Weird bud deformaties

buford(7 NE GA)May 2, 2009

I normally see a few buds like this in the spring. I believe it's from the cold. I especially see it on certain roses, mostly Falstaff and The Prince. But this year, I have it on almost all my roses. I am guessing that the late freeze we had caused this. I think it's called bullnosing or something to that effect. If the temps get cold at a certain point in their development, this will occur. So while I thought I survived the frost with loss of some existing buds, it seems that the damage is greater than originally thought. Here are some pics (sorry they are so big):

Sombrieul

Teasing Georgia

Bon Chance

I estimate about 30-50% of the buds are like this. It's very disheartining. I already removed a lot of buds that were fried by the frost and were never going to bloom. Another first flush ruined. Oh well.

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paparoseman(z8 WA. PO.)

The beauty of living in a mild climate is that I see much less of this than many other rose growers. Most of my earliest bloomers do not bloom until mid May so they are not as affected. Your roses are suffering from what is known as proliferation. The causes are not all known but cool spring temperatures seem to bring extra reports. My flowers that suffer the most include the English roses and many of my Tea roses

Lance

    Bookmark   May 2, 2009 at 9:47PM
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duchesse_nalabama

How sad to lose the blooms, Buford.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2009 at 10:49PM
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rosefolly

Proliferation. Sometimes it is called vegetative growth. Most of the time it is just the first flush but not always. I had a Souvenir de la Malmaison that did it all season long. Theories abound, but no one really knows the cause. Or perhaps we should say, the causes.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2009 at 11:57PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

Sounds like it's time to go look at whatever else you have growing in the garden (it's yet another reason to grow a variety of plants). I'm sorry for your disappointment. Last year, when overall I had exceptionally good Teas and Noisettes, I lost the entire grand first flush of 'Duchesse d'Auerstaedt' to bud proliferation. One year in Washington state a single blinding deluge of rain in late May cost me nearly my entire spring flowering, including all my once-blooming roses, gone for the year. These things happen. Part of the value of gardening for me is that it teaches me to accept losses, a natural part of a risky but rewarding whole.
Melissa

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 1:11AM
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rjlinva

I'm getting a lot of this on this year's seedlings. I'm pretty sure most of the seedlings will "outgrow" it.

Robert

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 7:16AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Thanks for the technical term. I do have other stuff blooming. My azaleas and irises have finally bloomed. Usually they are almost done by this time. What a weird spring. But we are getting a lot of rain and for that I'm greatful.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 8:05AM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

I wish I could post the picture of my Aloha that did the same thing. Other flowers have bloomed, but Aloha flowers did that - there were about 3 of them, that I just snapped off.

We have had far too much rain.

Sammy

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 8:21AM
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carolfm(z7upstate SC)

Some springs this is a big problem. Some not at all. Such are the joys of gardening here :-). I'm sorry Bet, it's so disheartening when this happens but the blooms will be better when the weather warms.

Carol

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 8:48AM
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sherryocala

Funny how Mother Nature just isn't very dependable sometimes. I'm sure glad I'm not a farmer. I don't think I could handle their ups and downs. They must be very brave and dedicated. Sorry, Buford, they are about the ugliest things I've ever seen. And I'm finding black beetles in some flowers - not JBs and not a whole lot (yet?). Our temps are warmer so the thrips are gone. I wonder what's coming next. No monsoons in the forecast, but some rain wouldn't be a bad thing.

Sherry

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 9:21AM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

In the east, when the centers of roses don't develop normally, we may see green leafy centers or even new multiple buds in the center. That's what is generally called proliferation, when the stamens and anthers don't develop...and most of these photos show normal stamens.

The Compendium of Rose Diseases (first edition) doesn't even mention proliferation although there are a lot of scientific articles about it. (Go figure!)
The Compendium does mention bull heads. More later.

Here is a link that might be useful: An illustration of proliferation on Peter Beales

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 10:03AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

LOL Sherry. I actually had a bunch of them on the table to take pictures, and while they are very ugly up close, from a short distance, they looked very interesting and colorful. My husband said we should preserve them. I've actually left a bunch on Bon Chance and it looks like a bi-color rose from a distance. I just hope that I get a decent flush before the thrips get here. Or it gets so hot suddenly they don't show up.

And thanks Ann, bull heads what I was thinking of. I'm not sure these were from the freeze, but there was a day not long ago where it went down to 38 degrees. I remember because we went to the ball game and had to wear coats it was so cold. I remember reading somewhere if the temps get below 45 when buds are forming, that causes bull heads.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 10:09AM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

I'd always thought proliferation was cold induced. We saw it really bad in a garden at about 4000' feet several years ago; their first bloom on several hundred roses featured some HTs with three and four additional buds coming out of centers.

The link below is to Autralian roses with it. (I've never seen it on Cecile Brunner, and I've lived with two CB monsters.)

It may take a trip to the ag library to see the new CRD and to do some searches.

Here is a link that might be useful: Proliferation in Australian roses

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 10:22AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I found this on bullheads. What I find funny is that they call it 'floral abortion'. That's what I told DH these buds look like:
Link on bullheads

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 10:24AM
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berndoodle

I think the stubby, rubbery buds are the result of unseasonal cold while the roses are trying to set and open buds.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 11:54AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

The early April freeze was 27 F and overcast in my garden, narrowly avoiding any visible shoot damage on the cane-hardy roses. First blooms are just starting to open, so I don't yet know whether I'll have mutant flowers or not. I'm hoping my plants being a little behind Buford's when the freeze hit will protect them.

'Aloha' is one of the most sensitive to the vagaries of spring weather. My impression is it doesn't even need a freeze, but just a couple of weeks of chilly dark weather as the buds mature. The one I've pruned into an upright shrub has set a huge flush, so I'll be very disappointed if all the flowers are scaggy.

Here's how I use the lingo, but I'm not claiming to be authoritative:

Proliferation: mutant stems and buds grow out of the centers.
Vegetative centers: green grassy growth where the stamens should be.
Bullnose: buds are sawed-off and stumpy with extra carpels. (Compendium of Rose Diseases uses the term "bullhead.")

Some roses are genetically predisposed. I'm convinced it is precipitated by the weather, and not, as sometimes said, by an excess of nitrogen.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 1:13PM
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sherryocala

Oh, so that's why my new Aloha flowers looked funny! They were sawed off and stumpy, not at all pretty or rose-looking. I'll have to look up what carpels are :)) I thought it was due to thrips or maybe something had been chewing on them. Is this a mainly spring thing for Aloha?

Thanks, Michael, for another piece of your brain!

Sherry

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 2:27PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Sherry, it's mainly a spring thing with Aloha, very common in my garden, so that if she didn't repeat so well in summer and fall, I'd SP her.

It just occurred to me that, early in the growing season, one could pinch back every other shoot to spread out the first flush into warmer growing weather. I bet that would help.

Carpels are ovaries with their extending tubes.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 2:53PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I get proliferation or vegetative centers on some of my roses, but this is different. I see a bit of it every spring, but this was more wide spread. Falstaff is usually one that has it the most, but I don't even see any buds on Falstaff as of yet.

Sophie's Rose and Heritage decided to burst open with normal looking blooms today, so I feel better now.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 3:41PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

I'm glad that Sophie and Heritage look good.

It happens on my Marchesa Boccella every year, and I found one today. We've had wild fluctuations in temps here the past three weeks. I just chalk it up to overachievers trying to open too early, and wait for them to settle in.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2009 at 8:30PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Thing seem to be coming back to normal. Some bushes that lost all their new top growth in the freeze now have buds. I guess I have to forget about April blooms and just look to May.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2009 at 8:43PM
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