Please help me identify my late grandfather's rose.

MilesDevin(7a)May 5, 2014

This rose in particular has much sentimental value to me. My grandfather passed away a year ago, May 18th. This rose bush grew next to his home in rural Oklahoma ever since I can remember. It even grew in partial shade! Anyways, it seems to be a once bloomer. Thankfully, I managed to successfully transplant it to our home. It is quite fragrant with small, old garden, blooms. The buds are interesting, when some start to open, they show a white tinge, while others show a definite pink before opening. The bloom is a deep pink, fading to a dark violet. I'll include more photos below! Thank you for your help!

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MilesDevin(7a)


Picture of the bush itself


Size of Bloom


Side view

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 7:21PM
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MilesDevin(7a)

Second day bloom. 90 degrees today.

Nearly spent bloom. Very fragrant.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 7:25PM
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MilesDevin(7a)

Someone suggested it was "Comte de Chambord" but this rose seems a bit deeper pink?

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 7:29PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

It looks a bit like 'Surpasse Tout', but there are many other Gallicas it might be. While it's still up, check through VIntage Gardens' page on Gallicas, and then cross-reference the names on HelpMeFind.

'Surpasse Tout' at HelpMeFind
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.2459&tab=1

Vintage Gardens' Gallicas
http://vintagegardens.com/roses.aspx?cat_id=16

Rose Search at HelpMeFind
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 8:26PM
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fogrose(zone 10/sunset 17)

It's not Comte de Chambord. Larger pinker flowers and a rebloomer.

Good luck with identifying. It might be one of the Hybrid Chinas as well as the Gallicas. Both will take partial shade too.

Diane

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 8:57PM
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MilesDevin(7a)

Ahh. Thank you for the advice. I guess it could be anything. So many of the Gallica's look similar.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 10:53PM
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nastarana(5a)

What a lovely memorial of your grandfather. Have you contacted your local rose society? Someone there might have an idea what roses were being sold in your town a ways back.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 12:07AM
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trospero(8)

It's one of the Gallicas (with possibly some China blood in it -- it can be hard to know for certain) but which one is going to be difficult to determine. There are many that look awfully similar, particularly in that "deep pink/cerise/magenta-shifting-to-purple" color spectrum.

The relatively small bloom size (for the class) eliminates a number of possible IDs. The bloom form is fairly distinctive, which will help narrow down the options. If I were to hazard a guess based solely on the end-stage color + bloom form, I might say Belle de Crecy, but if the finishing color is more "violet" than deep purple/mulberry, then that makes it a less likely option. Belle de Crecy isn't a particularly small flower either, but it is a relatively short plant IME.

I will browse Suzanne Verrier's book to see if I spot a variety that stands out as a candidate.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 9:58AM
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MilesDevin(7a)

It does seem quite similar to Belle de Crecy maybe not quite as dark! Thank you so much!

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 12:48PM
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trospero(8)

"It does seem quite similar to Belle de Crecy maybe not quite as dark! Thank you so much!"

Remember, its just a guess....I discourage folks from labeling a "found" rose with any name until and unless multiple people have suggested the same ID and have little doubt about it.

If you are growing this rose in a location that is relatively shady (IE: very few -- if any -- direct sun hours at that site) then it might be 'Belle De Crecy', which is likely to exhibit paler coloring in such conditions.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 5:19PM
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lagomorphmom(z10Coastal and z8Mtn CA)

I know not of Gallicas, but may I suggest...

- Naming it "Grandfather's Rose" or "Grandpa's Rose", whatever your family's name for him. There are many found roses with similar names on HelpMeFind, roses named for those who found it, where it was found, etc. The quotation marks let people know it is a Study Name

- Since it means so much to you (and it would me too) why don't you try propagating it this spring? That way if it has "an accident" you'll have back ups. Also some of the other relatives might love a keepsake like this. If you use the Study Name, it will have more meaning and value to them than "the pink rose grandpa used to have".

Just some thoughts. On a tangential note, you might post a separate thread to see if "Grandmother's Hat" would work in your area, she might make a nice memory plant of your gram.

Best, Kerin

    Bookmark   May 6, 2014 at 8:15PM
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MilesDevin(7a)

Thank you, Kerin. Your response was so kind! I've successfully rooted 8 of these. I've given them as gifts to some of my relatives. Regardless of which rose this is, it will always remind me of him.

"Grandmother's Hat" is absolutely gorgeous! Do you know where I could purchase this rose? I'm very new to the forums.

Also, trospero, I hope I didn't offend you. Now that I have the mother, and two of my propogated plants blooming, "Belle de Crecy" is starting to seem like a match! They're all in different amounts of light, and all are showing beautiful variations of color. Even a light, pure lilac.

Thank you all so much for your help. I was a bit intimidated to post here. I'm new to growing roses, at age 27, and I appreciate all of the help I can get!

    Bookmark   May 7, 2014 at 3:30PM
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luxrosa

Does it re-bloom?

Knowing that alone will help a long ways in identifying it.

I think that the leaflets appear more broad in your rose than in Belle de Crecy, and yours appear to have more substance.
Can you please take photos:
- of the back of a bloom
-and 12" to 18" of cane length that shows the armature?
Lux

    Bookmark   May 7, 2014 at 6:30PM
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view1ny NY 6-7

Kerin, I loved your ideas for naming the rose. Truly heartwarming sentiment.

    Bookmark   May 7, 2014 at 11:50PM
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organic_tosca(9/Sunset 14)

Miles, please don't feel intimidated by this forum! We all were beginners once, and when I started posting here, I had never gardened AT ALL! I know that I totally embarrassed myself a number of times, but for the most part, people were generous and kind, and I learned so much from their answers to my questions. I don't post much these days, but it's not because I'm uninterested - it's just that I don't have any roses of my own anymore. I do get my rose fix by volunteering at the Sacramento Old City Cemetery's Heritage Rose Garden, and I remain involved in the subject and am learning more about the roses all the time. And, of course, I adore them! Anyway, welcome to the forum and to the world of Old Roses! I love it that you rescued your beloved grandfather's rose - my family salvaged my own grandfather's rose and kept it through many moves. It was a known rose, 'Mlle. Cecile Brunner', though. There is something romantic about your rose being clearly old, and yet a mystery. Good luck with your quest!
Laura

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 2:20PM
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alameda/zone 8

I will go look at mine tomorrow, but it rather reminds me of my Russelliana........I looked it up on Helpmefind.com [you might take a look at this] and it does look quite similar, has a strong fragrance, blooms once.........I got mine from a friend's older home in the country - she has since moved, but my rose lives on. Glad you were able to save a piece of your grandfather's history.
Judith

    Bookmark   May 11, 2014 at 1:45AM
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trospero(8)

Judith might be right -- 'Russelliana' is a distinct possibility, given the bloom size and petal configuration. If the plant turns out to be a large, arching semi-climbing plant, then I'd be inclined to go with Judith's suggestion. The plant size and architecture will be very telling.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2014 at 9:28AM
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