Rose de Rescht in the South Bay

cramoisiMarch 17, 2012

This is meant as a possible followup to an earlier post from Luxrosa concerning this rose's tendency to rust and defoliate in the East Bay. I am concerned about growing Rose de Rescht in the South Bay, about twelve miles northwest of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. Would the same tendencies to rusting and defoliating apply here? Any experience or advice would be welcome.

Many thanks,

Larry

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roseseek

Larry, how prone are roses to rust and defoliate in general in your area? That should tell you much of what you ask. I could grow RdR in the Santa Clarita Valley with few rust issues, but I can't here in Encino. It's not as hot here as it was in Santa Clarita, but it's much more humid and the rose is just too susceptible to the fungus. Kim

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 9:17PM
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north_ca_rose(9b)

Larry,
I live in Livermore and grow the rose in 5 or less hours of sun. In the three years this rose has been in the ground, I have not seen any evidence of rust on the rose. And last year was a very bad year for rust in my garden.

Karen

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 9:41PM
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bellegallica_zone9(9)

Oh, the Portlands. Sigh. I love the whole IDEA of this class, but I have finally given up on them. I've tried to fool myself, turn a blind eye, but this spring my neighbor took a look at my Pickering Four Seasons and said in the most tender and reluctant tone, "This one looks soooo .... bad."

I don't know exactly where these look/perform their best, but I feel like it must be where the winters are long and COLD and the summers short and cool. I feel like once the temps and humidity rise above a certain point, the Portlands are toast.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 11:33PM
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odinthor

The Damask Perpetuals/Portlands have long been my pet class; but I'd say bellegallica is exactly right: they're probably at their best where the summers are short and cool. While neither of my specimens of 'Jacques Cartier' ever show any rust at all, my 'Pickering Four Seasons', my 'Rose du Roi', my 'Yolande d'Aragon', and, to a lesser degree, my 'Joasine Hanet' alias 'Portland from Glendora' and indeed my 'Portlandica' itself, all rust up during our "June gloom" here in So. Cal. But, eh, then it gets hot, the rusty leaves drop, new ones come in and are healthy, life goes on. But, as a class, their remontancy is best during Spring-like temperatures--neither hot nor cool. Rust or not, remontancy or not, I wouldn't be without my Damask Perpetuals.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2012 at 11:53PM
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roseseek

Portlands were spotless for the 18 years I grew them in Newhall, Santa Clarita Valley. Winters were colder than the San Fernando Valley, and summers hotter. The humidity was significantly less there than here and along the coast. I believe that's the key. I currently deal with a Jacques Cartier in Stevenson Ranch in the SCV and it has no disease ever. Half day full sun, much hardscape reflecting and radiating heat in front, to the side and from behind it. Kim

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:37AM
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rosefolly

Larry, I live about 10-12 miles due west of the SJHRG. I have grown Rose de Rescht for quite a few years. It does get some rust in my garden, but it is not a serious problem most years. Long ago I culled most of the roses that suffer highly from rust here (with two or three exceptions).

RdR was on the keeper list. I think it is worth growing here. It will travel on its own roots, much like a gallica or a rugosa, so be aware of that when you place it.

Rosefolly

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 3:35AM
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sadie_pnw

Indigo, Marchesa Bocella and Rose de Rescht do well up here in No Sun Sponge Land, going into their third spring. Few to no foliage problems and they bloom well. Portland from Glendora has done well so far also, but is much younger. Indigo seems to be the most sensitive.

Marie de St. Jean from Vintage is coming soon, and I am excited to get it. I like this class a lot. Or I should say this class seems to like it here?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 3:42AM
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rosefolly

I should mention that 'Yolande d'Aragon' and 'Glendora' both do very well here for me (no significant disease at all), but 'Rose du Roi' and 'Indigo' were pathetic, grew backwards, and died. Not all Portlands are created equal. The three I grow these days are all quite robust.

Rosefolly

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 12:56PM
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kristimama

How interesting and widely varied our microclimates are here in the Bay Area. I have 2 Rose du Roi of Commerce plants near the Walnut Creek border, and the foliage is perfectly clean.

Rose de Rescht, if I recall, did really well here too, about 10 years ago, before she got yanked in a massive home remodel. The only reason I haven't replaced her is she has those vicious thorns. Don't. Like. Thorns.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 1:20PM
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lbuzzell(z10 CA)

I too love the Damask Perpetuals but so far they don't seem to really like our coastal area. Marchesa Boccella is growing, but slowly. Rose de Rescht still tiny and leafless right now. I fell in love with Glendora at one of the historic gardens in Monterey where it was a healthy 6+ feet tall with gorgeous fragrant blooms to die for. But my own-root Glendora from Vintage is now going backwards, 2 out of 3 canes died back this year. I'm so sad about that.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2012 at 4:07PM
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cramoisi

Everyone,

Always great posts. I hope I can catch up some day.

Kim: Excellent points, as always. And is Jacques Cartier sometimes sold as Marquise Boeccella?

Rosefolly: Thanks for the advice about suckering. (And thanks for your previous answer concerning HPs, too.)

Harborrose: Thanks for the glimmer of hope. By the way, here, we are usually dry as a bone from the beginning of June to the end of October.

Thanks again,

Larry

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 7:28PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Not even close to your climate but my RdR will both black spot and mildew at the same time for me. But I love it anyway :).

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 7:40PM
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wanttogarden(USDA 9b, Sunset 15, N. Calif.)

Has your RdRs leafed out yet? I am trying to figure out if mine ( planted in mid Jan.) is dead or still too soon for it to leaf out. I just cut the top of the canes by 1/8 " and they are whitish and fresh. But not swelling of leaf buds anywhere.
My pickering's Four Season Rose has leafed out and growing (new this year too). My Summer Damask is starting to unfurl its leaves.

Thanks,
FJ in San Jose

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:51PM
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north_ca_rose(9b)

My RdR has just started to leaf out at the tips of the canes.
Karen (Livermore)

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 10:01PM
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roseseek

You're welcome Larry. Yes, nearly thirty years ago, the confused cultivar argument going around was between the Portland, Jacques Cartier and HP, Marquise Boccella. Since then, they have become combined. At one time, they probably were different roses, but what exists has become standard for both names. Kim

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 10:45PM
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catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14

FJ in San Jose, I can second Karen's observation that, here in Livermore, RdR has barely started leafing out -- absolutely last among 70 rose cultivars. -- Debbie

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:57AM
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odinthor

Here in my coastal So. Cal. garden, 'Rose de Rescht' 's leafing out is about par with everything else--neither early or late. I have a 'Rose du Roi' (the original, not the "of commerce") immediately adjacent to a 'Pickering Four Seasons'; and, in light of the theory that Pickering represents a sport of Roi, it's maybe worth pointing out that my Pickering's leafing out is about two weeks ahead of that for Roi. About 'Jacques Cartier' and 'Marquise Boccella', the difference is the height of the plants. The *Magazine of Horticulture* of 1849, as well as Rivers in at least 1846 (keeping track of the differences between Rivers' various editions would be an interesting task!), find the Marquise to be "dwarf"--more so than the likes of 'Baronne Prevost', 'Duchesse de Sutherland', and 'La Reine'--while 'Jacques Cartier', in my experience, always quickly reaches six feet plus. Alice Flores had nursery rows of the short and the tall, and kindly provided me with one of each years ago. I grew them next to each other, under exactly similar conditions, and the height difference remained constant; also, for me, the 'Marquise Boccella' was not as profuse as 'Jacques Cartier', and I eventually got rid of it. With some observation and hard work, commerce could straighten out which of the two is being offered and could present them under their right names. It makes a difference, as I'd definitely recommend 'Jacques Cartier' (the tall one), but am dubious about 'Marquise Boccella' (the short one). 'Rose de Rescht', however, is always good; and the original 'Rose du Roi' is really a magnificent rose. Hurrah for the Damask Perpetuals/Portlands!

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 11:52AM
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