Not Eglantyne - what is it?

nippstress - zone 5 NebraskaMay 31, 2014

OK - I waited a good 5 years for this plant to grow up from a teensy weensy band. It has survived reasonably well in less than ideal conditions, but it only just bloomed this last year. Turns out it isn't Eglantyne at all, since there isn't the vaguest hint of pink in the blooms at any time of year. (The pinkish bloom in the background is Heaven on Earth, not this bush) It's in part shade and this was taken in cool June temperatures, so I'm reasonably sure this is the real color.

My guess would be one of the white Austins, and it has that old rose smell that many of the Austins have, but not a strong fragrance to my nose. I realize it's hard to distinguish between them, but any opinions about which white Austin this might be? It's got some of the yellowish tints of Teasing Georgia, but that rose happens to be planted just behind this one and the blooms are substantially different side by side. Besides, there's no way Teasing Georgia could ever be a teensy rose at any age - she's a monster for me. Even at 5 years old, this bush of question is barely knee-high.

Any other guesses?

Cynthia

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muscovyduckling(Melbourne, Australia)

Could it be Tranquility? Or even Glamis Castle? Just wild guesses here.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2014 at 6:40AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Not Glamis, that doesn't have any yellow in it. Crocus Rose?

    Bookmark   May 31, 2014 at 7:01AM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Eglantyne has a sport. I found it on mine years ago and called it Wilde Rose. That is what this looks like. It's not in commerce. It could be that the cutting was taken from a sporting branch.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2014 at 8:11AM
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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

How cool - an uncommon sport of Eglantyne that isn't even marketed? If that's the case, I'd be totally thrilled. Does your sport have the supposedly intense fragrance of Eglantyne still? This rose has a nice fragrance as I recall, but nothing of the toe-curling wonderfulness of Sharifa Asma or even William Shakespeare 2000 for me. If that's what this is, you've solved two rose mysteries for me, Mendocino Rose, in totally intriguing ways!

I don't think this is Crocus Rose, though the color is right I agree. That is blooming right now for me, and the shape is much higher in the center without that open peony look that this one has. Thanks for the idea anyway, as for the suggestions of Tranquility and Glamis Castle. Tranquility has that blush pink to it that I'm missing in this Not Eglantyne, and Glamis Castle has pointier petals as well as a purer white bloom. I don't have Winchester Cathedral, but the same pure white seems to apply to that one too.

If you happen to have a photo of your Wilde Rose, I'd love to see it to see if that's the case. I'll happily carry on your chosen name for this one, and we'll see if it's a stable sport if that's the case for my rose.

Cynthia

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 12:49AM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

No it doesn't have a great fragrance, just a nice one. When I found the sport I talked to a man in Australia who had it on his Eglantyne. He had actually contacted Austin roses to see if they were interested. They weren't. I have two plants raised from cuttings that have remained stable. I'd be so pleased if you labeled yours with the name I gave it. I don't have a photo right now. There's one somewhere on an external hard drive. The plant is between flushes. I will try to remember and post one when I can.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 8:51AM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

English Garden perhaps? The last time I saw it, it was much closer to the color of your bloom than apricot and it is alphabetically right next to Eglantyne in the Austin section at Heirloom. If there was a mistake made, I could see that being the explanation. English Garden is also said to be a wimpy grower which could explain why it took so long to bloom and why it hasn't really taken off in all this time.

Jay

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 3:34PM
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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

Jay - thanks for the additional prospect. I checked hmf and the color is definitely in the right camp, but it seems that English Garden has notably pointed petals in the center while these have a distinct notch in the middle, at least in the outer petals. You are absolutely right about the alphabetical error as well as this plant being from Heirloom (it was a very small band from the "old days" at Heirloom that are fortunately very much improved).

Mendocino rose, I looked up Eglantyne again and the petals do seem right for that rose shape, and the "nice" fragrance is a good match too. I'd be honored to pass on your chosen name, and I'll pass on a photo one of these days with its tag if I can catch it blooming this year. I guess I'm not surprised that Austin Roses wouldn't be interested in the sport if they didn't create it, since they seem to be pretty inward looking as a company. Still, if no one is selling it, there's no restrictions on naming it or sharing cuttings I presume.

Cynthia

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 6:22PM
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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

All right, the saga and mystery deepens. After this discussion, I went out to check on Wilde Rose (aka Not Eglantyne) this spring as things were starting to bloom. What I found, and I had to double check it many times, was the picture below. What on earth? Normally, when I see a dark red rose replacing any other rose, I'd assume it was Dr. Huey. However this rose, and everything else in this bed, is an own root rose. I've never planted grafted roses in this bed, since it's my zone 4 pocket and even hardy own root shrub roses have to be tough puppies to survive here. In fact, when this rose arrived from the "old" Heirloom, in the days when bands were small (drastically improved now), this band was so small that any graft would have swamped the whole bush. It took 5 years just to grow to blooming size.

So, any idea what's going on? My other thought was a sucker from a nearby rose, but the only two roses in the bed that are that color are Hope for Humanity and Ramblin' Red. Both are blooming now and a much redder red than this one, that has a distinctly purple cast (not as apparent in the photo). Besides, this rose I remember had surviving cane from last year, like many of my Austins, so whatever canes there are were the ones that bloomed with the white flowers you see above.

It's a puzzle, and I'd love any help. It's a dark enough purple with enough petals to be plausibly another Austin sport, but the thought that one plant could be one white Austin sport one year and an entirely different dark red/purple sport next year isn't remotely plausible. It's a nice rose and all, but I was really looking forward to being one of the only other growers of Wilde rose.

Thoroughly confused

Cynthia

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 4:19PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

That is very pretty and does not look like the doc at all to me.

Wonder if you have a seedling there? Or if there was some bit of trimming from some where that decided to root?

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 5:06PM
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seil zone 6b MI

The color looks too bright and too many petals to be the Doctor. You really do have a mystery there!

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 9:27PM
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vmr423

I suspect a Red Dye #40 spill nearby.

I am curious about the light-colored bud in the bottom left corner, though. Is that the same plant?

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 6:28PM
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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

I thought the same thing too, vmr423, so I went back out and checked after I saw the photo enlarged. Turns out it was a draping branch of Teasing Georgia from a foot or two behind, which was lying on the ground with the uncharacteristic rain we've had. The seedling or trimming idea is the most plausible I guess, but you'd think it would look more like something else in the same bed then. Besides, I just KNOW it was this set of cane that I've been watching for 5 years and that had the white blooms above last year.

Maybe it's aliens. Though why they'd pick on Not Eglantyne our of all of my roses would be an equal puzzle. Ah well, at least it's a pretty rose.

Cynthia

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 8:24PM
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vmr423

A trimming should look the same, but a seedling could look quite different, no?

There are some camellias that are fairly unstable, and will look quite different from year to year, or they'll often have flowers of different colors and/or shapes at the same time.

Roses don't seem to do this much- the only rose I can think of that does is 'Fernande Krier', although most roses are tested for stability before they're registered, so it may be more common amongst unregistered roses?

It's an interesting puzzle- perhaps some rose breeders have a suggestion or two about what may be going on?

Here is a link that might be useful: Painting the Roses Red

    Bookmark   June 9, 2014 at 2:27AM
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