Lady Anne Kidwell hurts my eyes

landpersonApril 27, 2011

She may be the first rose that I have ever shovel pruned in 16 years of growing roses. (Not to say that I haven't killed a few by mistake). I just cannot stand to look at her. How sad is that...... The color is just atrocious. Not even a thought to being subtle....

Sigh....

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jerijen(Zone 10)

One man's ceiling is another man's floor ...

I find LAK delightful in every way. Graceful habit, perfect foliage, continuity of bloom, a soft bloom form, and a color that pleases my eye.

Those "blue-ish" colors were well-loved in earlier times. They've gone out of fashion, but I still prefer them to the more modern reds.
By contrast, I've never yet found an ORANGE rose that did not eventually offend me.

When I was a pre-teenager, I had a pretty sun dress that was the precise same color as LAK, and I think of it every time I look at the rose. Cerise. :-)
Not a modern color, but one I love.

Jeri
In Coastal Ventura County, SoCal

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 5:45PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I love that color, sort of a very deep fuschia. I also favor the blue reds. I had my colors done and I have to go blue vs orange. I can't wear yellow or orange, they make me look jaundiced. So maybe that has an effect on what colors I like in flowers. The form is beautiful as well.

Although I would not put her next to Crepescule...that is a clash! A nice pure white rose or a lighter pink would look fabulous. With a blue clematis or other flower.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 7:07PM
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landperson

Jeri you hit the nail right on the head. I don't like reds that go to blue. I love the reds that go to brown....anything but blue. And, having considered this rose a bit more, I think what I am going to do is plant something near her that simply makes her less blatant in her spot. She will be delicious as an accent to .... well I don't quite know what....but I'll find it. Last year I had her planted under a Crepuscule, and the slight bit of shade modulated her colors a bit. Today when she daunted me so she is in a new place which is in full sun and not softened by anything else. I'll keep her; I'll make her work. What do you bet by next year she'll be one of my favs....:-))))

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 7:18PM
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landperson

Interesting. When I bought this rose I was taken by the form, but in retrospect I think it tends to look shabby. Just to check myself, I just went to HelpMeFind and looked at the photos and there is not one that actually looks good. They all look like they have gone by....

(and, by the way, my thread title is incorrect: it's Lady Ann Kidwell -- no e on Ann.)

Here is a link that might be useful: pictures of Lady Ann Kidwell

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 7:20PM
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sherryocala

I'm with you, Jeri. I prefer blue-red to orange-red. I thought her blooms were excellent, but she has become sickly in my garden, and I'm not sure if I've seen a flower this year. Hardly any growth or leaves either. I really think she's on her way out. Believe it or not, I was actually considering putting an Encore azalea there. She's basically a non-rose anyway, so what's the difference? At least the azalea has leaves...unless my soil isn't acid enough for it. Poor choices. That's all I've got.

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 7:31PM
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rosefolly

Well, I do like blue reds but I don't at all like neon reds, and that looks very neon to me. It reminds me of the color of the rose Peter Mayle, a rose I took out of my garden because it looked too modern for my taste.
Rosefolly

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 7:33PM
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sherryocala

"there is not one that actually looks good."

Some flowers just do not get justice in photos. My Mme Antoine Rebe is very much like LAK but only semi-double. She probably has an even more unorthodox flower form than LAK, and I can't photograph her to save my life. I hold up the flower and don't even bother to look through the viewfinder. Nah, that's not gonna look good. BUT her flowers are so winsome on the bush. They're fluttery and fun AND RED. LAK kind of fits into that category for me. I can only say that her first blooms were a surprise and absolutely exhilarating to me. They may not be everyone's cup of tea, but in person I found them to be wonderful. The camera's eye may have a better brain than it used to, but it still doesn't have a heart. What a pity that such cheeriness can't be captured except in the heart of some beholders.

Maybe mine just needs more food...or something.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 8:09PM
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rosefolly

You are not obligated to keep a rose you don't like, even if it is healthy in your garden. If you are unwilling to shovel-prune, perhaps you can give it away to another rose-lover in you area (but not to me). Surely someone would be made very happy by having this rose.

Rosefolly

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 8:22PM
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roseseek

Give it to someone else for their garden, Susan. They NEVER look better than they do when someone else has your hand-me-downs. If I had a nickle for every rose I've admired in friends' and relatives' gardens only to be told, "Well, YOU gave it to me!", I'd be sitting pretty! LOL! Once she's gracing a different garden, you'll probably be drawn to her and wonder why you let her go! Kim

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 8:31PM
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landperson

I'll put her in my tenant's garden. Then when I am sorry I've gotten rid of her....well I won't really have and both of us will win....:-))))

Susan

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 9:06PM
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jo_pyeweed(z9 SF Bay Area)

LAK draws the most "What is that?" question from visitors to my garden. They seem quite disconcerted when I answer "A rose" :-)

I like LAK for the reasons that Jeri mentions, plus I love the quilled flowers. I have her in a 20 gallon pot and I move her to another spot whenever something next to her begins to flower and clash with her. I haven't found the colors that work with her yet, but I do hope to find her a permanent spot one day.

Cheers,
Jo

    Bookmark   April 27, 2011 at 9:13PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

So many of the Teas have pale flowers--as well as Noisettes and Hybrid Musks--I'm grateful for warm climate roses that are deeply colored. And I don't mind red that goes to blue at all; after all, I live with a vast tribe of Gallicas, Centifolias, Mosses, etc, and they're almost all cool pinks or reds that blue as they age. 'Lady Ann Kidwell' is just fine with me. And I like 'Mme. Antoine Rebe' very well, too.
N.B. I'd have to see them side by side to know for sure, but I wouldn't take it for granted that LAK and 'Crepuscule' would clash. But then I like a bit of gaudiness in the garden: one of my all time favorite color schemes--unplanned--was when I had 'Pat Austin', silver artemisia, and flaming field poppies all growing together.
Melissa

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 1:14AM
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landperson

Oh boy, Melissa I'm so glad you chimed in here, for two points in particular. First of all, obviously I was wrong that I don't like reds that go to blue because I also have lots of old reds which do just that; so....I don't know what it is about Lady Ann that bothers my eye, and eventually I will figure it out. Also, thank you for defending/seconding at least the possibility of my having put LAK with Crepuscule, because I think she looked quite good in that situation. I only moved her because she didn't have enough room where she was.

Having thought about this situation more and more overnight, I think that I will come to love LAK again when I have softened her colors with something else.

Many years ago I planted a Radway Sunrise that was glorious with a bit of dappled shade provided by a fruitless mulberry tree. When the mulberry came down the colors of RS were just too bold, and Gregg Lowery suggested that instead of trying to move RS I just plant something close that would muffle her a bit. So I planted Ghislaine de Feligondes right next to her and....no surprise, it worked very well.
So, I'm now going to look for something that will tie and blend LAK with a Royal Sunset that will soon bloom not very far behind her on a fence.....I'm thinking a small flowered pale creamy yellow, maybe a Hybrid Musk....We will see what we will see....

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 11:09AM
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harmonyp

Landperson - I think she's gorgeous!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 12:13PM
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jimofshermanoaks(9/21SoCal)

If you don't care for the color of LAK, you probably won't like Red Sweetheart, or Pasadena Tournament, which probably come from the same crossings of Mlle Cecile Brunner with X. What I like about LAK is that it has the longest most elegant buds of any rose of its day except High Noon and Lowell Thomas. I also like the fact that it can grow to the size of a garage wall or be kept to a lower level of growth without undue damage to the plant. I have had mine six by six and it is currently five by three, but still produces hundreds of blooms per flush although it is closer to continuous than many roses advertised as such. JimD

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 12:14PM
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landperson

Well, I hate being so waffleminded, but....After I posted about putting something else in to soften her I went back outside and looked some more. I've got Excellenz von Schubert in my collection of bands to be planeted and considered putting him in the area. And then I went and picked one very perfect bud of LAK. And then....I just do not know what to do. Her buds and blooms ARE beautiful. She does not, however, work colorwise in my yard. I think later today I will shovel her out and put her in a big pot and....think about her for a while.

Thanks as usual for humoring me.

Susan

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 12:34PM
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landperson

Oh piffle....:-))))
She IS gorgeous.
The problem here is ME....

Where are you harmonyp?
Do you want her? If you are close enough you can come and get her and put me out of my misery....

Susan

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 12:51PM
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harmonyp

About 30 miles west of Stockton. Where are you?! Funny how each of us sees things so differently. I've heard that people love Blueberry Hill. Mine is from Weeks, big, healthy, and always covered with blooms. But I'm a pedal person - the more the better, and like high centers. I look at her with those gold stamens and to me, she just doesn't look like a rose. I'm hoping that over time she'll start appealing more to me. And mine doesn't seem to have a bit of fragrance. Sigh.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 2:05PM
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roseseek

harmonyp, if you take her, be sure to root one so when Susan visits you and admires it, you can send it home with her! LOL! Kim

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 2:09PM
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landperson

Well, phooey, Stockton is probably too far for you to want to come. I'm in Santa Rosa -- 50 miles north of SF -- but DO let me know if I'm wrong.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 4:33PM
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harmonyp

Well - you definitely must find her a good home then. Way too lovely to shovel prune. Completely understand all our tastes are different. Someone will love her very much!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 4:40PM
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seil zone 6b MI

I love the color! And polys in general. Hmmm...I may need to find this one for myself!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 7:37PM
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landperson

I got mine from Vintage Gardens, so she's obviously on her own roots.

And, I see why I spelled Anne with an "e".
Vintage does; HelpMeFind doesn't.

Sigh....

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: Source for Lady Anne Kidwell

    Bookmark   April 28, 2011 at 10:21PM
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roseseek

Quite a few years ago, a young man contacted me. He is the grand son of Edward Marsh, who introduced Lady Ann Kidwell through his nursery, Marsh's Nursery, in Pasadena, CA. Mr. Marsh emigrated to the US and Ann Kidwell was his sponsor for citizenship. He named the rose in her honor. He also had the distinction of introducing Ralph Moore's Cl. Yellow Sweetheart, which jiminshermanoaks and I had the honor of "rediscovering" not far from where his nursery was. Mr. Marsh also introduced a number of Alfred Kreb's roses, the creator of White Wings, a beautiful white, single HT and Mr. Moore's Dancing Doll. Kim

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 1:19AM
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kstrong(10 So Cal)

Kim, now that you've at least posted that history on HMF, go sit yourself down and write that BOOK.

You have it in you. And you obviously love your subject, which makes for great books (almost always).

Kathy

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 10:29AM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

Susan, somehow I think that 'Lady Ann Kidwell' has a place in your future, even if you don't know exactly what that place is. Context is all with flowers: a color will be glorious together with one group of plants and sickeningly jarring with others. Yesterday I was gazing amazed at a fiery light orange iris that I had never seen before (sometimes I think strange plants pack their suitcases and move into my garden at midnight), growing right beside the cool old rose pink of 'Bourbon Queen'. Ouch. But just above it is 'Austrian Copper', with a few field poppies scattered about to boot, and putting the iris close to it, what could be a finer, more blazing arrangement? And I have some silver artemisias to place this fall, too! So I'll shift the iris from its current uncomfortable place into the neighborhood of 'Austrian Copper' and all will be well; in fact, it will be magnificent.
By the way, how about 'Thisbe' for your tempering intermediate rose? If you want to pursue that plan.
harmonyp, I don't know if this will help you, but for a long time I had trouble really liking Rugosas, even while admitting all their virtues, including their undeniable beauty. It was when I stopped thinking of them as roses and mentally recatalogued them as flowering shrubs that they fell into place and I could appreciate and enjoy them. Perhaps you need to reclassify 'Blueberry Hill'.
Melissa
P.S. Kim, I think it might be a good book, too.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 2:44AM
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landperson

Thisbe would be just perfect !!!!

And, yesterday afternoon the Royal Sunset bloomed and it's equally vibrant coloring has already done a lot to make LAK look better. Nothing like a little competition for "brassiest broad" to liven it all up. Both are smashing but somehow they each tone the other one down....:-))))

Aren't roses wonderful the way they play well with others????

Susan

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 10:10AM
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roseseek

You know, probably one reason why your cast-offs look so good after you give them away is your eyes have time to adjust, learn that the color once felt offensive, actually is just another "spice" to the confection of the garden. I'm telling you, it never fails! Either the new micro climate is one which is more favorable to the thing so it finally performs and grabs you, or its surroundings aren't as "jarring" as initially felt.

As for the book, thank you. I compiled a collection of articles I'd written back in 1997, printed them and sold them at two presentations I'd done in a weekend for The San Jose Heritage and The Homestead Acre to support their gardens. Peter Schneider advertised it in his American Rose Rambler, which is an EXCELLENT newsletter, BTW, and another hundred or so sold. Perhaps I need to dig out those original hundred or so pages, dust them off and add new articles to it? Thanks. Kim

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 11:37AM
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