Harlow Carr - Not a Hot Weather Rose

ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9May 22, 2010

I love the blooms on this rose but wish I had known about the Austin catalag entry that puts it in the category of roses that do well in cold climates. I said good-bye to it today and wanted to mention why so that others in hot, dry climates won't make the same mistake. (I really don't know how it would do in a hot, humid situation). Harlow Carr had a beautiful flush in the spring but even then the individual roses were rather short lived, and VERY short-lived if it was a warmer than usual day. Also a habit I didn't care for was that almost every rose on the bush opened at the same time and after the brief show there was nothing until the time that the rose put on new growth again. I much prefer an almost constant bloomer like Wife of Bath who is putting out new growth while there are blooms on the rose. During the summer it pretty well shut down completely no matter how much I watered. Just another learning experience, but if this information is useful to someone else all will not have been lost.


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hosenemesis(SoCal Sunset 19 USDA 8b)

Thanks Ingrid. Exactly the kind of information I need.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2010 at 6:39PM
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Perhaps this might be one of the reasons why DA didn't plan to release this rose here, in Aus.

Ingrid, how long have you been growing Harlow Carr? Do you only grow one Harlow Carr? Factors like that are important to consider as well because sometimes roses can take time to establish themselves. Also, nursery people might ended up giving duds to people.

Having said that, I have a 1st year 'Mayor of Casterbrige' rose - spring flush was beautiful, but it stopped blooming after that.

Jeff Britt made a comment at HMFrose about 'Perdita' rose - he said that he nearly destroyed this rose, but after four five years, the plant became vigorous and flowers generously throughout the year.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2010 at 7:41PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I got this rose from David Austin and it was a big and beautiful bare-root. I've had it for over two years. At first bloom was not good because its position was too shady and I moved it to a sunnier spot. It almost immediately bloomed more there but the blooms fried very quickly in the heat. It's not the lack of rebloom that's the problem but rather that the blooms don't last at all in the heat trap I have up here in the hills. I've had to discard quite a few roses and this has turned out to be just one more. I kept it longer than most of the others but this spring, which hasn't been very hot at all so far, it once again faded very quickly, and I knew it would be much worse in the summer.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 12:16AM
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Sorry for you Ingrid. Harlow Carr is wonderful in my coastal garden with 4 hours of sun. In my latest catalog from Austin, he lists roses for hot dry places. Have you seen that list? If not I can copy the list for you.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 12:54AM
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The Jeff Britt guy has about the worst experiences with roses that I've ever seen. Everytime I see him comment on a rose, it's some kind of blackspot or rust disaster and he has yanked it after what seems to be just 1 year.

While honestly, most thin petaled Austins don't tolerate heat super well, I don't get how people can honestly evaluate a rose after just 1 year in the ground. If a rose has disease, or spent blooms from heat in the 1st year, you can't say it won't grow out of it. Once the root system develops and matures, the rose will have greater access to nutrients and water, therefore less chance of burning and more nutrients to ward off disease. This is one reason I don't get why people just get rid of roses after one year if it doesn't "perform". If that was the case, every Eden climber ever produced, would be extinct as it is slow developing.

I'm not referring to you Ingrid. The idea just crossed my mind from reading HMF articles. I've never seen Harlow Carr in person, so it's probably a thin petaled pink and probably does not tolerate sun well....especially in Cali.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 1:10AM
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*** Once the root system develops and matures, the rose will have greater access to nutrients and water, therefore less chance of burning and more nutrients to ward off disease. ***

Thanks, Jeffcat, for that perspective.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 5:22PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Jeffcat, up to a point you may be right but my puny own-root Wife of Bath which is planted next to where Harlow Carr was has never fried in the heat. My latest Le Vesuve (I have four) is a tiny band and the flowers never withered whereas Mme. Dore of equal size has. I do believe roses can resist disease more easily when they mature but am not quite so sure about heat tolerance. It's rather an interesting question, and I wish I knew the answer. The thickness of the petals certainly should make a difference but who knows what other factors come into play.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 8:32PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Diane, I'd love to see the list since I don't have the catalog any more. Unfortunately I ordered Harlow Carr before I had a catalog. Or you might consider posting it on the forum; I'm sure others would be interested too.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 9:55PM
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karenforroses(z5 NorthernMI)

For once I can be thankful I'm in a colder climate, as Harlow Carr does beautifully here. That's only fair, guys, since I can't grow teas and other tender roses. I see your beautiful picture and your posts about beautiful blooms in May (when my roses are still yawning and asking for coffee and considering MAYBe blooming in late June) and envy your climate. It's a good thing I bought two more Harlow Carrs this spring to join my first one, which bloomed non-stop all last summer. They are my 'small comfort'!

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 9:25AM
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jeffcat, just so you know....there is a climates like that Jeff Britt guy's where 10 million people live: Coastal California. Inappropriate roses for his climate are nevertheless marketed in his area. You 'd have the worst experiences if Tea roses were sold where you live. It's no different with many Austins in the coastal microclimate.

While powdery mildew may go away after a rose matures, rust never leaves. Once we know a rose is a ruster, it goes.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 11:55AM
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le_jardin_of_roses(zone 10)

For me, Harlow Carr does well. I'm not that impressed with it, though. It's interesting that CA has so many micro-climates and so the performance of a rose will vary from area to area.

Ingrid, I can understand how in a hot zone, Harlow Carr would turn into little pink crackers in blazing sun. That's the thing about DA roses, they are sold as a fabulous rose for ALL locations for years and then in time, the catalog will state the reality that the rose is better for a hot or cold zone, accordingly. Harlow Carr, for example, is currently recommended in the catalog for hot and cold zones, but your experience and that of others, may change that recommendation soon enough.

Ingrid, you should put a book together for people that live in your kind of environment, because you have done so much research on which roses can stand intense heat. You are like a scientist of roses for special conditions, such as being by hills and rocks that absorb and reflect heat. I think it may be worth repeating some of the roses that perform well for you. But I see this as all part of the process in getting from Point A to Z in ones garden. Continue keeping us posted on the direction and progress of your garden, Ingrid. It is fun to take the journey with you.


    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 12:50PM
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I do understand the frustration with Austins, believe me, but grafted Austins do need time to build up strength and some need 3 years to do truly well. Some would never do well in full sun but do very well in a semi shady position as I find out with most of my Austins especially with the thin and fully petaled ones like Abraham Darby that looked always wilted in full sun but opens pretty well under the protection of an apricot tree (except in moist weather when it balls. My new Sharifa Asma (the previous one is still planted but too much in shade + virused) is still in a pot, have not decided where to plant it yet. The pot was on the south side and I realized very soon that that would be a very bad idea to leave it there, so right now it gets morning sun and shade in the afternoon, it already blooms better.

Rust is a different story. But new plants that had not given the chance to mature and show what they are capable of but are already discarded by dozens? What a waste, ouch! Cannot help feeling sorry for them.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 1:08PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Juliet, that's very interesting that in the current catalog Harlow Carr is recommended for warm climates since the catalog I had (possibly from two years before that) it was only recommended for a cold climate. How very confusing.

Cass, I just noticed yesterday for the first time that my Abraham Darby has rust. We moved it to a shadier location because like ceterum's it wilted in the sun, even though it got mostly morning sun. Now the flowers are very nice although the plant looks weaker, with floppy thin canes. I didn't mind so much since I was using it only as a cutting rose but the rust has me worried. Could AD infect roses that are approximately 25-30 feet away? I have Marie Van Houtte and Cl. Pinkie growing there (the latter is mildewing a lot since it gets no morning sun), and then SdlM and Mrs. Dudley Cross are another 10-15 feet beyond that. I would really hate for them to catch rust too.

Karen, I'm so glad Harlow Carr looks beautiful for you. I can well imagine that it would be gorgeous without the sun beating it to smithereens. You "cold" people certainly deserve a lot of perks for putting up with your weather.

Juliet, you're so incredibly nice. I don't think I'm the person to take this on, but with global warming and large areas of the world with hot, dry climates I think such a book would be extremely useful. I suppose one could call is "Xeriscaping with Roses and Companion Plants", with some sort of subtitle that this book deals mostly with the tougher antique rose types and modern shrub roses that would thrive in that sort of environment.


    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 5:57PM
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My Harlow Carr rose is planted in a container and wilts when it is in the sun. It has tiny canes developing and it has 4 buds. But I have to keep it out of the sun.

Right now I have no idea what to do--will it fully develop?

Any ideas????

    Bookmark   May 15, 2011 at 9:15PM
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How was Harlow Carr purchased? Bare root, band, potted rose? If you are in Z11 like I think you are, I would keep it out of DIRECT sunlight. Harlow Carr would probably do better in an area with morning sun only, then filtered sunlight the rest of the day from a tree or shrub to keep it from the intense sun.

    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 12:39AM
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Ingrid, much as I loved the flowers of Abe Darby, here in Pasadena he was a rust bucket. I found hoovb's description of him to be right on the money: a giant Cheeto. Hence, he sleeps with the shovels.
The DA website has a small section on "cold weather" and "hot weather" roses -- "cold" being Zones 4 and 5, "hot" being Zones 9 and 10. 12 roses are recommended for each. Harlow Carr is not called out specifically for either hot or cold climates.
I've already tossed my DA catalogue, but what I remember from it is something a little different, because Ambridge Rose was recommended for hot weather, which is why I ordered it, and it's not listed among the 12 on the website. I also recall that I found it in the back of the book, after I'd already finished drooling over everything else.

Here is a link that might be useful: DA hot weather roses

    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 9:31AM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Kay, I'm not saying this to discourage you, and of course your conditions are different from mine, but when I had Ambridge Rose years ago it was a rust bucket from the moment it hit the ground. I was horrified because it was such a lovely rose but it had to go. I've noticed however that on the forum many people praise Ambridge Rose and I don't recall anyone mentioning rust problems with it. It will be forever a mystery since I remember very little rust on anything in that (former) garden except Mutabilis, which always shrugged it off. AR was literally covered with it.


    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 12:55PM
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I live in ky 6b am going to order roses mail order first time is david austin a good bet any rose recomendations i have 200d acres but a 500 dollar budget desperate for advice way to many choices i love pinks and lilac colors and plan to cut a lot for vases also like fragrance

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 11:44PM
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daisyincrete Z10? 905feet/275 metres

Sorry to hear about your Harlow Carr Ingrid.
I notice on the list of roses for warm climates that is on the David Austin web-site, William Shakespeare 2000 is included. I have WS2000 under an apricot tree.
The blooms that are in the shade of the apricot tree are fine, but the blooms that form on the branches that push out into the sun, fry immediately. I wouldn't have recommended it for a warm climate, without this caveat.
On the other hand, Perdita and Teasing Georgia are not included in this list. I have both of them in full, all day sun and they are both wonderful .


Teasing Georgia


    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 1:40AM
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Thanks for the heads up! I wish we could create stickies on this forum so that we could combine all sorts of useful info like which Austins do great in what climates. I'll definitely steer clear of Harlow Carr.


Can I hire you to design my garden? Lol.


    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 8:22PM
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Harlow Carr is an especially good bloomer here in my zone 7 NC garden. It bloomed better than many others during the heat of summer last year. I don't notice any problems with the blooms not holding up well here.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 7:06PM
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Donna in Kentucky, your post is not getting much attention because it is buried in another thread. Try posting it in a new thread of its own for greater visibility.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 10:38AM
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