Is Cramoisi Superior fragrant?

jacqueline9CAApril 16, 2014

I have 3 bushes of what I always thought was CS. This year, like all of our roses, it is outdoing itself blooming. I was taking pictures of it, and sniffed a bloom, even though I thought I knew that china roses were not fragrant. WOW! Really strong sort of fruity scent - not the typical old rose one, but very nice.

So, am I crazy or is CS very fragrant, or is this some other rose (although I can't believe it isn't a china)?

Here are some pics of the bush and the blooms.

Jackie

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jacqueline9CA

Here is a blom showing the white markings which are on many of them:

    Bookmark   April 16, 2014 at 5:48PM
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jacqueline9CA

Last one -

    Bookmark   April 16, 2014 at 5:49PM
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catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14

Louis Phillipe is very fragrant to my nose -- and per Vintage often sold for Cramoisi (though in my yard it's a bit pinker than Cramoisi, most of the time anyway).

I can't get much scent at all from Cramoisi -- maybe the tiniest whiff (and this only from a clone that may be the climber -- undetermined as yet -- from my daughter's backyard in San Francisco -- other Cramoisis, of the shrub form, have been essentially scentless to me).

    Bookmark   April 16, 2014 at 8:57PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I wonder if you have what Vintage Gardens called 'Louis Philippe d'Angers'. I have a really hard time telling LP and CS apart, but the stripes on yours reminded me of the one I mentioned.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinas at Vintage Gardens

    Bookmark   April 16, 2014 at 9:16PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

They look like either Cramoisi or LP...but which one? Louis supposedly has more white in the center (like yours) and, I believe, is reputed to have a stronger fruity fragrance. My nose isn't very helpful with either variety. I also believe that Louis' color can be slightly more pink (which would be consistent with Catspa's experience). With all that said, I hope my life never depends on distinguishing between the two. I'm guessing you have LP, but maybe Jeri can say? Carol

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 1:59AM
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jacqueline9CA

Thanks so much! I looked at your link, and mine does indeed look just like the Vintage Louis Philippe d"Angers, and it certainly has a strong scent which could be cherry.

On HMF, I did not see any with exactly the white markings mine have right now - all of the blooms have them. I took one apart, and every petal was striped with white. I realize however, that these old roses change their looks depending on the weather sometimes. So, I will call it Louis Philippe from now on. My FIL planted it, we think, in the 1970s, and he always bought roses from Roses of Yesterday & Tomorrow.

Jackie

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 2:25PM
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sadie_pnw

What I grew as 'Cramoisi Superieur' in my yard in north Alabama was very fragrant and also had white striping, Jackie. I think my source was probably Countryside Roses in Pass Christian, Mississippi. 'Louis Philippe' and 'Cramoisi' I think are hard to tell apart, if they are even distinguishable at all. I've heard LP is smaller, but I am not sure that is true. I love the fragrance on Cramoisi; to me it smelled fruity too.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 5:52PM
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JoshTx(8a)

Ditto for my Cramoisi Supeurieur. It has the same color, shading, and fragrance as yours. Mine was from Antique Rose Emporium.

Josh

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 6:54PM
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PortlandMysteryRose(8)

Like I said, I'm glad my life doesn't depend on an accurate ID! :-) Carol

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 7:44PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

The differences between CS and LP have been discussed here a few times. In particular, I remember what Malcolm Manners had to say in the thread linked below.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Louis Philippe v Cracker Red

    Bookmark   April 17, 2014 at 10:34PM
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Molineux(6b)

Being asked to identify either Cramoisi Superieur or Louis Philippe is one of those questions that make even experienced rosarians throw their hands up in frustration. Nobody can seem to agree on the identifying marks. All I know is the rose that I bought as Cramoisi Superieur from COUNTRYSIDE ROSES, which grows in my mother's zone 7b garden, has always been very fragrant. And I'm not just medium scented either, but very strongly scented of sweet pea blossom and ripe cherries. Beautiful blooms, delicious fragrance, truly disease resistant foliage, rapid repeat bloom, insignificant thorns, vigorous as all get out, grows exceptionally well on its own roots, AND roots easily. IMHO the best red rose ever hybridized and available for the home gardener. Would be just about perfect if only it were more winter hardy.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 1:25PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Like Carol, I wouldn't like to have my life depend upon distinguishing between Louis Philippe and Cramoisi Superieur. As if it wasn't hard enough to start with, both seem to change with weather conditions.

If it weren't complicated enough, try adding some of the Found Red Chinas to the line of roses to I.D. and it becomes impossible.

Just look at these, from my own coastal SOCAL garden:

Louis Philippe:
http://s2.photobucket.com/user/JeriJennings/media/LOU-PHIL6-22SML4GC_zpsfac8baab.jpg.html

Cramoisi Superieur:
http://s2.photobucket.com/user/JeriJennings/media/CRAMOISI-SUP2-3-13SML_zpsc0ff6c66.jpg.html

"Elisabeth's China" (From the Sacramento City Cemetery, but photographed here):
http://s2.photobucket.com/user/JeriJennings/media/ELISABETHSCH1-27-13SML4GC_zps9df59136.jpg.html
http://s2.photobucket.com/user/JeriJennings/media/ELISCHINA11-16-13_zps4ad177ed.jpg.html

Confusing, much?

(JERI)

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 2:07PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Oh, and as for fragrance -- I don't get a lot from L.P., but Cramoisi is "fruity" to me ... and "Elisabeth's China" is drop-dead intensely fruit-scented.

To ME.
Everyone's sniffer is a bit different, so I can only say what EYE smell.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 2:09PM
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vmr423

Er- excuse me- is this the correct thread for bringing up questions about how to distinguish 'White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth' which supposedly is also all over the Southeast U.S.?

What? No, no- don't smack me! I didn't mean any harm...

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 7:24PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Just step forward, boldly, and declare your opinion.

I grow it, and I refuse to take a position. It's a really nice red China Rose.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 8:50PM
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Malcolm1

Planted several 2 years ago along with LaMarque.The Cramoisi has trouble with blooms opening but still fragrant .LaMarque prolific bloomer but not as fragrant.Keeping my fingers crossed the blooms will look better the older it gets.Also the canes and leaves are gorgeous.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2014 at 11:45AM
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Malcolm1

Planted several 2 years ago along with LaMarque.The Cramoisi has trouble with blooms opening but still fragrant .LaMarque prolific bloomer but not as fragrant.Keeping my fingers crossed the blooms will look better the older it gets.Also the canes and leaves are gorgeous.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2014 at 11:47AM
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