Rose de Rescht question

nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens)March 2, 2014

Have had RdR in a pot for a year now bought as bare root, almost full day sun (apart from late afternoon). In spring it looked wonderful, then after first flush it got terrible damask crud. Sulked all summer long in our heat, had to give it a good haircut early September and it bounced back with a nice flush in October. I'm thinking of placing it in the ground somewhere and I was thinking if planting it in a spot where it only receives morning sun (and not for too long for that matter) is a good idea or it will only end look like a flowerless crudy weed. Any ideas about placing this rose in a med climate?
Nik

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trospero(8)

Nik,
Here in the Pacific Northwest - potentially quite similar climate-wise - I have two instances of 'Rose de Rescht'; one planted in the main garden where it gets full sun all day, and a second one near the house alongside a rather shady path. The one that gets full sun all day looks dreadful from July through late September, but the one that gets only a few hours of sun in the morning and dappled light the rest of the day looks MUCH better all season. The foliage on the shade-dweller isn't flawless, but it looks far more presentable than the other. Does the shadier location affect it's performance? Not that I can tell! Both produce two crops of bloom; Spring and Fall, and rarely a bloom or two in August.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 5:24PM
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rosefolly

I grew Rose de Rescht for many years and just recently removed it. I liked the scent and the color but not the suckering (own-root) or the disease. Here I never saw damask crud, but it got lots and lots of rust. I've grown it in full sun and in morning sun situations. I did not notice a difference.

Folly

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 6:02PM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens)

Thanks Paul, Folly. I think I'll plant it at that spot and just watch how it goes. It doesn't seem to get any mildew here which is what many roses get in spring and fall if planted in partial shade (and many like a lot of DA's and teas whether planted in partial shade or full sun, I'm afraid). Maybe I'll just place the pot at that spot at first, watch that spring flush (if it happens) and then decide. I have a feeling that damask crud is related to sunburn but I don't have enough evidence to support this.
Nik

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 6:57PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

This appears to be another rose where garden conditions make a big difference. I've grown RdR in 2 different locations over a period of years and have never seen any disease on either of them. The first grew on a wall with northern exposure that was in a fair amount of shade all day. It was a short distance away from Europeana which was perpetually covered in mildew. The RdR I have now is in a spot that always gets morning sun as well as either dappled sun or full sun the rest of the day, depending on the time of year which part of the afternoon gets more or less sun. Here this rose flowers almost continuously from spring until winter and does well on low water and only infrequent light feedings.

Melissa

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 8:42PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Not any where close to your zone but wanted to add in that RdR is a terrible black spot magnet for me. And yes, it always looks it's worst in the hottest part of my summer which is considerably cooler than yours. You've given me an idea to move it though. I have a spot where it would get less direct sun in the hottest part of the day and I've been trying to think what to put there. Thanks!

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 12:22AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Ack! How much does 'Rose de Rescht' sucker own-root? Is it as rampant as a Gallica? I know 'Indigo' has the wandering reputation and planted it accordingly, but I planted 'Rose de Rescht', 'Rose du Roi -- original' and 'Blanc de Vibert' in the garden thinking they didn't take-over like the Gallicas (which I planted where they'll be held in-check by cement or railroad ties). They were planted as potted-up bands last Summer. Should I reconsider their placement? Should I dig them up and keep them potted? Or is their suckering just a mild spreading from the base?

:-/

~Christopher

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 12:44AM
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odinthor

I've had 'Rose de Rescht' for years, and nary a sucker in sight (well, other than me). Same with 'Blanc de Vibert'. Only "mild spreading from the base" for the original 'Rose du Roi'', in my experience. 'Indigo' had such a tendency to distantly wander that I removed it from my garden. I have nothing but good to say about 'Rose de Rescht', one of the most dependable of all Old Roses for me.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 11:26AM
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belmont8

No suckering at all for me on own-root "Rose de Rescht" and original "Rose du Roi." I wish they were vigorous enough here to sucker a bit. They have both stayed at about 14" for me.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 11:52AM
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rosefolly

My experience from Rose de Rescht it that it does sucker. I have had this experience with two different plants and in several locations. It doesn't happen right away. For several years after being planted it behaves itself just fine. Then when it feels comfortable (4 or 5 or 6 years) it begins to send out exploratory suckers. If you dig it up and move it to a new spot this acts as a reset. It behaves for another few years, then starts in again. RdR is never as bad as the worst of the gallicas or rugosas, but this is a definite tendency. I would describe it as controllable with moderate maintenance. If you dig out half a dozen suckers a couple times a year, you will be fine. But if you neglect it, it will build up into a small thicket. Unlike La Belle Sultane or Dart's Dash, the worst spreaders in my garden, Rose de Rescht is not trying to take over the whole world, just its own little corner of it.

Folly

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 12:08PM
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harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania

RdR grows vigorously here. It produces a great spring flush and the plant looks beautiful until July. It gets the crud during summer even though I spray it with fungicide 5 or 6 times each season when I do the HT's

My plant is grown in full sun.

RdR was a band from Heirloom. It has produced 7-10 sucker children over 10 years. None of the suckers have sprouted more than 18" from the plant.

Rose de Rescht is growing to the right of the pedestal in the picture below. On the left is the Rugosa Rootesmeer, aka Purple Pavement.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 4:42PM
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trospero(8)

I've never seen 'Rose de Rescht' sucker in the fifteen years I've grown it. I have multiple plants of it, and not one has suckered.

Harryshoe, is it possible to see a photo of the bloom or your 'Rose de Rescht' much closer? If that is your plant to the right of the ceramic piece, its unusually low-growing and procumbent-looking for this cultivar.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 4:56PM
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Campanula UK Z8

my neighbours RdR is practically on the floor most summers, doing that limp Portland thing of flopping everywhere. Perhaps it is a pruning thing but I would never consider RdR as upright - it never gets taller than around 1m high although quite a bit wider. Never noticed any disease issues either - I just don't care for the blooms, the way they are so scrunched up on the branches or the ever present threat of proliferation. Doesn't sucker either, as far as I can see. Not a rose I am keen on but it certainly smells nice. If I had a cottage garden thing going on, then RdR would be an appropriate choice, I think, with quite good matte foliage of a particularly penetrating green.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 9:25AM
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Campanula UK Z8

my neighbours RdR is practically on the floor most summers, doing that limp Portland thing of flopping everywhere. Perhaps it is a pruning thing but I would never consider RdR as upright - it never gets taller than around 1m high although quite a bit wider. Never noticed any disease issues either - I just don't care for the blooms, the way they are so scrunched up on the branches or the ever present threat of proliferation. Doesn't sucker either, as far as I can see. Not a rose I am keen on but it certainly smells nice. If I had a cottage garden thing going on, then RdR would be an appropriate choice, I think, with quite good matte foliage of a particularly penetrating green.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 9:26AM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens)

Since disease is being mentioned, I just want to point out that I've only seen so called 'damask crud' on my RdR. No PM (of which there's a lot in my garden), nor rust or blackspot which are rare and no other fungal attack that I recognise. Now, I have no clue what damask crud is caused by and whether it is the manifestation of some fungal attack or is some physiological reaction to adverse conditions (or both).

Does anybody have a good idea about what damask crud is or its causes? One thing I know is that in my garden it seems impervious to any of the common fungicides I have thrown at it. To me it doesn't look too much like a fungal disease (although I have not used the microscope to check) and it does look much more like an environmental (e.g. sunburn) or even nutrient deficiency thing.
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Tue, Mar 4, 14 at 10:01

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 9:54AM
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avalon2007

I have RdR in a pot in morning sun. Blackspotting fairly badly, doesn't bloom well for me. It hates the early morning fogs we get when the weather is cool- gets BS right away. I'm going to move it into more sun in an attempt to keep the leaves drier.

Roses don't get mildew or rust here (knock on wood!) but they can actually die from BS. I refuse to spray fungicide for many different reasons, so BS-y roses don't make it for long in my garden. I've tried baking soda for black spot- the "BS for BS" cure, and had some good results.

I'm sorry to hear that many folks are disappointed by RdR as I just love the scent and the form of the flower. However, I suspect that I'm not going to have any more success with RdR than anyone else here.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 10:07AM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens)

Avalon, if you have had success with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) maybe you would want to use potassium bicarbonate instead. It should be even more effective and with much lower risk for tissue toxicity (salt damage) and will not sodify your soil.
Nik

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 10:23AM
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harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania

I don't have a bloom picture. Here is a picture of a transplanted sucker to the right of the bench. I think this is a more typical bush form.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 12:09PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

That is absolutley gorgeous, harryshoe, a photo worth stepping into, if it were possible. In fact, I've never see one of your photos that isn't superb--except maybe that pile of snow pic a little while back. Thanks for sharing glimpses of your exquisite garden. Diane

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 2:35PM
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Campanula UK Z8

It is lovely, isn't it.......I especially like the regular beer facilities (comfortable benches).

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 3:35PM
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professorroush(6A)

Wow, all this discussion (sucker/not sucker, disease/disease-free) really makes me wonder if there aren't two or more Rose de Rescht's out there. I now have 3 distinctly separate Rose de Rescht's over a 6 foot area from suckers, it rarely gets any blackspot, and it flowers continuously from first bloom through frost. It's in almost full sun with some late afternoon shade.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 5:08PM
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rosefolly

I was wondering the same thing myself.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 6:31PM
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trospero(8)

Given the number of mislabeled or misidentified roses I acquired from Heirloom years ago, I wondered if perhaps they hadn't distributed some other Portland Damask under that name. 'Ville de Bruxelles', anyone? LOL

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 8:15PM
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harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania

Paul,
The first photo is a few years old. That low flowing look was not typical for that plant. Maybe a late wet snow altered the plant form. Even the Rugosa has canes on the ground.

I'm willing to call it "Ville de Bruxelles". Much nicer name. Everyone thinks I said "Rose de Retch"!

    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 2:17PM
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trospero(8)

Harryshoe: I was not suggesting that what you have is 'Ville de Bruxelles -- simply that Heirloom has provided many erroneously ID'd plants, the most famous of which is their 'Ville de Bruxelles, which -- if I am not mistaken -- can still be purchased. (You get some kind of a remontant Portland under that name.)

    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 5:25PM
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bman1920(5b)

Ok I ordered alba foliacea and cardinal de Richelieu from heirloom for spring. Please tell me they are going to be what I ordered. They have these two plants identified correctly right. If not let me know please.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2014 at 7:10PM
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trospero(8)

bman,
Judging by the photos they use, it appears Heirloom is providing the correct varieties of the two roses you selected.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 9:50AM
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bman1920(5b)

Thanx Prospero for your help. I'm new to growing roses had me a little nervous with all the talk of wrong plants.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 2:03PM
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avalon2007

Nik- thanks for the potassium bicarb tip - will try. Have enough sodium in the air/soil here!

Harryshoe- that photo makes me want to try harder to make my garden as enchanting as yours- just lovely!

    Bookmark   March 10, 2014 at 8:11AM
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Z 7a E Tn

Thank you, Nik, for starting off this discussion. I've learned a lot. Based on what I've read here, I've recently ordered rose de rescht from ARE to replace one of the roses that I fear didn't make it through the winter. Harryshoe, your pictures give me something to aim for! Here's hoping that it does as well in my E. TN garden as it has done in yours. Rose and garden are gorgeous!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2014 at 12:06PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Christopher, I'm glad you took some precautions with Indigo. She not unmanageable but she's persistent.

Rose de Rescht and suckering:
My own-root 10-year-old plant slowly sends envoys abroad from the mother ship. It began after 5 or 6 years in the ground. Just a couple a year. A manageable invasion of my small bed. I read that Paul's plants have never suckered and he and I live in similar areas, so that is interesting info. And, no, my Rescht did NOT come from Heirloom unlike some other oddities in my garden. :-)

She's been fine for me in full sun and part shade. I've grown her in both over the years.

Anybody need a Rose de Rescht?

Carol

    Bookmark   March 15, 2014 at 12:16AM
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