Oddball seedlings

jv44(Zone 4 MN)June 7, 2013

I'm not sure if it has any real significance but I have three seedlings (sown on May 28 of this year) that have three leaves to start with instead of two--I forget the correct term for these leaves, maybe cotyledons? My limited past experiences with seeds is that the plant will produce true leaves in triplicate from here on out....and strangely enough they are all from a batch of mixed Saudi arabicums. Also, I have one Yemeni arabicum seedling (same sowing date) that has FOUR cotyledons with two of them being fused together--the first photo shows this although it's slightly out of focus.

I also have two seedlings that appear to be albinos--or at least they are a very pale yellowish green....and they both seem to be doing just fine growth-wise. The second photo shows one of them, an S1/Golden Bell Thai soco, The other is a "Black Giant" arabicum. I'll try to get some better photos later this evening--my digital camera was just being obnoxious about focusing with sunlight coming in the window!

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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

I couldn't post two photos at the same time so here's the pic of the "albino" S1/Golden Bell Thai soco. By the way, I got 100% germination of the S1's (8 of 8 seeds) as well as 8 of 8 for the KHZ Thai socos in the same tray....although one doesn't look so good and it was the first to germinate--you can see it on the far right in this pic.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2013 at 7:32PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

Here's a better close-up shot of that 4 cotyledon seedling of Yemen arabicum--it's starting to look like a four-leaf clover except the 2 leaves on the left are fused together. Evidently this and 3 cotyledon seedlings must be more common than I thought judging by the lack of comments on them. I still find them fascinating nonetheless and look forward to what they do as the grow.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 6:20PM
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kodom087 z9a

Missed this post before. I rather like the fused leaves on the one seedling. Shame the rest won't be like that. I find it interesting. I've had one that did the same but the rest were singles.

As for the albino ones I've read that if they don't quickly develop some color in leaves soon that they will end up dying. I've seen pics where you can attempt to micro graft the seedling onto an established plant so it can then get food to grow. It would then most likely would become green but seems there are cases where it remains at least variegated.

Keep us posted.
Kirk

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 9:08PM
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ginger9899(10 SW Florida)

I have a couple like that also and wondered about them myself. I'll just keep watching them.

-Heather

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 8:35PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

I'd be willing to try my hand at a micro graft except at the moment I only have one established obesum--a seedling of "Black Fire" that has very nice red flowers with black petal edges and light yellow throat. And right now it has 2 flower buds forming on the main stem, so I don't want to interrupt that. After it finishes blooming I want to prune it to make it branch--so if either albino seedling lives that long, then I'll try to graft it maybe.

I added a current pic of the arabicum "Black Giant" albino--you can't see the new leaves forming, but they're growing--I don't know, maybe all is not lost for this one.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 11:35PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

And here's a current photo of the albino Thai soco S1/Golden Bell--it looks like it has three cotyledons but actually the upper and right hand leaves are fused together. If I were to graft one this would be it--it's showing no new growth yet but has red mid ribs to the cotyledons....again, this isn't visible here thanks to the camera flash washing it out.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 11:43PM
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ginger9899(10 SW Florida)

Those albino seedlings are very interesting indeed. Does the stem of an albino usually redden up or usually also stay white before their demise? I don't blame you for not wanting to interrupt a beautiful flowering to graft.

-Heather

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 9:15AM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

I'm not really sure what happens to albinos with regards to turning red or not--both of mine are red to a degree, just that one is more red than the other. The stems of many of my other seedlings are getting darker/more reddish yet some are remaining more green--and they're all getting the same amount of sunlight while I have them outside during the day.....night temps here are still high 40's to low 50's F so I'm still bringing all my DR seedlings inside around sunset. I may be a little overprotective but they're almost all arabicums and Thai socos and it's my first time growing them from seed so I want my losses to be minimal.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 9:47AM
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ginger9899(10 SW Florida)

I think mine are about the same age as yours and they are doing the same, some staying green, some getting darker. I think you are smart for bringing them in at below 50's at night. Better safe than sorry. Mine stay out all of the time. I'm lucky - 90's during the day and 70's at night. Haven't been getting much sun though, cloudy and rainy here constantly the past couple weeks.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 3:30PM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

I got a few albinos when i started growing my seedlings last year. Unfortunately they did not last and all of them died off. I got some white leaves on some green plants...but those leaves died off and new white ones grew. I started growing some different seedlings that someone off here sent me and they all turned out vegregated but most died off. I have 3 left. They are very small, are about 4 months old and only an inch high above the dirt. I hope at least one will make it but they are just so small...

    Bookmark   June 17, 2013 at 7:36PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

Update on the seedlings....I still have the two albinos, one just sits there doing nothing (the S1/Golden Bell) while the other (Yemen arabicum) is slowly pushing up two true leaves--I don't hold out any hopes for them as I have nothing to graft them onto at the moment.

As for the ones with three cotyledons.....the first three are from a batch of mixed Saudi arabicums and two of them show three leaves coming instead of the normal paired leaves. Then I got two more of these tricots from seed sown June 3/4, one is a mixed dwarf arabicum and the other is a "Desert Night Fork" arabicum--both of these seedlings have three true leaves instead of pairs.....and curiously the DNF is the most obvious and fastest of all of them! I'll try to get some photos later today in the sunlight....but first I go to the doc this morning to get my 24 staples removed from my hernia surgery on June 11.....not sure that they may even keep me overnight as there's still a lot of swelling under the incision, almost like I've got a fat sausage under my skin--not a happy camper here at the moment!

Mike in MN

    Bookmark   June 25, 2013 at 9:02AM
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ginger9899(10 SW Florida)

I look forward to seeing your photos Mike, I sure hope your trip to the doc went well today. Yikes, I feel for you.

Be well!
-Heather

    Bookmark   June 25, 2013 at 4:25PM
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tedb4(11b)

Ditto for that Mike- It doesn't sound like any fun.... hope you recover quickly...

Ted

    Bookmark   June 25, 2013 at 11:41PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

Yeah, I'm much better, thanks.....they used a local anesthetic, made a small incision and manually drained the area....then they removed the 24 staples, closed the incision with two stitches, and I was able to drive home--back to work on Thursday!

Mike in MN

    Bookmark   June 25, 2013 at 11:51PM
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roseyd(6)

could one graph two babies together? join them at the sides so that they both keep a root system, but bond from the sides upwards? (kinda like siamese twins?)

I've never graphed anything -so this is just an enquiring mind, type of comment...

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 12:44PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

You know rosey....that's a very good suggestion--I never thought of that! I'm going to pose that very question on the other two adenium forums I belong to and see what the experts say about it!

Mike in MN

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 1:37PM
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roseyd(6)

I'm patting myself on the back and feeling extremely smart. :)

So let me know if they like or veto the idea. There could be a possibility (slight) that I've suddenly become a genius. ;)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 3:27PM
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roseyd(6)

it didn't last long ... double posting kinda' burst my 'genius'-pending bubble.

This post was edited by roseyd on Wed, Jun 26, 13 at 15:30

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 3:28PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

So far I've only had one response--he thought it might work but that if the albino didn't produce some green within it's leaves as a result of the graft...it would probably die and maybe even kill the healthy seedling that it was grafted to.

However.....since I DO have over 100 seedlings to work with to try this, and since the albinos WILL die if left by themselves anyway....I'm going to attempt it because I have no other choice. Plus I want to see from a learning standpoint if it actually works.....and what will happen.

I think I'll only be able to post "before" and "after" pics since I'll have to work very quickly after making my cuts. Since most other grafts usually use some kind of grafting tape to hold both parts together....and seedlings being far too small to use said tape--I think I'll use a small piece of string to keep them together until the graft is successful (IF it is successful) and also keep them in a sealed plastic baggy for humidity.

Mike in MN

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 4:26PM
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kodom087 z9a

Great experiment. I've often thought about doing this kind of grafting on some seedlings as an experiment. Just keep an eye on them with the baggy being sealed for fungus issues is probably my only suggestion at this point. Hope this goes splendidly for you!

Kirk

    Bookmark   June 26, 2013 at 7:07PM
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