Climbing Rose For Gazebo

Sow_what? Southern California InlandMay 8, 2014

I'm serving as a volunteer at a children's rehabilitation hospital, where I'm designing a garden for special events, and where families can spend time visiting their hospitalized little ones. The garden I'm designing overlooks a charming old gazebo that's currently used as a parking spot for dumpsters and trash cans -- not the loveliest of views. The gazebo is currently scheduled to be torn down, but I've asked the hospital to salvage it. I can use plantings to screen the large dumpster (not shown in the photo below) and the trash cans, and I'd love to blanket the gazebo in beautiful roses. Summers here are hot and dry, but the grounds are well irrigated, and I'll make sure the soil is adequately amended. The gazebo gets sun through much of the day, but large trees in the surrounding areas seem to take the edge of the heat; typically in the 90's throughout summer. Any help selecting a rose will be tremendously appreciated.

jannike

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dmny(z7 NY)

Zephirine Drouhin. Child friendly thornless bourbon climber.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 9:21AM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Are the slats on the Gazebo in good enough condition for a heavy rose to climb on?

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 10:10AM
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annesfbay(9b Sunset 15)

Renae is another thornless climber that blooms repeatedly. It can get quite large from what I understand. I have two on either side of an arbor that I planted in the fall. The canes are very flexible.

Anne

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 10:37AM
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porkpal zone 9 Tx

How about Peggy Martin?

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 3:37PM
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lagomorphmom(z10Coastal and z8Mtn CA)

My understanding is Zeffy is a mildew magnet in SoCalif, can anybody confirm?

Kim, what about Annie Laurie McDowell???

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie Laurie McDowell

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 3:46PM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Dmny and Anne, thank you so much -- those are both great suggestions. The colors are good on both, and I like that they have the potential to get big. Do you know how many will be needed for a large gazebo (maybe 20' diameter)? Do these bloom and repeat well, and are they likely to perform in a hot, dry climate?

Kippy, the posts are in pretty good shape, but the slats will need some work.

This is a maintenance area that guests and patients don't access, but the maintenance staff will be carting the dumpster and trash cans in and out, so thornless or few prickles is not a bad idea for them, and for the volunteers who will be training the rose. This gazebo is a big part of the view from the new garden, so "picturesque" and "blooming machine" are key words in my quest. All other feedback and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

jannike

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 3:57PM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Oops -- I see that several more suggestions came in while I was writing my post. I have to run, but will read those and respond when I get in tonight.

Thanks everyone!

jannike

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 4:02PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Burling has bands of Renae. If you look on HMF there are lots if photos of her as a big girl :). Mine is a baby still but I am using mine on an arbor

Skip ZD if she is anything like the ones I see here, at the end of the season they look horrid in their pots and are smaller than when put out in the start of the season

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 4:14PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Zephie is awful in So Cal. She's better in colder climates.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:50PM
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annesfbay(9b Sunset 15)

From what I understand, Renae blooms a lot, gets quite large and was growing with wild abandon in Visalia, CA at Ralph Moore's old nursery--he bred it. More info on Help Me Find including pix of it covering a pergola at the Ralph Moore Memorial Garden in Visalia.

Good luck with your choice!

Anne

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 1:06AM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Porkpal, thank you. Peggy Martin seems like a good possibility too.

Hoobv, Kippy, and Lagomorphmom, thanks for the heads up about Zeffy's PM in So Ca. Enough negative comments from people whose opinions I respect to rule that rose out.

Kippy, thanks -- I did see Renae at Burlings -- yet another reason to consider this rose. Also Renae's back story -- sad, but fitting.

Anne, thanks for the additional information.

Annie Laurie McDowell (seedling of Renae), and Peggy Martin seem like good suggestions as well. Can anyone comment pros/cons between these three roses: Renae, Annie Laurie Mc Dowell, Peggy Martin. Smothered in roses much of the time, heat tolerant, fairly easy care, and disease free are the operative points.

Also, should I consider Crepuscule or Madame Alfred Carriére? I don't want nearly-white on white in this setting, but if gazebo has to be painted . . .

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 6:32AM
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lagomorphmom(z10Coastal and z8Mtn CA)

MAC will be a mildew magnet as well.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 10:45AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Absolutely YES to Renae.

Peggy Martin only if your conditions are not too alkaline. Annie Laurie McDowell certainly.

Here at the coast, Crepuscule refuses to grow or bloom, and Mme. Alfred Carriere CAN mildew annoyingly. If you are further inland, that might not be a problem. But it sure was for me.

Jeri

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 6:58PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

If that was my dumpster hiding gazebo, I would remove all of the day lilies and the short hedges and replace with the SoCal fav rose....Iceberg. If you wanted a pop of color, widen the bed removing some of that lawn and add some Brilliant Pink Icebergs. You could still add Renae to climb the posts and even if she gets bare knees, you will never notice the the whites and brighter pinks below.

If you like that idea, I can try and remember to take a photo of our south facing Brilliant Pink Icebergs with our Renae so you can see the color combo.

As much as I want an Annie Laurie McDowell, they are very much in demand but maybe not the fastest to cover that gazebo from what other people have posted.....guess I better make sure I am still on the list for one!

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 9:18PM
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roseseek

Renae and Annie Laurie McDowell are perfect alternatives for that gazebo. No prickles, continuous bloom, excellent health, excellent scent and beautiful. What's not to like? Depending upon how fully you wish to cover the structure, you COULD alternate between the two varieties. The one downside of Renae for the top of the structure is she does set hips. Annie Laurie McDowell does not. In all the years I have grown the rose, I have found ONE hip on it. I dead head the large plant pictured on HMF with a hose. I just blast out the plant with a strong stream of water and it knocks off all the spent blooms, removing the debris (fallen foliage, fallen flower petals, spider webs, etc.) from the plant, hydrating it and leaving it refreshed. Renae would very likely need dead heading, cutting off the hips. She would rebloom without removing the hips, but leaving them on might result in a maintenance issue on the walking surfaces as well as draw vermin to eat them. For lower elevations where you can reach them easily, that's not an issue. For a high expanse, even with long reach pruners (which I have and use regularly) it is a pain. Kim

    Bookmark   May 10, 2014 at 12:09AM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

I apologize for the long absence. Work hours have been beyond insane -- I'm so ready for a day off!!!

Jeri, thanks so much for your help. I typically amend, but since native soil in this area tends to be alkaline, it seems that Renae and Annie Laurie McDowell will be better choices.

Kippy, Iceberg is a nearly year-round bloom machine in this area, and is seen everywhere for that reason. I'm not familiar with Brilliant Pink Iceberg, and would love to see your picture. The bed circling the gazebo is far outside the territory the hospital has asked me to design, but your suggestion would create a romantic image from the garden I'm working on. Icebergs are super affordable and easy care here, so maybe they'll be open to a change, especially since we'll already be adding the climbing rose(s).

If Annie Laurie McDowell will be slow to cover the gazebo, will Renae be faster? And it sounds as if Annie is hard to get?

Kim, great advice; thank you so much! You've described one of my favorite pruning methods, since I can't climb ladders -- love your pictures on HMF! Problem is, now that I've taken a closer look at the pictures, I want an Annie for the in-progress rose garden at Humpty Dumpty House as well! It's hard to believe such a lovely rose can have so many desirable qualities. And it sounds like Renae might end up being a pain since gardening volunteers (who go beyond what the the maintenance crew do) will have a tough time deadheading on top of the gazebo.

So here are the remaining issues:

1. Is it possible to get Annie Laurie MacDowell? I keep hearing about "waiting lists".

2. How bad will it be to leave the hips on Renae, at least on top of the arbor? I guess I always believed that the hips would be eaten by birds. I don't think a children's hospital will be thrilled to be attracting vermin.

Thanks so much for all the help. I continue to be amazed by the generosity on this forum.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2014 at 5:18PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Sow. I hope some one posts the wonderful photo of white and pink icebergs together at the Huntington. The pink is a bit taller in my garden and blooms non stop too

    Bookmark   May 13, 2014 at 5:58PM
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roseseek

You're welcome, thank you! Renae can also be slow to climb as an own root plant, but both she and Annie Laurie McDowell WILL climb, particularly if you prevent them from flowering. Yes, Annie is in high demand, she's a great rose and has been hard to get due to a lack of propagation material. I have rectified that. Heirloom, Burlington, Long Ago Roses, Angel Gardens and Dr. Manners have all received material between last fall and two weeks ago. Plants should be forthcoming very shortly. Heirloom, from a previous post on another thread, stated they are growing it for the 2015 season. Burlington and Long Ago will have it before then. Depending upon how quickly Angel Gardens can root them, they may have them sooner than 2015. Dr. Manners is budding it to Fortuniana to test it in the FSC garden. Kim

    Bookmark   May 13, 2014 at 7:31PM
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Sow_what? Southern California Inland

Kippy, I'd like to see the picture from the Huntington, but would love to see yours as well, whenever it's convenient.

Kim -- Annie Laurie McDowell is your rose??? I feel so fortunate for all the detailed information you've shared! Thanks for so graciously helping me and others on the forum who are trying to learn about roses. I'm definitely interested in Annie Laurie McDowell for the Children's Hospital, and I'd also like one for Humpty Dumpty House. I'm very happy with Heirloom Roses, but am hoping to get a band or cuttings before 2015 if possible. Burling says her waiting list is very long, and didn't give me a date when I might expect to get bands. Assuming the hospital agrees with this, I'm feeling that if the rose is worth having, it's worth waiting for, and will try to find other ways to camouflage the dumpster and trash cans in the meantime. For a 20' diameter gazebo that I'd like draped but not completely smothered, how many Annie's do you suggest?

A big "thank you" to everyone who helped with this project. You're all bringing beauty and joy into lives that have been torn with adversity, and I'm grateful for your help in bringing this garden to reality.

jannike

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 4:00AM
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roseseek

Hi Jannike, you're welcome! Yes ma'am, Annie is a seedling I raised way back "in the mists of time"! I think your hospital project is a lovely one to take on. Eventually, one should take care of the twenty foot span, but I'm sure you want it covered faster. I would suggest two, to three of them. Own root climbers take their time, unless you're looking at once flowering types which put far more energy in to growing than flowering. The more heavily the plant flowers, the slower it grows, generally. Some flower more as smaller plants, while others grow instead of flowering. Annie and Renae are the former types, so you can cover the space faster with one or two more plants, but one will eventually take care of it for you.

I would consider the twenty foot span as three, six foot spaces, then plant one plant in the center of each one. That leaves only six feet for each to provide coverage and color for initially. If you'd prefer fewer, divide it in half (two, ten foot sections) and plant one in the middle of each, spreading out their growth to cover the five feet on each side of the plant. If you select Renae for that spot instead, I would still suggest the same treatment.

If you choose a budded plant of some other climber, I would suggest only one, planted in the center of the span, as budded plants usually push growth much faster than many own root types. Not all, but most, particularly climbing types. I do think the lack of prickles will be a lovely trait for that situation. The lack of prickles is why I planted Annie Laurie McDowell where I did in the garden pictured on Help Me Find. It's right inside the gate entering the rear yard where people will come into personal contact with the plant. It is where the gentleman sits to smoke his occasional cigar while tossing the toys for the dog, so not biting is a great thing. And, she flowers virtually all the time and smells wonderfully. Ironically, she's also the only rose the dog gnaws on in the entire back yard. Eight other climbers on the walls and he gnaws Annie and the lilac.

You should probably check with Burling about her timing with the plants to see what will work best with the hospital's timing. Good luck! Kim

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 10:13AM
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