'Double Xanthina'

roseseekMarch 31, 2012

In the introduction of Xanthina in the 1919 American Rose Annual, the following photo was printed. Might anyone grow this form of Xanthina who might have a sucker (as opposed to cuttings at this time and weather) they might be able and willing to share, please? Thank you. Kim

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mariannese

Is this the same as Rosa hugonis 'Flore Pleno'? I have this rose and have made a note in my rose list that the double R. xanthina is a synonym but I can't remember from where I got this info.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 6:24AM
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roseseek

The references for Flore plena on HMF say what you remember, but to me, they don't appear the same. And, there is a separate Xanthina Allard. Reference is given to more double forms, but does anyone actually grow one?

Here is a link that might be useful: References

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 11:09AM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

My xanthina came from Eurodesert last year, but it is definitely a single. It hasn't suckered yet. However when it does (and I hope it does!) you are welcome to some.

Last year eventhough I saw it blooming at Eurodesert I didn't get a chance to smell those blooms as they weren't in a place convenient for sniffing unless I wanted a wounded nose! But this year it has bloomed in my garden, and what a surprise when I smelled the flower. I was not expecting such a powerful scent. A complicated one too. Not damasky or old rose, not clove either. Doesn't smell quite like any of my other roses. Very hard to place. Fresh clean linen, something floral but not necessarily associated with roses? Maybe freesia plus something else? There is a trace of linseed oil that I can detect (and was expecting to be the main fragrance), but if I wasn't familiar with that aroma, I don't think I would have noticed it.

I hope someone is still growing the double.

Melissa

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 1:57PM
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roseseek

Thank you Melissa. I'm happy to hear you saved Cliff's plant. What I have as single Hugonis has a rather "musty" sweet scent, particularly after the stamen and pollen have dried for a day being prepared to use for breeding. My 1-72-1Hugonis seedling has an even more powerful scent to the pollen and anthers, with larger flowers, nearly no prickles, except at the base of the plant. They are sometimes double and it repeated its flowering last year. Kim

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 2:18PM
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olga_6b

Hugonis from High Country Roses is wonderfully fragrant much more than hugonis from Pickering. They don't even look like the same rose. Both have single flowers though.
Olga

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 8:06PM
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harborrose(8-Puget Sound/PNW)

Kim, I have the r. xanthina spontanea / Manchu Rose that High Country sells. It has not yet bloomed, but High Country says it is a semi-double.

HMF also does not lump Manchu Rose with r. xanthina spontanea, so I am not sure which category the rose High Country sold me actually belongs.

I noticed that r. xanthina spontanea as a separate entry from the Manchu Rose has pics of the one that Melissa has; or it's Cliff's pics, anyway. It is a single.

I saw the duplex picture that Ami Roses posted - is that really a double? I'm posting a link to that picture. it looks like a semi double to me, but sometimes the bloom forms confuse me.

Mine also does have canes w/o bristles.

Hugonis has bristles, I think?? Is this a way to distinguish between the two?

When it blooms I'll post a picture of it. It may not be this year, though. I'm curious to see if its semi double bloom looks like the ones you and Ami roses posted. But who knows how the weather up here will affect it! I guess you want it for breeding? After it blooms, if this is what you want, let me know.

Here is a link that might be useful: r. xanthina duplex from Ami Roses

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 11:42PM
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roseseek

Thank you Gean! I'll eagerly watch for your photos. I don't know how to distinguish between them. The group of yellow Chinese species is a very incestuous lot!

I'm also eagerly searching for a source for R. Hugonis flore plena. Vintage has it as Custom Root. The people I know who had it, don't. I'd love to beg a few suckers from it to get started. I have a hunch I want to determine if is right. Thanks. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: R. Hugonis flore plena

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 1:21AM
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harborrose(8-Puget Sound/PNW)

It has a lot of small buds on it, Kim, which when they bloom, I'll photograph and post. Whether they will be true to its real bloom, I don't know, since it will be the first time it's bloomed. Next year, though, will be its third year. I'll probably plant it this summer, so maybe it will leap next year and will bloom true to form. I have no idea, really.

good luck with your search and taking us along for the ride, Kim.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 4:51PM
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roseseek

Thanks Gean! I understand it's a young plant so it may not demonstrate everything it will eventually do. Xanthina appears to be quite variable. Personally, I feel it shouldn't be termed a "species" because of the great degree of variability it possesses. Who knows what went in to creating it? As you can see from the images on Baidu, the Chinese "Google", it can have greatly varying numbers of petals, something a "species" shouldn't. A few petaloids, perhaps, but from one row of petals to three and four? Like the double forms of Banksiae, it's a long- grown garden selection, perhaps hybridized with something else long before hybridization was fully understood. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Xanthina on Baidu (Chinese

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 5:29PM
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harborrose(8-Puget Sound/PNW)

What a great group of pictures, Kim. Thanks for sharing that site. Whoa!

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 1:47AM
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roseseek

You're welcome Gean. I have to pass those thanks on to Jack Linn, who shared it with me. He speaks Chinese fluently so he moves around Baidu easily. Amazing the range of variations called "Xanthina", isn't it? Kim

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 11:14AM
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harborrose(8-Puget Sound/PNW)

Yes, and I wondered about it because I saw bristly stems as well as smooth. A whole variation of petal count and even colors. Do they call all the early yellows "xanthina"?

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 12:02PM
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roseseek

What they're called seems to depend to whom you are reading, apparently.

Xanthina Hugonis http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=10749

Xanthina Ecae http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=51876

Yet, further seedlings and selections of Ecae are called Ecae hybrids, not Xanthina hybrids.

Ecae primula http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5398.4

There are such similarities, who knows? VERY confusing. Kim

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 2:04PM
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