year.

Wound heal time: Not too soon, it's best kept the wound heal in about 30 days. So if the tree is strong and big , cut the ring wider width, otherwise narrow. The wound is general about 5mm wider.

Wound care: cover the wound with plastic film or parafilm so no insect or ant gets there.

This post was edited by jianhuayegreentree on Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 21:02

    Bookmark   November 13, 2013 at 8:58PM
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SasW(8a/b)

In another video I saw them use a paint brush to spread some liquid over the wounded area of the bark.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3NTI1Mjg=.html?from=y1.2-1-87.3.3-1.1-1-1-

This post was edited by SasW on Sun, Apr 6, 14 at 12:06

    Bookmark   April 6, 2014 at 11:30AM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

I had used the technique and cut the bark on my two trees three week ago. My tree looks healthy and the tree are loaded with the fruits. Only a few fruit drop.

I will post some photos later. I just want to confirm this will not kill your tree (I cut the ring 2-3 mm wide). It's still not too late to cut the bark. This will prevent fruit drop.

The cut are starting to heal. I read that if the cut heal too early you will lost some fruits. Heal too late will affect fruit size.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 4:21PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Picture of ring cut. First one.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:23PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Second one.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:24PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Good harvest this year.

Sugar cane.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:26PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Honey Jar (grafted on the GA866 branch).

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:33PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Li (grafted on the branch of GA866)

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:37PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Two trees in distance. The left small tree is grafted near the base with two main branches. One is So and another is Honey Jar. I then added Li and Shaxi Li on some of the branches. The right big tree is GA866. All grafted at branches with Sugar Cane and Li and So. and later added some Honey Jar. So is very productive, so does Sugar cane and Honey Jar. Li and Shanxi Li are not productive and most are deformed and fall off.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 12:49PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

No single fruit from GA866 branches. Next year, I am going to remove those branches or graft with other varieties.

Note to wound care. I found it's better to leave them uncovered. Frequently checking the wound for insect damage.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2014 at 1:10PM
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denalifan

I've read that GA866 bear fruit every other year.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2014 at 4:05PM
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Tony(Zone 5. Omaha, Nebraska)

Jian.

How old are your two jujube trees. They look great.

Tony

    Bookmark   September 11, 2014 at 9:25PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

My So jujube is fruiting for the first time this year. The first one was ripe enough to try (about half brown) yesterday and I was pleased with it.

Of course, I may not have been pleased if my expectations hadn't been suitably lowered by the jujubes my wife brings back from Chinatown. She likes them a lot, having grown up with them, but they seem pretty bland and spongy to me.

Though much smaller than the ones from Chinatown, the So I had yesterday was sweeter tasting and crunchier, with a bit more juice (it's hard to have less). I'm not sure if I'll be able to squeeze enough out of one to measure brix, but I'll give it a try.

I planted the tree in fall 2011, so this is its 3rd growing season. The tree is a few inches under 6 feet tall and about 4' wide- a good size, as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen any suckering yet, so maybe it is getting enough water where it is, without having to go looking.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2014 at 12:27PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

The small one I original ordered from HiddenSpringNursery in Fall 2007. It was Li . But during the Spring 2008, Rabbit eat most of the part. Not experienced, I have no idea the growth from the trunk are under graft and two years later I got small tasteless fruits. I grafted So and Honey Jar in 2011.

The big GA 866 was bought from Roger Meyer in 2007. I only get one fruit in 2010. So I grafted several branches with Sugar Cane and So in 2011. The Scion woods were from Roger Meyer.

This post was edited by jianhuayegreentree on Fri, Sep 12, 14 at 13:22

    Bookmark   September 12, 2014 at 12:57PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

Bob,

So is a beautiful. I have grafted a root sucker with So two years ago and it is 5 feet tall now and have a few fruits. I am going to leave it alone. I will replace So with Sugar Cane or Honey Jar on my two big fruit trees Because So is stronger growth I don't want it to compete with other varieties. Without compare side by side, you will not taste difference between So and Honey Jar. My children all like Honey Jar as it is a little sweeter and juicer.

This post was edited by jianhuayegreentree on Fri, Sep 12, 14 at 13:41

    Bookmark   September 12, 2014 at 1:16PM
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bob_z6(6b/7a SW CT)

I picked another few So jujubes. Surprisingly, I was able to squeeze a few drops of juice out of both So and the ones my wife bought in Chinatown. The brix is pretty high, topping out around 22-23, which is high as anything I've yet grown. While not bad, the So doesn't taste as good as its brix would indicate. I recently picked a 23.2 brix Hudson's Golden Gem apple which was tastier, though it is also harder to grow.

I also have some other younger trees (Sherwood and Sugar Cane), but they are not yet bearing. I'm planning on adding a few more varieties, including Honey Jar and Shanxi Li. I was going to do it this year, but missed the window to order from Roger Meyers.

Pic:

2 on left, two large jujube from Chinatown, bland and a bit spongy, but not inedible, 11.3 brix

Small one on right, a home-grown "So" jujube, crunchy, mild and sweet, 22.5 brix

    Bookmark   September 16, 2014 at 11:28PM
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denalifan

This my Lang jujube loaded with fruit this year. I bought a pair of them 4 years ago from www.willisorchards.com. They seemed to be a reputable bare root nursery compared to say www.tytyga.com, but as it turned out later, they sold me two Lang trees instead of one Li and one Lang. As you can find in my previous post, both trees were putting out thousands of flowers throughout last 3 years as they branched out, but wouldn't set any fruit. Last year I grafted each of these Lang trees with 6 different varieties and behold... magic happened... Both trees are loaded with fruit to a point where I actually had to stake the branches. The fruit is very large and now starts to get ripe. So in my case it was pollination factor and not the fact they are growing 3 feet apart from one another or anything else.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2014 at 8:42AM
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charlieboring

I planted a sherwood and a GA 866 2 years ago. The sherwood is growing well and is about 8 feet tall this year. The GA 866 is barely alive and probably will be dead by spring. I would like to graft a good variety or 2 on to my sherwood. Any recommendations?

    Bookmark   September 17, 2014 at 10:23AM
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hillrock

I bought one Li and one Lang from willisorchards on 2011, but they decided to send me two Li instead, which was found out two years late. The jujube Li is loaded with fruits, but dry and sponge. Will graft some other varieties to the existing tree next year.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2014 at 3:04PM
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denalifan

Everybody seems to be very happy with tasting qualities of Sugar Cane and Honey Jar (Honey Pot). Also heard a lot if good feedback about so called Li2 and Shanxi Li. So I will graft those next spring.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2014 at 4:23PM
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jianhuayegreentree(6B)

My Li Jujube with a quarter.coin.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2014 at 8:31PM
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