Ballooning

kodom087 z9aAugust 18, 2013

On one of the many adenium groups on facebook I saw this posted about ballooning. I'll be experimenting with some of my arabicums.

I have been seeing pictures like these, also, in those groups and often wondered why they kept cutting the leaves. I'm guessing it's for the ballooning technique.

Kirk

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fakechuchi(7)

Hmmm....My arabicum seedlings and I are going to have a "talk" about this ballooning thing.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2013 at 8:39PM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

Cutting leaves is a technique used for bonsai also...It's also supposed to make the new leaves grow smaller which aims for a more desirable bonzai look..limiting the amount of light the plant can use it also makes it stay small and stumpy... It can be easier then cutting roots for people only starting out with bonzai

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 6:48AM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

Kirk,

That is very interesting. I am going to try that with a few of my seedlings to see if that will increase the girth of the caudex. Thank you for the information.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 10:24PM
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egyronin(6B-7-BK,NY)

Have any one tried this method?do you have pics to show for the results?any esp. fert.regime you use during this?
time to ressurect this thread again, is that ok with you kirk?best regard A.Gaber

    Bookmark   February 13, 2014 at 9:01PM
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Aggie2(10a)

Tried last summer, after reading about it here. Cut leaves from 2 out of 6 obesum seedlings, about 8 month old. Two were bigger than rest, so I was hoping that I can push others to be as big (bigger?) then largest siblings. No difference in this case, they just sent new leaves in the week or so, and kept going at same speed. It is possible that in different conditions, older plants, with slower growth rate or on arabicums it can give different results. I would guess that when you cut large part of canopy, you create misbalance, too much roots not enough green, and it can result in all energy into caudex expansion before new leaves are there. BTW, two biggies are just growing faster than the rest..
I kind of learned that you need to leave adeniums alone, even cutting top to induce branching wasnâÂÂt that successful, most will just send one shot to replace what was cut, and brunch or not later. Also IâÂÂm backing off from yearly repotting with exposing caudex, caudex is slowing down when exposed, so if I need bigger pot OK, but same level of soil for couple of years. We will see what happens.
.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 12:14PM
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jv44(Zone 4 MN)

Ballooning is done with arabicums, not obesums. Obesums get large roots that are raised and then look similar to the caudex of arabicums....but from everything I've read about this technique, nobody has mentioned doing it with obesums--only arabicums, as they form a true caudex. Also done with Thai socos since they're actually hybrid arabicums originally bred in Thailand.

Mike in MN

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 1:28PM
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egyronin(6B-7-BK,NY)

from what i know,this should be done in the growing season,when the plant is really putting on growth.i would assume that would be early spring.
i think i have read here before arabicum goes into dormancy or semi state of dormancy in the summer due to the heat,not sure if that even is correct.
maybe someone chime in,and explain to us how bonsai growers does this"deleafing"when they take away all the leaves the plant respond by sending bunch of stems and branches.i havent got any success on this method so no worries aggie you r not alone :)
i even tried this on vines(jasmine)because they grow so fast. deleaved one of the plants and clipped the apex off.nothing happen another branch became the lead branch and leaves took a while to grow back.the only thing they grow a little smaller than before.which looks a little better.

i know arabicum comes in a dwarf species that stays short and fat and some have two main branches like JV44's i also have on like that.but looking at the pic above their is a bunch their that has branches coming out from the base.cant it be it just a method they use?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 11:53PM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

When Kirk posted this thread, I was curious and had many seedlings, so I did not mind experimenting. I am not a Bonsai enthusiast, but appreciate what they create.
As Mike mentioned. The Arabicums have the genetics to give us a true wide caudex, just do not have the flower colors and shapes as they are available in most Obesum X hybrids.
Even with the Arabicums, there is no garantee that you will get short fat squat ones such as Mike has shown.
The Arabicums also can differ as obesum's in genetic characteristics.
Your chances are far greater.
Snipping the leaves or removing will make the leaves smaller over time and this is what bonsai growers do.
I believe these practices are making changes, but these plants will never produce what a natural occuring Arabicum will produce.
Giving an Arabicum ample room to grow is a factor supported by many experienced growers to have them grow wide caudex's.
There are many genus that do not respond to nipping of the terminal bud to give more lateral branches.

This 'obesum' seedling is showing some interesting root development at the surface (cannot see in photo), but it will be a bonsai Adenium obesum of sorts with it's developing root system/caudex that will give it character.

Fun to try and will watch to see how it grows.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 9:54AM
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tapla (mid-MI z5b-6a)

When you remove leaves or reduce the amount of leaf surface a plant has by cutting through leaves across venation, you reduce the amount of food a plant can make. This actually decreases the rate at which the plant grows, including the rate of caudex growth. It also has the effect of reducing branch extension (shortens internodes) and decreases o/a leaf size. Because it reduces a plant's ability to make food, you should employ the technique only on healthy material and during the part of the growth cycle when growth is most robust.

Al

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 3:04PM
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egyronin(6B-7-BK,NY)

Rick this is a interesting little plant."There are many genus that do not respond to nipping of the terminal bud to give more lateral branches"
is there any way to tell which genus respond better to nipping or is it a matter of experience?

Al.When you remove leaves or reduce the amount of leaf surface a plant has by cutting through leaves across venation, you reduce the amount of food a plant can make. This actually decreases the rate at which the plant grows, including the rate of caudex growth

so cutting leaves is actually going to slow down even the caudex growth,so why or may be how this technique is used to enlarge caudex in some trees?
is the growth slows down for a little and then a huge spurt of growth is going to happen?is this is the idea behind it?
say on a health tree, i am assuming that you dont use this every season right?.
interesting subject indeed.maybe i will try this on some of my seedling.best regard.
A.Gaber

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 6:30PM
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tapla (mid-MI z5b-6a)

"so cutting leaves is actually going to slow down even the caudex growth,so why or may be how this technique is used to enlarge caudex in some trees?" I don't see how it COULD be. A caudex thickens in proportion to the number of cells laid down in files at the vascular cambium. The more food the plant makes, the more cells it's able to produce and the faster it thickens. The less food it makes - the slower it thickens. So the smaller the leaf surface the less food the less the caudex can thicken.

Al

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 10:43PM
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adenium1949

Hello all,
This has been a very interesting thread, so I would like to add my own (casual) observations regarding caudex development, but this time during the winter. I have come to believe that it is a great benefit to give otherwise dormant plants full access to whatever sun is available during the winter as I have noticed that the caudex can flush green at that time without leaves. This must mean that photosynthesis is occuring and I am convinced that caudex can increase in size even when the plant is leafless. I have several plants that have "gained weight" during the winter judging by the space in the pots. Also I water "dormant" plants a little as I believe they are still active inside. I know that many growers store plants dry and dark during the winter and they can certainly do well with that method. As I said before these are just casual observations, but could it be the same effect as leaf pruning I wonder ?
Happy growing,
Brian UK.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2014 at 6:06PM
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tapla (mid-MI z5b-6a)

Many plants are able to carry on photosynthesis in young stem tissue that still shows green tint, so I'm certain that some degree of photosynthesizing ability remains in those organs not yet covered by the thickening of the periderm .... so I don't think it would be out of line to suggest there might be some increase in mass (the true measure of growth) while the plant is in a situational dormant state. Again, you propose a situation where the plant would add to its total food production, while leaf trimming would reduce the plants ability to produce food. One adds to growth potential, the other subtracts.

Al

    Bookmark   February 17, 2014 at 9:05PM
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kuroc(z8 AR)

Very interesting topic.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 12:55PM
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kodom087 z9a

Wow! This thread has gotten some activity lately. Glad to read the posts. Come spring time I'll post pics of my experiment in this when they come out of dormancy. I should add I did attempt this on a couple of obesum seedlings and some of my arabicum hybrids. I think the better results will be with arabicum.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 3:52AM
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egyronin(6B-7-BK,NY)

Al thankx for answering,can i recommend something?why dont you write about pruning?i think you have done this already.but i think a lot of us here including my self,cant understand pruning with the intention to shape.like cant get any thing to branch from the base.if i snip a branch it just makes another one or two down the same branch.sorry i getting off topic here.
cant wait for the pics Kirk. how old were the seedling when you started trying this?.best regard A.Gaber

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 4:10PM
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bilabongbong Z11b

To:
ladylotus

You said in August 2013, "I am going to try that with a few of my seedlings to see if that will increase the girth of the caudex."

Did it? Please share results.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2015 at 10:56AM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

I believe that it did with the one I tried the "ballooning" with, but I believe that it is no different as a Bonsai. As Al mentions. Probably best when done when in active growth. This is when the majority of the Adenium growers would recommend doing pruning aslo.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2015 at 1:52PM
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bilabongbong Z11b

Thanks again for sharing Rick.

bong

    Bookmark   March 2, 2015 at 10:09AM
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