madame Pierre ..... idk what to do with

Adrift-in-beauty(9b)March 28, 2014

I have a madame Pierre ogerbwith one very long cane and one short very bushy cane (looks funny) ... I was thinking I would tie the long cane to my wall and encourage it to climb ...
Good idea or no ..... does this Rose like being pruned ... I transplanted her two or three months back from the pot I bought;! her in into the ground and she sulked a bit but seems to be feeling better ..
. I would like to prune her to encourgae her to climb and fertilize her ... is this a good idea or too soon

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jacqueline9CA

WAIT. Do not prune her! Old roses need more time than modern roses to grow out of their "baby" stages. She has been growing roots and getting organized.

This is a gorgeous rose. HMF says it grows to 8 feet, and can be trained as a climber. It sounds as if you planted her next to a wall? Is the long cane still growing, or has it stopped getting longer? When you are sure it is as long as it is going to get, I would gently bend it as horizontal as you can get it, and tie it to the wall. That way it will put out flowers all along its length (if you tie it straight up, you will get one flower at the top).

Don't worry about the bushy short cane - it needs that to feed itself. It will make more long canes later. I would not fertilizer her until you see a lot of new top growth, and then only once until next year. As I said, she is growing roots, and you cannot see those.

Eventually she will make new long canes, and you train them on the wall also (try the opposite direction from where you put the first one). This may take a year, or two, or three - old roses require patience.

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:52AM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I just went out there and she has a lil cane starting it about six inches long ... yay I think I can tie the frist one ... its not grown in a month and has a few buds starting on it .... the whole bush is very alive full of new growth its finally coming out of its sulk lmao I'll post some pics .... oh no it has the beginnings of powdery mildew ugh

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 11:38AM
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jacqueline9CA

Don't panic about the mildew - many OGRs get that as babies, and then "grow out of it" in a year or two.

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 2:06PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I am glad I posted this cause I would have cut all the affected area off and sprayed. With peroxide .
.. instead I will spray it and leave it alone ... all the pics I see of this rose she has nice tight lil bell shaped flowers mine look kinda blown out is that normal

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 2:44PM
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jacqueline9CA

The shape you are referring to is called "cupped". However, ALL rose blooms eventually open fully (blown), and then die and hang on the bush or drop off neatly. Most people who are taking pictures of their roses of course like to take pictures when the roses are either buds or at their nicest looking, so you will not see pictures of what the blooms look like when they are finished.

The next time your rose produces blooms, look at the new ones. Also, your rose is a BABY, and baby roses frequently produce blooms that are way different from the ones it will produce when it is grown up. Patience is a virtue!

Jackie

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 3:25PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

Here she is .I tied her kinda funny so she would get some limbs off the ground and hopefully help air flow that like trellis is 2 1/2 feet tall

    Bookmark   April 1, 2014 at 9:43PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

I'd follow Jackie's advice as you are doing. She's spot on! Don't forget to sniff those yummy blooms. Bourbons are romantic to the eyes and decadent to the nose. If you get impatient during Madame's awkward stage, Google photos of her in full glory. It helps bridge the gap. Carol

    Bookmark   April 2, 2014 at 1:10AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

It depends upon where you are located. Bourbons do very well in many places, but can be a disaster in much of Southern California.

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 2, 2014 at 5:45PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

I'm so sorry, Jeri! I guess the rose world is compensating those of us who can't grow all those gorgeous teas and Chinas to perfection. I just dug out what was briefly a stunning ceanothus. My second attempt, darn it! I can envision a bed filled with big fluffy tea roses, Califonia poppies, gaura, and a deep blue ceanothus in the background. Alas, only in my (soggy, cloud-covered) dreams. Carol

    Bookmark   April 2, 2014 at 10:27PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I live in Florida do you think madame Pierre do well here . I made the.mistake of assuming if its sold here it grows well here ..... i found out jfks do not grow well here ugh and queen Elizabeth is ugly here no leaves and even with a spray rountine rampant black spot ugh . Jackie heres a pic of my madame Pierre with its werid blooms

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 10:13AM
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albinnibla(z7a OKC)

She is going to be LOVELY against that wall! You might want to get her sister to keep her company!

Here is a link that might be useful: La Reine Victoria

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 12:43PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

And who might that be

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 12:54PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I feel stupid I just saw your link lmao... she sounds wonderful maybe next year after I see how much room I still have I will find a spot for her... or maybe I'll grow some b@lls and plant things in my yard .. and not worry that the dog will pee on it

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 1:29PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I feel stupid I just saw your link lmao... she sounds wonderful maybe next year after I see how much room I still have I will find a spot for her... or maybe I'll grow some b@lls and plant things in my yard .. and not worry that the dog will pee on it

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 1:30PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Adrift, I've been studying the photo of your blooms. As Jackie mentioned, young roses may look quite different from mature ones. However, it might also be the case that your rose was mislabeled. You could be growing some other great Bourbon like Martha or Kathleen Harrop (two sports of Zepherine Drouhin). Maybe other Bourbon lovers will reply with their thoughts. In the meantime, I'd wait to see what develops. Train her as you have been. How does she smell by the way? Carol

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 3:26PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

BUT CAROL! If Teas don't "do" for you, Bourbons just may be wonderful.

Not only that, but you can likely grow the Hybrid Perpetuals that are "iffy" at best for me. AND you can grow the wonderful Gallicas and Damasks and Albas!

You should somewhere have 'Mme. Caroline Testout' and 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam'! There ARE Heritage Rose groups that know your area well -- but generally speaking, you should be able to grow the roses that frustrate me.

:-)

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 4:15PM
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patricianat

Pin MIP's canes back to the ground or to her own canes and watch her put out more shoots and cane and bloom more prolifically.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 4:18PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

OH -- I think Carol made a good point, btw. I'm not sure that's Mme. Pierre Oger, either.

Take a look at the REAL MPO in pictures posted to HelpMeFind, and see if you normally see these delicate cups.

Even here, where MPO was a real stinker of a rose, the blooms (what there were of them) looked like the ones you see on HMF.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Mme. Pierre Oger at HelpMeFind

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 6:35PM
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patricianat

Have you sprayed your MPO with something? If not, the leaves look a little different in texture to me, maybe misshapen a bit. I have MPO in Alabama and the bloom looks similar but not identical but it appears yours has been sprayed with something, like insecticide or if someone sprayed an herbicide nearby? The bloom color looks the same, the delicacy of it looks the same. The leaves and bloom concern me that they may have been sprayed or that they are virused. Mine did not do well in Alabama, if that helps you. I shovel-pruned mine after about 10 years of babying it.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2014 at 8:51PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Jeri, thank you for reminding me that the grass is very green on my side of the fence, too...or the roses bloom as brightly...or some such mixed metaphor. I don't know why I get stuck on all those California loving plants, but, alas, I do. Yes, there are some really wonderful OGRs that grow very well in Portland. Just not-so-much teas. Here I call them "tease." I think I'll go out in the garden and smile at my damasks. I may also take your suggestions of Madame Caroline and Lady Mary to heart. They would definitely ease my withdrawals. :-)

Patricia43, I believe that Adrift sprayed the leaves with peroxide because of mildew.

Adrift, where did your Madame P Oger come from? If it was a nursery, perhaps the staff there can help with your questions about ID/unusual blooms.

Carol

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 5:20AM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I bought it at lowes it looked very very different the blooms looked more true to internet pics ... my dad sprayed all sorts of things in my garden before I could stop him I never thought any of that would affect my. Mpo ....

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 6:58PM
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edenh(z9)

hi
I also bought 4 Pierre Oger from lowes. Right now they are in 7 gallon pots and growing bigger and bigger everyday. They are growing long canes and with buds. Can someone tell me how big they get in 9b zone and how far apart should I plant them? Another strange thing..the new growth are always looking wilted even though the soil is damp. And it looks like they have some powdery mildew..will post pics later.Thanks

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 10:03PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

The MPO we had here determinedly grew to the top of our 12-ft. retaining wall, and over 4-ft. to tap on my window. All that with very little bloom and lots of fungal disease was enough to convince me that I do not live in Bourbon-Country.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2014 at 10:50PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

Jerijen where do u live I hope this will not be my exeriance with her

    Bookmark   April 5, 2014 at 9:11AM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I've been giving it a lot more water and a like shade in the hottest part of them day her newest blooms look a lot better don't ya think

    Bookmark   April 6, 2014 at 5:23PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

I think she's blooming better

    Bookmark   April 6, 2014 at 8:31PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Adrift -- We are in coastal Ventura County, SoCal. Our conditions are in a great state of flux, but the constant is that our increasingly scarce water is highly alkaline and saline.

We have little-to-no winter chill, and our summers are still mild, by comparison to more inland areas.

Warm-climate roses -- Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes -- are good choices for us. Northern European roses -- evolved to require a winter dormancy -- don't succeed here.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2014 at 11:28PM
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annabeth(Zone 8 No Cal inland)

My Mme Pierre Oger (and I think others' too) has a sensitivity to sunlight. They start out very light pink except for where the sun darkened their edges when they were still a bud. So they have a sort of edging when they open until the sun darkens the whole bloom. Mine are very cupped. My bush is not vigorous and has been planted a while and I think it is still sulking. I'm glad you said to be patient, Jackie.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 2:45AM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

What a beauty Anna beth and I agree to much sun makes her unhappy I might move her to a less sunny location .. like indirect for most of the morning and afternoon sound good

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 3:24PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

Here is an update on her progress she is throwing new canes like wild bllomin the no tomorrow and shaken of the powdery mildew ... what a show stopper she is .. I am back to dreams of he climbing around my daughter window .

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 9:01AM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Adrift,

Congratulations! Your rose is performing beautifully. She looks lovely against the wall--very sweet and romantic. The color is perfect. Your daughter will feel like someone in a fairy tale. Your rose still doesn't look quite like Madame Pierre to me, but to be honest, I like your rose better against the white stucco than I do the picture I have in my head of the Madame Pierres I've known and grown climbing in that location. The color of your rose, the hint of light salmon and the deeper central color, really glows against that cottage white wall. I'd name your rose Cinderella, the rose of (possibly) mistaken identity. Chapter 1: Cinderella is hidden away in the scullery, I mean the garden shelves of Lowe's. Chapter 2: a fairy godmother appropriately named Adrift in Beauty spots Cinderella and recognizes a princess in a pot. Chapter 3: Cinderella at the ball (on the wall) is identified as a princess, but the bell chimes. Chapter 4: the princess may not be whom everyone thought she was. Chapter 5: but wait! A glass slipper (a drink of water) and she IS a princess...more beautiful than the princesses of dreams! Obviously, I adore your rose and her location. Your fulfilled design is going to knock people's socks off! Please send more photos as your princess climbs up the wall and around the window. Does she smell yummy?

:-)
Carol

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 6:17PM
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edenh(z9)

Hi
here is my "Pierre Oger" bought on sale for $3.00 each from Lowes. I was browsing around at Lowes and follow my nose to these mesdames. I am not sure if they are the same as "Madame Pierre Oger" because the label is missing the "Madame" part. They are very vigorous grower, reaching almost 5' now. They are in 7 gallon pots but I have to put them in the ground soon...The blooms balled because we have a lot of rain..and they are near the sprinkler. I do have a question though. How far apart should I plant them? The new growth is now hardened so is it better to cut them and wait for new ones to train laterally?


Thanks.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 8:44PM
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Adrift-in-beauty(9b)

Edenh she seems to be the same as my mpo .. although Portland says it does not look quite right .. but we both have pretty young bushes so maybe as they mature they will look like mpo. And Portland I totally am going for that fairytale look in my garden and daughter's room I want her room and window view to surround her in beauty. She is my magical fairy child. I will post pics when she climbs the wall.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 10:25PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Eden, your roses look rather like Duchesse de Brabant to me. Duchesse is such a favorite of mine that I grow her in soggy Portland--obviously not tea country--and just cut off the gushy blooms when it's too rainy for her liking. Are you familiar with Duchesse? I don't see the characteristic wavy leaves in your photos, though. In my experience, she always exhibits this characteristic to some degree. If your roses are Duchesse, you may want to place them differently than MPO. Duchesse makes a medium-large fluffy shrub as your plants have. MPO is a medium-large arching shrub that grows best, in my opinion, as a climber or pillar rose. Maybe some other forum members with wider tea/bourbon experience will comment. Your roses are absolutely beautiful, by the way! I mean REALLY, REALLY beautiful!! Carol

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 5:32PM
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