Any ideas to id this rose?

nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)March 22, 2014

I see this rose at the edge of a neglected property not far from my place, on my way to work. I'm sure it is a once bloomer since I only notice it in spring. The other day I stopped and took some pics. I was hoping it might be an interesting find but I then realized it most probably is an understock that has mostly taken over a struggling HT. I can not be sure about it since the base was an overgrown thicket and could not make out whether this was true but I strongly suspect that is the case. You can see the budding red HT in a follow up picture.

I'm far from well versed in identifying roses but this looks like a china to me. I could not notice any fragrance at the time. SInce I know that R. indica 'Major' has been extensively used for understock in Southern Europe I suspect that this is a 'Major' cultivar. What do you think?
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 17:47

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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

Young shoot

    Bookmark   March 22, 2014 at 5:39PM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

My, not large, hand for scale

    Bookmark   March 22, 2014 at 5:40PM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

The HT can be seen on the left side of this pic

    Bookmark   March 22, 2014 at 5:42PM
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ogroser(z6b USA)

It may be Fun Won Lo that was used as an understock long ago. I enjoy its Spring visit each year. Best, Nick

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 12:09AM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

Hi NIck,
I cannot find a rose named Fun Won Lo in HMF but Fun Jwan Lo is listed as a synonym of R. indica Major I was referring to, so we may be talking about the same or very similar roses.
Nik

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 2:13AM
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Campanula UK Z8

mmmm, looks like an old Bengale d'Automne in my college greenhouse....deffo a china, I would say.
Lovely thing!

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 7:25AM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Nik I think you and ogrose are talking about the same rose and I agree with the ID.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 8:39AM
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jacqueline9CA

Wow - what a gorgeous rose! Some of my favorite roses have appeared in my garden because they were root stocks. We inherited a very boring yellow HT, which I didn't really like. One year it finally died and I dug up the stump. Low and behold, the next Spring up came way different canes - long ones! I decided to leave them, to see who they were. After three years they were still proliferating, and had turned into a large bush, but no blooms. I told that bush that it was going to be shovel pruned the next year if it still was not blooming. Voila! That worked. The next Spring it set huge fat buds all over itself, and they bloomed into the most amazingly gorgeous dark dark pink very double blooms. It was identified eventually as "de la Grifferaie". I liked it so much better than that yellow HT! It is still in my garden - we got a large metal obelisk for it to grow on - it is setting buds right now - it is one of the great joys of my garden when it booms. My next door neighbor has one too (both of our homes are old) - I convinced her to tell her landlord to stop weed whacking it down to 18 inches all of the time, and she let it grow and bought it an arbor to grow on. I can see it well right outside of my kitchen window, so I have two to admire now!

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 2:07PM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

I love de la Grifferaie. I have one that was a tiny cutting from Spain that now grows up to the shop roof another I bought.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 5:54PM
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trospero(8)

"I cannot find a rose named Fun Won Lo in HMF but Fun Jwan Lo is listed as a synonym of R. indica Major I was referring to, so we may be talking about the same or very similar roses."

Two names for the same rose, and yes -- I believe that is what you are looking at.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2014 at 6:55PM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

Ok then, R. indica 'Major' is the concensus. I understand this is a very good rootstock for dry - arid and warm conditions, it is compatible with most roses which take easily to it and does not readily sucker. I wonder why it fell out of favour in California. It is also very tolerant of alkaline, calcareous and shallow soils which are predominant where I live. It is not very cold hardy though, so it cannot be used in cold climes, I think zone 7 would be its limit.
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 2:17

    Bookmark   March 24, 2014 at 2:15AM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

This was the one and only found rose in my isolated neighborhood. I found it on a friends property neglected for probably many years. Someone had built a shack and planted a pear tree and a rose. The shack was tumbled down and the pear tree dead on the ground but R. indica Major was in fine shape.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2014 at 9:42AM
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bart_2010(8/9 Italy)

it is so beautiful! But on HMF, the photos all show a flower of a much lighter pink...is this a chancw sport, do you all think, or what? bart

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 7:42AM
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nikthegreek(9b/10a E of Athens, Greece)

This looks to me very close to the colour I saw.
Nik

Here is a link that might be useful: Pic in HMF

    Bookmark   March 26, 2014 at 10:03AM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Beautiful rose and interesting conversation. I've been following the unfolding of the ID of Rosa Indica Maj. Thank you, Nik. I'll have to check out de la Grifferaie, too. It sounds delightful and is totally unamiliar to me. Carol

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 3:19PM
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albinnibla(z7a OKC)

Say, I know where there is a bush of Fun Jwan Lo (which I took for a hybrid bourbon) on my way to work... Might have to take a cutting or two... And to think I almost bought this one a few years ago!

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 4:52PM
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