Which Would You Choose?

Sow_what? Southern California InlandApril 23, 2014

Given a hot, dry climate (but adequate irrigation and good soil), which of the following would you choose, and why? Which ONE would be your top choice? I'm particularly interested in beautiful blooms that repeat well.

Queen of Sweden
Evelyn
Crepuscule
Mme Alfred Carriere
Strawberry Hill
Radio Times
Sharifa Asma
Scepter d'Isle
Duchesse de Brabant

Thanks for your feedback.
jannike

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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

I have grown Radio Times, Strawberry Hill and Duchesse de Brabant/Comptess de la Barthe.

Strawberry Hill was shovel pruned after 2 seasons because of its gangly habit and vicious 7 foot octopus stems. The blooms were stunning and wonderfully scented, but blew very quickly and was slow to repeat. The plant was much like a hybrid tea. Prickly and ugly with a few flowers way up in the air. If you plant it, put it in the back. Way back. You will still enjoy the scent. The glossy almost tropical foliage was gorgeous I must admit, but just not enough of it to obscure the ugly stems.

Radio Times is a lovely cutting rose that will last a week in a vase. Wait for the terminal bud to blow (you usually get 5+ buds per spray). Once that first flower is faded the rest will be almost mature, so cut it off and take the bunch inside where you can enjoy the sweet, strong fruity rose scent. 2 or 3 sprays makes a good bunch. It repeats well too. The plant is a bit rangy though, almost rambling, and sends 5 foot canes off in all directions, so I prune it back hard very once sprays are harvested. Foliage is healthy enough with no spraying. If you plant it, plant some nice shrubs around it, because itâÂÂs not a landscape plant.

Although sheâÂÂs only new, the Duchesse would be my top choice. She is a lovely formed and foliated bush that fits nicely into the landscape and is nowhere near as prickly as the other two. Not sure how the blooms last when cut, but they are lovely, very abundant and have a strong, sweet tea scent. Go for the Duchesse.

This post was edited by adamharbeck on Wed, Apr 23, 14 at 3:44

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 3:42AM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

Both 'Crepuscule' and 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' are hot competitors in my zone 8 Mediterranean garden, MAC a particularly fragrant, easy rose with beautiful blooms, though it does mildew. However probably my first choice would be 'Sharifa Asma', one of the most fragrant roses I grow, with sturdy upright growth that doesn't get out of hand. I don't water my roses once they're established, nor fertilize them to speak of, and SA, in full sun and rather stony ground, has slowly grown into a shapely sturdy plant, rather like a Portland in habit. I've never grown 'Duchesse de Brabant', but am a great fan of the Teas. Of the roses I know and have mentioned here, the choice would depend partly on space. 'Crepuscule' takes a lot of room, so does MAC if it's not starved, while 'Sharifa Asma' is a compact plant.
Melissa

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 5:50AM
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rosefolly

Crepuscule. No question in my mind. One of my all-time favorite roses, and it thrives in a warm, sunny climate.

My second choice would be Sharifa Asma for its excellent fragrance.

Duchesse de Brabant and MAC both mildewed here. YMMV, since they are healthy in some climates.

Scepter'd Isle is one of Austin's octopus roses. Might be okay if you train it horizontally as a small climber.

I have not personally grown the other four on your list.

Folly

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 12:00PM
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Desertgarden- NW Las Vegas Z9a @ 2300 f

Sharifa Asma was a horrible rose here, with good soil, adequate water and morning sun only.

It is a beautiful rose, but I would not try it again....

Duchesse de Brabant could perform well for you as your climate is more arid.

Lynn

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 1:25PM
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JoshTx(8a)

My vote would be for the Duchesse or Crepuscule.

They've both been chosen to grow in the cemetery near me and they're doing very well.

Josh

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 1:49PM
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ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

I've only grown Duchesse de Brabant and Crepuscule on your list, and I think they're both excellent. Since I love pink roses, DdB would be my first choice. She's one of the few teas that I can actually smell, and the flowers and shrub are graceful and beautiful. I would plant it where it has afternoon shade, and a good layer of mulch.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 11:22PM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Adam, a client has Strawberry Hill; the color, blooms, and fragrance are to die for. But I have no knowledge about the repeat, so thank you for that information. Gangly form and octopus canes don't concern me at all, but filling me in on their tendency to pop up, and on the form of each shrub is extremely helpful. My main priorities are exquisite and abundant blooms that repeat well, and hopefully fragrance. Overall, your detailed descriptions of the roses you're familiar with is an enormous help -- thank you! By the way, it's my understanding that Duchesse de Brabant can be grown as a short climber. Does that seem true with yours?

Melissa, thanks for the great descriptions as well. Between Crepuscule and Madame Alfred Carriere, which would you choose? Which of the two is bigger, and which blooms most profusely?

Folly, how long does your Crepuscule get, and does it seem suitable to cover a large pergola?

Lynn, what was it about Sharifa Asma that was horrible?

Josh and Ingrid, thanks for your votes for DdB and Crepuscule. Can you give some detail about size, abundance of blooms, bloom frequency, cane flexibility?

Very, very helpful information from everyone -- thanks a bunch!

jannike

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 9:43AM
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rosefolly

My Crepuscules (I love it so much I have two) are young, but the older one is going to fill a an 8'x10' fence panel probably by this year. That is as large as I have seen it grown but I don't know its maximum size.

Not sure what you mean by pergola. People use this word to mean all kinds of different structures these days. Originally it meant a series of arches covering a pathway, kind of a tunnel of flowers effect with a rose (or other flower) planted at the base of each pillar. These days I often hear it used to describe an arbor. Not trying to be word-fussy here, just not wanting to give you the wrong information. Crepuscule is not the kind of rose sometimes described as a house eater. While there are exceptions, most of the truly enormous roses that can swallow a shed for breakfast are once bloomers. They put their energy into growth as opposed to repeat bloom. Crepuscule repeats well. It gets quite big but not enormous. And it responds well to heat.

Folly

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 12:19PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Most roses show tendencies to mildew within weeks of being here in Santa Monica and Sharifa Asma has yet to exhibit that problem. I will also vouche for its wonderful fragrance. The last time I was at the Berkeley Rose Garden it was one of the three best smelling roses to my nose that day. That said, I would plant a Tea or Noisette if I had the space and a maximum number of blooms was my main criterion for selection. If you get enough heat, Crepescule seems like a wonderful rose as others have mentioned.

I will also add that Queen of Sweden is incredibly beautiful in person and I'd love to try it myself. I've read that it can cope with heat and blooms more reliably during the hottest parts of summer than many Austins. That may interest you, though it stays fairly cool here in the summers about a mile or so from the beach.

Jay

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 3:27PM
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Desertgarden- NW Las Vegas Z9a @ 2300 f

Sow_what,

It was sp'd if I recall correctly, because it couldn't take the heat. The blooms fried or due to the sun were very faded. If you do not have summers as hot as here, it could be fine in morning sun. I believe some people in Texas grow it.

Lynn

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 3:33PM
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ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

I second what Folly mentioned about Crepuscule. I don't remember the branches as being especially limber, not long and thin at any rate.

DdB was a graceful bush with rather slender canes, which seems fairly typical of teas, and it had good rebloom. I don't remember it being ever totally covered with blooms, except reasonably so for a while during the spring flush.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 7:41PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

Jannike,
About choosing between 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' and 'Crepuscule': I would be like the donkey that starved to death because it couldn't decide which of the two piles of hay it was tied between it wanted to feed from. They're both fine good roses, and neither of mine is growing in favorable conditions, so I can't tell you how an optimally grown plant would be. 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' is the more fragrant to my nose and has perhaps individually more beautiful blooms, more suitable for cutting--also I like white roses. It's an early bloomer, while 'Crepuscule' is late, though the latter is also in a rather dank shady spot which might retard its flowering, though I suspect its musk heritage. 'Crepuscule' doesn't get fungal disease that I've noticed (I don't spray), while MAC suffers more from both bugs and mildew, not that they seem to bother it. Both can reach respectable climber dimensions. My 'Crepuscule' is espaliered along a wall and is currently about 7' x 15', this with a generous annual pruning. The better-treated of my two plants of MAC, with a peculiar half-shrub half-climber training, is currently occupying a good deal of real estate: about eight feet in all directions. Both roses are fairly flexible and have few thorns, so they're easy to train. My choice would be based on the garden context: what plants are growing close to the spot I wanted to put my rose, and which would look best with them? And how much room is available?
Melissa
P.S. I just went out and had a good look at 'Crepuscule' and it does have a touch of mildew right now. There's a lot of disease on the roses in our wet sticky spring.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 3:04AM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

Um, I'd say that the duchesse is not cut out for climbing. In saying that, I think there is a climbing form.
Strawberry Hill would probably be ok as a short climber with some work.

If you like pink, I'm very impressed with my new mrs b r cant. Apparently she gets big, but aside from that I've never heard a negative comment about her. Here she is in a float bowl with monsieur tillier and Tipsy Imperial Concubine.

Adam

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 7:10AM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

Since you have multiple Austins on your potential list Jannike, you might want to take a trip to the Huntington. They have a large collection of Austins, and you could see the flowers and the growth habit of mature plants. Compare lots of them together and see which you like best. I've found that many roses that look good there also look good in my gardenl, even though my location is hotter and dryer.

Melissa

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 5:37PM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

I visited a botanic park today where they had massed crepuscule in the parking area. They looked lovely grown as weeping shrubs. If you have a raised or sloped garden bed go for that.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 10:15AM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Folly, thanks for that information, I remember reading somewhere the Madame Alfred Carriere is a house eater, and I'm wondering if that would be true in my hot, dry climate?

Jay, I grew up in Sana Monica, and miss the ocean breezes. It would be worth putting up with some mildew to be back in that temperate climate. It's amazing the difference (aka misery) just a few miles inland can make. My concern is whether our heat is too high for Crepuscule and the other roses. I have my eye on the incredibly beautiful Queen of Sweden in a client's garden, but want to see how it performs during our hot and sometimes even brutal summers. And if Sharifa Asma does well for you, I'm suspecting it might do well for my coastal Orange County friends?

Lynn: I used to travel through Las Vegas frequently, and your weather is typically a bit hotter than mine. That said, triple digits are not at all unusual here.

Ingrid, did it seem to you that Duchesse could be trained as a climber? She's listed as growing to six feet, and I assume she could be taller in my climate?

Melissa, your donkey has nothing on me (lol) -- I'm the queen of perseveration. I have to know everything about everything before I make up my mind. That said, with all the help from this forum, I have managed to choose a lot of roses this season. Which do you find more floriferous between MAC and Crepuscule, and do you think MAC could be a house eater?

Adam, love your picture, and thanks for the reference to Mrs BR Cant. I thought the climber and shrub of DdB were one and the same . . . no??? How old is yours?

Melissa (Tessiess), I'd love to fit in a trip to the Huntington -- it's been way too long! I suspect my climate might be similar to yours, since I'm just a few miles east of you. Which are some of the roses that perform best for you?

Adam, let's see that parking lot picture!

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. So far I'm very pleased with the many roses you've all helped me pick.

jannike

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 6:03AM
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ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

jannike, I don't think the bush DdB could be trained as a climber. It's been my experience that teas grow more slowly in a hot, dry climate than they do in a more humid one. I think it's not only the humidity but rain as opposed to watering that makes them grow huge. However, the quality of the soil also makes a difference and mine is unfortunately poor. None of my teas have reached more than 5 feet in six years and most are considerably less.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 11:35AM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

My Duchess is still just a baby, a few months in and about 2 feet tall. But she's already justified her existence with almost non-stop flowering.

I made the mistake of visiting the gardens with my rose-hating parents, so I never got to visit all the plantings and didnâÂÂt take any photos apart from one of Marie van Houtte which came up blurry.
BUT. I plan on heading back there this weekend, so I'll be sure to take some snaps.
In the interim, the garden has a dedicated rose website. But unfortunately there are no pics of Crepuscule.
http://www.araluen-roses.org/the-front-car-park.html

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 9:41PM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Adam, you are right. There is a climbing version of Duchesse de Brabant. Does anyone know where I can get it?

I can't wait to see your pictures of Crepuscule!

jannike

    Bookmark   April 29, 2014 at 9:20PM
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muscovyduckling(Melbourne, Australia)

I'm no rose expert, but I'm in hot, sunny Australia and a LOT of my neighbours grow Crepuscule. Our summer temps usually hover between 80 and 95 degrees F, but we do often have several weeks of 110 degrees. Winter temps between 50 and 60 ish.

Crepuscule does well here in both full sun and part shade. It seems to prefer sun though, where it always has some blooms throughout the summer months, but it has two main flushes in Spring and Autumn which would stop traffic. My neighbour has a large hedge of Crepuscule and it's pretty dangerous driving past his place in spring and autumn :)

So I think it should do fine in a hot climate.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 9:28PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

Muscovyduck answered sow-what's question to me, about the floriferousness of 'Crepuscule'. Mine is in too much shade for me to be able to give a fair answer to the question.
By the way, 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' seems to have liked our wet winter (and fall, and spring) and is blooming gloriously. I'm sorry now I didn't leave her more long canes to arch gracefully out and down, because they're beautiful as can be, strung with big white fragrant flowers. She does smell good.
Melissa

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 12:51AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

I have grown three plants of Duchesse de Brabant.

Two mildewed terminally (I agree with Ingrid, ample rainfall, as opposed to irrigation, might have prevented that).

The third is a strong-growing healthy plant with no mildew.

Go figure.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2014 at 12:21PM
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gnabonnand(Zone 8 Texas)

My choice would be 'Duchesse de Brabant'.
Finest scent of any rose to my nose.

Randy

    Bookmark   May 3, 2014 at 9:35PM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

As promised

    Bookmark   May 4, 2014 at 1:45AM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

Closeup

    Bookmark   May 4, 2014 at 1:47AM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

Side on.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2014 at 1:48AM
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