Need the source(s) for stabilized strain of Adenium obesum seeds that will grow true to color. Would like a dark, saturated red. NO PINKS.
Frank, please don't hold your breath. Only way is graft.
From seeds? Mostly pink.....
Thanks for the "short and sweet"... less, IS more!
I thought just maybe, maybe...this might be a reality. I needed 10-15 plants with same characteristics, -within reason- ....so I thought if there was a stabilized strain, I'd grow them from seed. I wanted the fat caudex also. Cuttings from a named variety are out. I was told by a commercial grower that cuttings are next to impossible to root, and that cuttings don't produce the caudex of seed-grown plants Big demerit.
Thanks for the quick reply.
Frank, tonight when I get home from work, I will post one that I have. Very dard red, burgundy, just like dard red velvet for you to see. Just blooms few days ago.
Marie...you da best! This time, I will hold my breath.
Please, also tell me where you bought the red-velvet plant. I just recently found two growers that sell premium plants: "Lucky Sumo Adenium", and "Durham Botanicals".....but all grafted plants.
Thanks for the friendly help.
Frank, it is what you looking for? People who read this forum knew that someone stole this pot from me. Whoever that was, gave it back to me after one year. (I found it at my front door 1 year later) It didn't look good when I got it back, but I loved this bonsai type and took good care of it. Now with many small buds. (maybe in June will look much better).
The picture show you the date.
It looks like this today. (will looks better soon, with full blooms)
YES! This is the color....deep, black, blood-red. Beautiful plant, and so glad that you got the plant back. What kind of sick person steals this kind of plant and why give it back? Anyway, good luck with the plant from now on, and thanks for the photos.
Obviously this is a composite plant...the branches were grafted onto another Adenium. If you fast-forward 10-15 years, do you think that the grafts will still show, and will the caudex morph into a very different form/shape? I guess what I'm really asking whether this plant will essentially be the same, but only larger as it ages? Your best guess is fine.
I have never seen photos of a plant that was grown for 15- 25, years, nor photos of the transitions that the plant went through...so I have no idea how Adeniums "age". They seem to grow more and more branches, but the caudex doesn't seem to get taller...just wider.
The reason I am asking these questions is that I eventually want to grow a tree-like Adenium, rather than a boulder-shaped Adenium with branches.
Just thinking out loud, maybe I'll get some answers.
Thanks for the great photo tour.
Frank, it takes years to fade out the graft scar. Adenium consider to be slow grow, so it takes awhile for it to grow big. I don't want them to get big because too heavy to bring inside in the winter time.
The caudex will get bigger, but each plant has different shape.
Good luck finding what you want.
So.....let me get this straight.....
All the sellers of named variety, Adenium seed are basically full of crap. The seeds that they sell are always right next to a photo of the flower that you THINK that you're going to grow and bloom if you plant their seeds. Of course, this is deceit, pure, and simple. So all seeds from Thailand, Taiwan, India, E-Bay etc...just a crap-shoot.
What percentage of seeds produce exceptional plants worthy of propagation? I'm talking about amateur growers who buy a few hundred seeds, and grow them in their backyards, or windowsills.
Frank, if you email and ask ALL the adenium seed sellers on Ebay to see that percentage of the seeds have it mother's color. They will tell you about 5%, even I doubt that high percentage. 2 years ago, I read an article from a grower over sea, he said (with over 22,000 seeds he germintated, only 5 plants had the blooms he wanted to keep for graft) the rest were using for rootstock. So each grower would have to do large numbers of seedlings to collects supply for grafting. There are many beautiful color adenium out there from crossing, but also most of them from graft too.
So, seeds are basically a waste of time unless you need stock seedlings for grafting...
Other than a commercial grower, who would have the room and time to waste on growing junk plants? Even if you crossed two exceptional named cultivars, the genetics are so complex that the flowers will still be, God know what? So it's always a gamble that probably, almost never, pays off.
Interesting. Marie, thanks for the added information.
I've purchased a number of seeds. Reliable growers will state that seeds will rarely grow true but most make it look like their seeds will produce whatever they have pictured and even then many of those photos are doctored. It's the same for plumerias and brugs though with those I think the chances of the plant having the parent's traits are better then an adenium. At least 75% of my adenium seedlings so far have a solid pink flower but that hasn't stopped me from growing from seed. Still trying for a yellow. At least it doesn't take adeniums a ridiculously long time to reach blooming size like it does with a plumeria. As for the graft scar I don't know how long they take to remodel. I had a grafted adenium (lost 2 years ago)that was about 8 years old and the scars were still visible but I don't think it really detracted because they were fairly low and the caudex contorts and enlarges so much. You really only noticed them when the plant was dormant.
I guess that most Adenium seed growers know that their seedlings probably will not produce anything unique, and, they also enjoy the process of growing to the flowering stage.
I also grow Clivia, and I know plenty of growers who just live to grow seeds from the latest pedigree crosses. You need to wait at least 5 years or more, for the first flowers to bloom, and then, most flowers are no better than what has already been grown before. They love hoping.
I'd rather spend good money on a named, blooming-size plant, and cut-to-the-chase. At least I know what my money bought me.
Everyone enjoys growing plants in different ways.
Thanks for the interesting information. I think that I will not be growing seeds in my future....Clivia, nor Adenium.
To each his own.
Clivias from seed drive me crazy. I have a few that I started several years ago and they are still a ways from blooming. I have a friend who's a clivia nut. Better him then me. I don't have the patience and start to lose interest waiting for the seed grown plants to bloom. My DH occasionally carries blooming orange and yellow flowered clivias. Too bad he never gets any with variegated foligae.
Frank and Karyn, count me in too. I am not a patient woman who can wait 5 years for a small plant to bloom. I had 3 clivia few years back, but today only 1 still with me. First year, one had about 9 big seeds. I wanted to keep the seeds, but after reading about it. I said, no way I have 5 years to wait. I also found out clivia can become expensive with rare color.
The Clivia bug gnawed its way into my brain sometime last Fall. Generic, orange Clivia are a dime a dozen, but if you want named hybrids, be prepared to spend a small fortune. You're buying 25-50 years worth of breeding, selection, culling, then propagation, which is very, very slow. I just spent the better part of $150.00 for a special, wide-leaved plant, a division, and I will have to wait a few years until I see the first flowers. But Clivia flowers are more predictable than Adenium crosses.
A nursery owner offered me a bunch of Clivia seeds off his stock plant. I sowed, they growed. After 4 months, the single leaves are approaching about 1" high. I have at least 5 years to wait...so maybe when I turn 67 years old, I'll see the first blooms. That's why at my age, I pay the vig, and buy blooming-size plants. It's cheaper. How much is five years of your time worth?
Adenium are no bargain either. Yeah, they're faster to bloom from seed, but the flowers will probably be nothing worth keeping. You can't root cuttings, and crosses/seeds give you who knows what? Grafted plants don't come cheap, and really, too many named-varieties look too much like one another. How many different pinks can there be? How many whites with red edges are unique?
Adenium breeders need to concentrate on better flower form, and substance. Thicker, waxy, longer-lasting flowers would be nice. So would resistance to insects and diseases.
Just my opinion.
I believe that most of us are growing DRs for unique and unpredictable shape, flowers are a bonus but not the most important feature. I guess if it would be easy to do we would see DR seeds same as mother plant sold all over e-bay!
Some plants can be replicated only by grafts, it's just the way they set seeds. For now the only way to get what you like is buying non grafted plants with perfect red flowers! Hope you can find what you are looking for!
I doubt that I will find "Adenium Nirvana". I too, like the form of the plant, and as you say, the blossoms, for me, are really just a bonus.
I watched a video showing some Adenium competition that was posted on You-Tube. The video showed past champion plants as well as other magnificent plants being judged. I could not believe how beautiful some of these plants are, but what astounded me was the countless hours of training that must go into creating one of these "trees".
Thanks for the input.
I'm with Aggie that the caudex is the most interesting part of an adenium but I'm kind of a caudiciform nut and have several varieties. I like the adenium blooms, especially the doubles but doubt I'd be that interested in growing them if they didn't have that unusual caudex.
i grow them just because i love to grow things. all my tomato plants in my garden and pepper plants are from seed...the rest of the garden is seeds that are directly sown...green beans, corn, squash, cucumber, gourd, pumpkin, watermelon, and canteloups with a dash of sunflowers here and there and i will admit some vanilla marigolds i bought but will probably grow from seed next year. only thing that is not direct sowed is my onion bulbs. It is just a matter of growing something from seed...i just love to grow things :) and i love pink but so hope to get a special plant here and there from the adenium seeds i purchased...i too agree that it is about the caudex...cause without the caudex the flowers resemble 10 or so plants i can think of just off the top of my head.
Are purple flowers on DR's real? Is it a complete joke to order seeds from a purple plant?
Elucas, yes there are purple rain DR and purple rose DR, but not from seeds. If you have both of these plants they will give you purple blooms.
I have some but they still small and don't have any bloom at this time. I hope some buds will open soon. I will update this post for you to see.
Elucas, I post an answer to your question yesterday, and today my purple rain DR blooms for the first time (first bloom) many small buds still not open.
closer shot image.
This is 3 years old, but still very small. First time blooms for me and worth all the time waiting.
Marie, you just knock our socks off time and time again. Beautiful as always. Peg
I agree with Peg.. It did knock my socks off! She sure is a beauty!!
I also wonder about the seeds and the true color. I do have a few large DR's and they are mostly pink and a few darker pink..almost red. (wishful thinking..) : ) But, i am really interested in the Caudex as well. I love the different shapes and i am so gratedful when i do have blooms on any of my DR's as well as my Plumeria!
Good Luck with your search!!!
From what I have read, and from all the input given on this forum regarding stabilized seed strains for the DR...it ain't happening. Logee's is the only place that offers a DR grown from stabilized seeds. I would love to know who supplies their seeds.
I guess, if I want a certain color blossom on a plant...I will have to tolerate the ugly grafts. There are no other choices.
For me, this lack of any stabilized seed strains, and even worse, few sources for named plants is a very big demerit. For others, it doesn't seem to be. If I liked the color pink, I could buy all the plants I want...but, I don't...so I won't. The search continues.
Thanks for the comments.
Marie, it's just gorgeous! Congrats, it was worth waiting for! Did you get it from Thai nursery or here in US?
Frank, there are more adeniums at nurseries this year, so with all crazy people (like me) buying them we should have more to choose from soon. Last 2 months there were a lot of red and white adeniums (not grafted) at my local HD. Small ones, but considering price (8 bucks) for blooming plant good deal. All no name but still nice, so there is hope for you! I will try to snap some pictures when I go to HD next time.
Thanks Peg, Laura, Frank and Aggie, you are all very sweet.
Aggie, I got it from ThaiLand 3 years ago, and it was very very small back then.
$8 for DR with bloom is a very good deal, because it takes about a year for it to bloom.
Marie, that flower is AMAZING!!! Truly gorgeous - and you have many more blooms just waiting to open!!! Very nice!
My red bud on tiny 6 in tall plant; caudex is about 1 in in diameter.
Aggie, I hope this little fat bud will give you double or triple bloom....
It looks very tall up in the sky with the angle of the picture.
Very happy for you.
I wish Marie!
I know it's single just big with nice fat buds :). I had no luck (yet) with doubles!
I was going to ask you for some time; how much sun your DRs get on the line up next to he fence? I moved mine to the middle of the yard with whole day of Florida sun and they look a bit fried :(.
Aggie2, very nice bud there and that plant has GREAT caudex potential - it's really cool even right now!
After I let mine adjust with some partial sun for a few weeks, I have put them out in full sun pretty much all day 8+ hrs (Texas) and so far they're doing great but I'm keeping an eye on them to make sure I don't fry them. So far so good but I'm sure I'll have to reduce the sun they get before summer is over.
I have seedlings out in the full sun too!
Aggie, most of my DR are in full sun. Some seedlings are partly sun, because I don't have big backyard.
This thread is a bit frightening. My sister and I are only just now emerging from denial (that we've become obsessed with DRs). I'm so not even going to look up what a Clivia is, it sounds contagious.
I'm a little disappointed that the seeds I just received from Mr. Ko would end up producing pink flowers instead of the deep dark Dracula red I was hoping for. But I care less about the flower than I do about the adenium caudex. If I could grow a baobab tree, I would do that too!
And who would not be stunned by this guy!
Yes, he looks like he needs to put something on lol But the mechanics of the caudex alone is enough to leave one dumbfounded (gushing here).
This one though is sprouting leaves that appear different from my other two Adeniums (Adenia turned out to be a different caudiciform which hopefully I will not end up wanting to get). And he's clearly a Frankendenium but that's okay too! Maybe someday he'll lose the graft scar, I don't really care that much.
I like adeniums.
Fakechuchi, your plant is grafted and with that, you probably have double or triple bloom...(not single pink).
Soon, it will look better with leaves.
At the end of last year I bought seeds from Mr. Ko that were sold with both the pod parent and pollen parent stated. This should be a big step forwards as regards getting something resembling either parent, especially when the cross is like x like. Open pollinated seeds are probably a complete waste of time. The seedlings in the photo are from two different crossings. The tray to the rear are Miracle x Ko ebay 45 and the front tray are Ko ebay 14 x Miracle. The parents are all excellent double reds so I am hoping to get something worth keeping. The seeds were sown on 29th December. I am also growing some yellow x yellow so time will tell. The original plants are illustrated on page 19 of Mr. Ko's website. When the plants flower I will post the results.
Yes, Tolip, I think that one over there is the best looking of my three adeniums. I've only had them for a couple or so months so I don't know what they look like with leaves.
Hi Marie! I absolutely do not mind Frankendeniums (grafted DRs). Though I also wanted to experience growing from seeds so I got seeds. I'm reading up on it as much as I can (that's how i discovered this old thread) while working up the nerve to start.
I look forward to your flowers, adenium1949. The only odds I've found, though, I found here in this thread. If my seeds do not end up flowering as advertised, oh well. Fingers crossed.
Pink flowers can also be nice as long as a plant is flowering well.
Ya know, I've heard it said that dandelion flowers would be welcomed in any front yard if they were hard to grow! I think of that when my ordinary easy to grow pink flowers bloom...
Still, no sources for stabilized seed?
(Note....if you want an interesting plant that produces a huge, lumpy, bumpy, convoluted caudex...try: Cyphostemma juttae.
No decorative flowers, but the leaves have the texture of thick, waxy, vinyl plastic, are huge, and the plant is a dynamic grower. In the fall it produces sprays of beautiful, orange-red "grapes" Also, not as temperamental as the Adenium, and grows well with the same culture, soil mixes, temps).
I offer this information only as an alternative, caudex-growing plant. These Cyphostemma plants look prehistoric compared to the more refined, Adenium...but they are long lived, free of diseases, fast growers, cheap, and have their own unique, "charm".
The issue of stabilized seed may be of importance, but the Adenium or
the apocynaceae family is not the only Genus that would be considered similar.
With many the other Genus. If you want what you see then you graft it or purchase one that has been. I do not believe that there is anyone growing Adeniums that could guarantee anyone that the resultant seedling would be a clone of either parent. Growing these from seed for many and the result when they do flower is the challenge and hopefully the result in something unique.
If one wants a truly fat caudex then you grow Arabicums as obesums are not a certainty of a fat caudex, just exposed root system with raising over many years.
Just my opinion,
You are a step closer to growing a miniature baobab, Frank. Thanks.
I have a Jatropha podagrica. It's another plant with a nice caudex.
The caudex-producing plants are indeed, an interesting lot. Adenium is just one of many.
I do hope in the future, the breeders try to produce some strains that will grow true from seeds. Logge's found a stabilized strain of seed, that produces red, single flowers, and I was hoping that the original breeders would introduce it to the market. I haven't found a source.
I also hope that breeders would select better, more disease resistant, and virus resistant plants. Maybe for starters.... flowers that have some substance, and stronger texture....and, better grafting techniques.
I see a glut of doubles and triples flooding the market, and this seems to be the trend. I personally could live without the overly congested flowers loaded with misshapen petals. If I want that tuberous begonia-look, I'll grow some. This is just a personal preference.
If my lousy, 7-b climate was more friendly to the caudex producers, I'd have many more. i think they are very easy growers if cultural conditions are met. Certainly easier than many other "house plants". How can you beat the electric, orange-scarlet flowers on Jatropha podagrica?
I live in INDIA. Where can I buy Adsenium multi layered seeds cause nobody sells them online or I am not able to find out. Can anyone tell me the website which sells these seeds in INR.
You probably can't grow multipetals from seeds.But you can buy them as grafted plants.
Hi, Souradep 1982, Thanks for you reply. Is there any other way to grow multipetals. And can I buy single petal seeds online by INR. Website please
Jsfci, seeds for adenium are selling on Ebay. Very reasonable price. Grafted plants give you the color you want because it has name tag.
Great info everyone !
jsfci, multipetals can be grown from cuttings here as we enjoy a favourable climate here in India. But I"ll suggest u to buy grafted plants because they have much better form compared to cutting grown ones.Now if u want to grow from seeds , please note that u will get a regular pink from seedgrown plants most of the time if not always.Around this time of the year u can get ripening seed pods on regular seedgrown plants if u search gardens in your locality.
what is this plant/flower?
Saw it in your PB between DR & COT when I was trying to look at the pics you posted on this thread.
All your flowers are just wonderful.
If I weren't such a slow reader, I would have come to this thread sooner. Oh well, I guess I will be raising 200 + pink DRs. Marie tried to warn me but .....
So, when a DR grower selling DR seeds is a "reputable" grower, what does it mean? I guess that does not include the seed biz., just the grafting.
This post was edited by otis11 on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 13:28
With the limited experience I have.
A reputable grower is trying to produce different hybirds and sells seeds to you/us with no different percentages of the seedlings being anywhere true, but hopefully with some similar characteristics or possibly an "new" hybrid.
Which is then sold as grafted or tissue culture for a clone of the mother plant.
I believe when purchasing seed, you cannot expect anything, just be happy with something different or uniquie.
If someone wants a particular flower of liking, then they need to purchase a grafted plant, unless the nursery/seller is selling that plant in photo as is.
Just my take on this.
Rick: Thx. for the explanation. I haven't been able to find any place in Canada selling/shipping DR. I went to several nurseries in town, one even said, Oh, we sell roses only in spring. LOL.
I to have checked continuously at different stores here (west coast Vancouver) and have never come across any.
I have applied for a permit, to hopefully get some from Rinoa. Have not heard back yet. I had tried to see if a few people close by wanted to make an order if it comes through, but no takers. No one addicted to them like myself.
Hope it comes through.
Rick: Could you e-mail me at black__gold AT hotmail dot com? Thanks.
Could you let me know if you received email. My own on this site is not working. thanks. Rick