Lady Banks Alba Plena

cocoloo(CA z15)April 7, 2014

Hi...I bought 2 Lady Banks (white) rose bushes at Costco. I planted one of them next to my back porch to climb the pillar. The plant came staked with green plastic ties holding it upright. I planted at a 45 degree angle and it is leaning up against the pillar. Should I untie the branches, or will it grow tied to it's stake and leaning the way it is? Thank you!!

This post was edited by cocoloo on Mon, Apr 7, 14 at 13:42

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jacqueline9CA

A Lady Banks rose will grow no matter what. Just make sure the ties are not tight. What I would do is wait until it starts growing up the pillar, and then untie it from the stakes and tie it to the pillar. Then, after sitting there doing not much for several months or a year, it will eat the pillar and then the porch.

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 1:56PM
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cocoloo(CA z15)

Thank you Jackie. I have been reading about them, I am a little scared of how big it's going to get...but it is the sunniest spot...I might put up an arbor and move it...do you think that would be better?

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 2:23PM
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jacqueline9CA

I would leave it where it gets the most sun - they need that. And, unlike some huge climbing roses, they CAN be kept to smaller sizes successfully. I am just going out to our local Safeway, where they have 20 year old plants of Yellow Lady Banks they keep down to about 2 1/2 feet - really! I will take pics and post them here so that you can see them blooming happily.

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 3:54PM
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cocoloo(CA z15)

Thanks, that is so nice of you! My husband wants to leave it there, too. We have another one that I need to find a spot for, will definitely put it in the sun.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 4:05PM
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roseseek

Cocoloo, "sun" means at least five or six hours worth here in the sunnier California zones. I have double yellow, double white and single yellow. Double white gets full, direct southern sun from about 9:30 AM until about 5 PM. Double yellow gets full sun and lots of reflective heat off the white roof from sun up to sun down. Double yellow gets filtered sun until about 1 PM, then direct sun until sun down. The more sun, the earlier they flower, the shorter the individual flowers last and the faster they stop flowering once the heat becomes sufficient to "tell them" spring is over. Lutescens (single yellow) starts flowering later than the two doubles due to the reduced heat and sun, but it flowers longer because the plant is cooler, so it thinks spring is lasting longer. Right at the beach, where the "heat" never occurs compared to the inland valley, they flower for months every year. Providing "full sun" is not really necessary here in the west. And, yes, you can keep it more contained. It just requires a LOT of pruning or shearing to maintain the size desired. They will tolerate that treatment for many decades, responding by paving themselves with bloom over their surfaces. If you want repeat on a smaller size, pick up Purezza. It flowers with more heat and continues pushing blooms until the heat subsides. Mine here in 91316 has been flowering since November with no indication of slowing down. I know you'll enjoy it. Good luck! Kim

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 4:48PM
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cocoloo(CA z15)

Thank you, Kim. I am going to look for Purezza. I didn't know a thing about Lady Banks when I bought the two plants last week-end, and I think they're really pretty, but wish they bloomed longer...am in a cool microclimate here so maybe they will think it's spring for awhile longer!

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 6:07PM
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jacqueline9CA

Here is a picture of a mature (over 20 years old) white Lady Banks (which was in full bloom 3 weeks ago - now it is just finishing) growing on a metal thing which blocks cars from going into the street at a Safeway parking lot. There are 13 structures such as this one in a row, and each one has 2 Lady Banks roses planted on it - 26 total! My point is not that you should make anything like this, but that this rose can be pruned and controlled to stay the size you want it, unlike some roses which grow huge.

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 8:05PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

About the brief flowering period: the plant is really pretty even when it's not in bloom--a mass of elegant foliage--and watching the buds form and get ready to open is a pleasure.
The largest rose in the world, so I read, is a plant of the double white Lady Banks. Mine is on a 5' x 9' trellis and spills out on all sides. If you want it in the space you describe, be prepared to prune.
Here in hot and sunny Italy I find no rose really wants full sun: even the sun-loving Teas and Chinas are happier with some shade in the hottest hours of the day.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2014 at 11:04PM
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alameda/zone 8

There is a dentist's office in my city - they have several yellow Lady Banksia roses that are old and are pruned into a hedge. They let them flower, then they are pruned immediately afterward into the hedge shape. Its interesting....so I know this rose can be kept in a smaller shape.
Judith

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 12:22AM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Lots of great info here, but I thought I'd chime in to emphasize that pruning is done soon after flowering to ensure good bloom the next year. The timing was mentioned, but Cocoloo, since you haven't grown Lady Banks roses before, I wanted to make sure to underscore the late spring/very early summer pruning period. If you skip a year or leave a few spent flowers when pruning, the little hips sure are cute!

Did I mention that there's pretty much zero disease on my Ladies here in Portland?

I have one Lady in sun and one in partial shade. Kim's reply explains what I've witnessed every year in two corners of my garden.

Carol

P.S. Amazing photo of the Safeway rose, Jackie! Who knew you could trellis a rambler on a metal guard rail?

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 2:10

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:46AM
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roseseek

All the Banksiae are fairly clean here, too. I do see mildew on the double yellow out front. It's due to the water stress it endures. The plant crowns a large stand of golden bamboo and receives tremendous reflected heat from the white styrofoam roof. The bamboo sucks up all the water then transpires it, raising the humidity around the plant. The extra heat helps stress the plant so it frequently mildews. The double white is under the deck at the south-west corner of the property and receives no water other than whatever happens to fall on the deck. It mildews during the worst of the heat. Lutescens never mildews because it receives shade and water from the rose beds planted at its edge. Finding mildew on the Lutea surprised me as I'd never witnessed Banksiaes mildewing before, but extreme water stress can very easily induce even highly resistant plants to mildew, rust and black spot. Kim

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 3:55AM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Cocoloo, I saw those Baksias at Costco and wondered if they might just be Purezza. The blooms are larger than what I see on my White Banksia and very like Purezza which I also grow.

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 9:09AM
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roseseek

Both Home Depot and Lowe's locally have had Purezza, so it isn't impossible Costco may receive it. You can easily check to see which it is. Traditional Banksiae's flowers are usually smaller than a nickel and most often, there are no prickles even on the leaf midribs. Purezza's flowers are often almost the size of a quarter with smaller petals and more of them. Double forms of Banksiae have virtually no sexual parts, just a green pointel in the center of the bloom. Purezza's sexual parts are frequently malformed, but it does have stamen and pollen. Usually its stigma is red and receptive to pollen, though it seems incapable of setting hips. Also, Purezza has small prickles on the leaf midribs. Not enough to rip you, but it can definitely give you a light scratch if you are being aggressive with it. Once you've seen the two, you can very easily distinguish between them on sight. You can't always depend upon the producers labeling them properly. You can still find Fortuniana in commerce as "Banksiae Snowflake". Kim

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 12:23PM
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roseseek

I'd hoped this would be more definitive, but weather and having to uproot and repot Purezza have made the differences less obvious. Purezza is on the left in all shots with Banksiae on the right. Normally, Purezza is much larger a flower and more often, Banksiae doesn't have as obvious stigma pollen receptors. I hope it helps. Kim


    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:16PM
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jacqueline9CA

Kim - is Purezza the one that is supposed to re-bloom?

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:52PM
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roseseek

Yes ma'am. Purezza is a hybrid between Banksiae and the original commercial mini, Peon (Tom Thumb). Banksiae flowers when the weather conditions "tell" it spring is here. If you're in a climate where "spring" lasts for months, it continues pushing flowers until "spring" ends, most often when higher heat begins. If you're in an inland area where "spring" is short, Banksiae flowers for a shorter period. Like many once-flowering roses dependent upon heat and sun levels to trigger flowering, if your weather becomes "spring", then cools for a period, then returns to "spring", Banksiae can "rebloom", though it's actually just an interruption then resumption of the spring flowering period.

Purezza can flower when "spring" arrives, but is more reliable as a summer heat bloomer, particularly as a juvenile plant. Here, where inland valley heat massages the coastal influence, I've had Purezza flower in warmer, sunnier spots almost year round. The larger plant in the upper front terrace which receives full sun from about 10 AM until dusk, can flower any time of the year, and often does. The smaller plant I had to uproot from the ground and repot, the one I harvested the earlier flower from because it was much easier to access, begins flowering later because it receives more shade from the walnut tree out back to prevent the pot from frying. Jeri reports that Purezza went from heat flowering to a more continuous flowering in her garden as it matured. It's all going to be highly weather and maturity dependent, but if you don't live where Banksiae can be relied upon to flower for a long period and if you don't want to deal with an extremely vigorous house eater, Purezza can give you all the charm of Banksiae without the high level of maintenance Banksiae can require to keep in bounds. Something I noticed this morning when photographing those blooms is how much more sweetly scented Purezza is compared to Banksiae double white. Some liken Banksiae's scent to violets. My nose does perceive that stench from it, though it's not sweet to me, but more bitter, skunky, like violet and pansy plants rather than a sweet or spicy floral scent. Purezza has a sweet floral scent to the blooms which I never perceive outdoors, but which expressed itself strongly inside while photographing it.

Lutescens, the single yellow, has that pansy plant stench outdoors, but when I harvest the anthers and pollen for drying, an intense clove scent permeates the room as they dry. Kim

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 2:26PM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Thanks Kim. I went out today and looked closer at my Purezza and White Banksia but i didn't check for thorns. The blooms are quite different and different again from Fortuniana.

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 7:23PM
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roseseek

You're welcome, Pamela. Double white Banksiae often throws REAL prickles, no matter what is written about it. The one in back bites me regularly as I seldom expect to find them when I trim it off the stairs and from between the floor boards of the deck. Purezza hasn't demonstrated anything as evil as these from the double white, just the prickles on the leaf midribs. Kim

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 8:38PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Is there one that is most shade tolerant? I know no rose really wants to live in the shade of an oak. But I would love to keep the lower fence all in roses.

I can see how much one of my FeP is smaller than the other two..... But that might be a good thing. Lol

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 2:04AM
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roseseek

I don't think any of them is more tolerant of shade than the others. All of them will survive until they push themselves up into the sun where they prefer to be. The shadier it is, the less bloom and more mildew you're likely to endure, but all are persistent enough you should give the one you like best a try. Personally, I'd go for one of the single flowered as they require less energy to generate and open than double blooms. Of course, my favorite is Lutescens, the single yellow. If you need cuttings, they're yours. Kim

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 2:47AM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

It gets enough light for persimmons to grow and fruit....

I am going to make a list of possible options for that fence line. Sorry to be obsessing about blocking out the neighbors. It is just that I have spent so many years cleaning up the lot just to "enjoy" them sitting in what seems like a tree fort over looking the garden fighting and yelling all day

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 12:22AM
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roseseek

If there is honestly enough light for persimmons to fruit where you want the rose to flower, Kippy, I would say you aren't limited to "shade tolerant" types for that spot. Kim

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 1:48AM
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jacqueline9CA

Madame Alfred Carriere is VERY shade tolerant, and blooms 11 months of the year here. Should get big enough to block out their tree fort!

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 1:57PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

I was going to suggest Madame, too. She grows rather quickly which might be nice under the circumstances. Carol

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 3:47PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

I hear MAC does not do well here?

This is a view of the sky from the location

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 11:18PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Other rose babies

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 11:19PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

The Persimmon does not seem to mind

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 11:21PM
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roseseek

The two main issues I've run into with MAC in drier inland locations have been a LOT of plant for too little color and chronic mildew. YMMV. Kim

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 11:26PM
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cocoloo(CA z15)

Thank you so much everyone! I had a minor surgery this week and didn't check the forum for a few days...now I just saw 28 posts so am reading through them. I am learning so much!

    Bookmark   April 13, 2014 at 3:49PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Cocoloo, I hope you are healing well and quickly! Carol

    Bookmark   April 14, 2014 at 3:42AM
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