What and where was Angel's Camp?

altoraMA(5/6 MA)April 2, 2012

I notice that there have been several 'found' roses discovered there-does anybody have any info on this place?

Thank you.

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roseseek

There is a web site you'll find interesting. California frequently had the latest and newest of many "fashions" because of many factors. The State was rich in land, gold and silver, water, cattle, trade, railroads, agriculture, which all generated substantial money. Money permits appetites to be indulged so many European "fashions", from art, clothing, furniture, "modern conveniences"; imported, dismantled European castles and estates and new rose creations to be made available across the state here nearly as early as they were introduced. Add the very benign climate with an exploding population and it's no wonder so many "lost treasures" have been rediscovered here, particularly from the central to northern portions of the state where there is significantly more natural rainfall. Much of the more northern sections get twice and more rain than many of the southern areas.

You might find this of interest. California Nursery Company existed for nearly 140 years and was known across the state. I'm sure many of these "found" roses originated with them. Kim http://www.fremontica.com/CNCo/

Here is a link that might be useful: Angel's Camp

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 12:04PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)
    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 12:04PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Angel's Camp (founded 1848) is a Gold Rush town on California Hwy 49 (The "Golden Chain.") Didn't y'all ever read "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County"?? In that area, many Old Roses have been recovered and propagated for preservation and re-introduction to commerce.
Rosarians from Francis Lester to Fred Boutin, to Rusty Rolleri, Lynne Storme, Judy Dean, Bev Vierra, through the Heritage Roses Groups teams have explored those areas.

Most of the roses found in Angel's Camp/Altaville are now growing in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, the Sacramento City Cemetery, or both. Many of those roses are now gone from the gardens and cemeteries where they were collected, so it's good that they DO grow in those other places. I know, for instance that some of the roses collected on HRG Rose Rustles in 2005 are gone now. Others are now in very fragile condition.



"Sawyer Plot Tea"/'Mme. Lombard'
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.40187

This above is thought to be 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam,' and it was found on the grave of a woman named Mary.

This one, from the grave of a WWII veteran, Frank Dorroh, may be 'Mrs. Frank Serpa.'

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 12:34PM
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sadie_pnw

Thanks for the pictures and history, Jeri. Really, you have such a storehouse of memories to share. I really appreciate it. I love Mark Twain, too!

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 3:28PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

There's a world of stories in those old Gold Rush towns. Some known, others likely never to be known. But it's beautiful country, too, and a pleasure to visit for the feel of the past you still find there.

It's Mark Twain country, and it's Bret Harte country.

I love to visit Columbia -- some miles further South, near Sonora. Columbia is a State Historic Park now, so it's beautifully maintained. Just a nice place to spend the day.

The first time I visited, I had drinks in the "What Cheer" Saloon, which is pretty much un-changed since the mid-19th- Century.

There's an RV Park, oh, maybe a half-mile walk from the main part of town, in an old marble quarry. Some day, I want to visit when they're all tarted up for the Christmas Season.

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 3:45PM
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organic_tosca(9/Sunset 14)

Jeri, could you repeat the story of the headstone (near the Empire Mine, I think) marking the grave of a young Welshman, with a rose planted there? It brought tears to my eyes when you posted it before - something about being far from family and friends, but someone cared enough...

Laura

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 7:27PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Some miles North of Empire Mine, Laura, but on Hwy 49, in a town of which almost nothing remains (Other than a bar and two cemeteries).

This is the grave of young Emmanuel Penrose, born in Wales, d. age (I think) 25 years, in 1877. There were mine disasters in that period, in that place. Perhaps young Emmanual died in one of those. We'll never know.

When we first visited Emmanuel's grave, there was a 'Mme. Plantier' of reasonable size planted there. You had to wonder who cared enough for that young man, so far from home, as to plant a rose for him, and hand-water it, until it was established.

'Mme' Plantier' is a rose of great vigor, which is found all over old California, but Emmanuel's rose is gone, now. At least, it was not in evidence in Oct., 2005, when I last stopped by to pay my respects.

But all of the old roses planted in the long-deserted cemeteries were planted FOR someone, who was loved BY someone. And for that reason, if for no other, all of them should be treated with great respect.

In that same old cemetery, there is an exquistely-carved marble stone, with roses you'd swear you could smell, placed there to mark the grave of Ann Pierce, who died there in the 1800's, at the age of 87. I think often about the wonders Ann saw in her life. Her 14-y-o grandson lies next to her there.

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 9:24PM
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altoraMA(5/6 MA)

Thanks for all the information on Angel's Camp everyone.
Jeri, you better hope we never meet because I have about 3,000 questions for you!! It could take weeks!!

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 12:35PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Oh, well, I could talk about California's Lost Roses and the history of the places we find them -- for EVER.

Sometimes, I dream about them . . .

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 3:41PM
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roseseek

So, WHERE is the "Tour Guide", "Book", whatever permutation it takes on? An E-Book, on line, complete with all the information and well illustrated, even by subscription, would be remarkable and, I believe, very well supported. I know I would subscribe. Kim

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 3:57PM
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organic_tosca(9/Sunset 14)

Thank you so much, Jeri! That's a wonderful story, though it's sad that the rose is gone now. It touched me particularly because my father's family was Welsh, and my mother's father was born in Jackson/Ione (or "Jackson, Amador", as he always said), his own father having come out for the gold. Maybe this is part of why I feel such a connection to the Sacramento Historic Cemetery and the Rose Garden.

Laura

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 8:00PM
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altoraMA(5/6 MA)

There is a book called 'California's Rose Heritage' from Journal of the Heritage Rose Foundation (2005 Conference) and then there is the one listed below. I know that 'Mystery Roses Around the World' is available from The Heritage Rose Foundation-I think that's where I got 'California's Rose History'.

Here is a link that might be useful: HRF

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 8:05PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

The truth is, Kim you become possessive about these places.

I only once had to hear a merry tale of how one woman and her husband made a trip through that country, filled a cooler with cuttings, dumped them in favor of cold beer . . . As the story continued, my stomach did flip-flops. I never replied. I couldn't think of anything even reasonably polite to say in response to that.

I think everyone HERE would treat those places with respect, but that's not a universal truth.

I have come to understand why many of the places described in Thomas Christopher's "IN SEARCH OF LOST ROSES" are not where he says they are . . .

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 11:59PM
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roseseek

Totally understandable, Jeri. By "Tour Guide", I'm meaning your guided tour of the found roses, why they're good and how they were named. You don't have to say where the Setzer Noisette came from, only that it honors the Setzer family plot. I understand the pressures to destroy the cemetery roses across the state, even without thoughtless people devastating what's left of the plants as souvenirs. Pull a Thomas Christopher. Write about the roses, the people, the romance, but keep the actual location secret. Most will never know of these roses, much less see what they look like. Your bringing them alive will create demand so the Vintages, Burlingtons, RVR's can sell them, securing their survival. Kim

    Bookmark   April 4, 2012 at 12:07AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Now, THAT I could do. Just need to cut down the work load a little.
:-)

Jeri

    Bookmark   April 4, 2012 at 12:27AM
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