Rust free rose recommendations

north_ca_rose(9b)May 11, 2011

Rust is thriving this year in Livermore, at least in my garden. Unfortunately the weather forecast predicts cool temperatures for the next 10 days. I've never before wished for hot weather. Following advise found on this forum and the rose forum, I've pruned and removed the leaves from my hardest hit roses and removed infected leaves from other roses.

The five most infected roses were Kisme, Archduke Charles, Lilac Charm, Valentine, and Dame de Coeur. Valentine and Dame de Coeur were just recently purchased. All have what I consider to be good locations - 6+ hours of sun and adequate room. Many of my other floribundas and hybrid teas have some rust appearing on the bottom of the bushes. The Austins (Prospero, Evelyn, Falstaff, The Mayflower, Mary Rose,Pretty Jessica) appear to be rust free along with the teas (Monsieur Tillier, Maman Cochet, Niles Cochet, Madame Antoine Mari), and chinas (Hermosa,Comtesse du Cayla) with the exception of Archduke Charles. The found roses (Grandmother's Hat, Maggie, Benny Lopez) are also rust free. Time will tell if these roses stay rust free.

As I think about SPing the major culprits, do you have any recommendations for rust free replacements? It would also be wonderful if they wouldn't succumb to powdery mildew too, as this is also an issue in the spring.

In a previous thread I saw that rosecorgis had rust problems with Valentine in 2010. How is the rose doing this year?

Thanks so much for your help and advice,


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jerijen(Zone 10)

How old is your Archduke Charles?
I ask, because I have NEVER seen rust on that rose, and I'm thinking it may be immaturity, or just transient conditions.
This has been a truly AWFUL spring, with rain far later in the year than is "normal."
I'd say, if these are first-year roses, please give Archduke Charles another year!
Prospero CAN mildew, if it is prued too hard.
Mons Tillier, Maman and Niles Cochet I have never seen rust.
Hermosa mildewed for me.
GramHat should not rust.
Benny Lopez may mildew in late Fall, on senile foliage (this doesn't bother me) but is otherwise clean.

I really think you are dealing with immature plants in very atypical conditions.


    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:40PM
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Given the rust free nature of my other chinas, I too was surprised that Archduke Charles was covered in rust. According to my rose records, yes I do keep detailed records, the rose was purchased and planted in the Fall of 2009 as a one gallon plant from Chamblees. I was extremely happy with the rose last year but this year the rose has appeared to be under siege by powdery mildew and rust. The rose has received the same amount of fertilizer and water as my other roses and gets 6+ hours of sun.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:34AM
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I find that as far as rust goes roses can be divided into three groups, at least here in California. Gardeners in other climates do not seem to have the rust problems we do, possibly our payback for having less blackspot. There are those that rarely rust (possibly never?), those that rust every year all season long, and those that rust in some years, or only at the end of the season as fall approaches. I tolerate the the first and last group but have removed from my garden those that fall into the middle category. I should mention that rainy spring years like this one seem to foster rust, or such has been my experience.

The worst rose I ever grew, as far as rust was concerned, came with the house. As I was cleaning up the front garden that first spring I found a shrub rose with its original tag labeled "Pink Rose $4.50". It was a complete rust bucket, covered with rust from the first new leaves in the spring and all season long. If I stripped the leaves, sprayed it with sulfur, and lay down new mulch, the new leaves had a few weeks then rust would reappear. I've never seen a rose as bad as Pink Rose Four-Fifty, and I hope I never do.

Good luck finding roses that do not mildew or rust in the California climate. They exist, but it may be a process finding the right ones for your spot. I have removed a number of roses for disease problems, roses that go on to do well for gardeners in other micro-climates. I particularly find that many teas and noisettes have bad mildew problems for me, though others are quite healthy. I will shortly be removing Celine Forestier for just that reason. It mildews badly every year. I'm just waiting until the spring flush it over. I might as well enjoy that while I can.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:51AM
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The only roses that have rusted in my garden are HTs, and some modern "large flowered climbers" like Golden Showers rust, period. I only have a few HTs - from the 1940s thru the 1960s, and they ALL rust. None of my teas, chinas, noisettes, hybrid musks, polyanthas, or modern ground cover roses rust.

So, my advice would be to avoid HTs!


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 11:46AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

For us, in coastal Ventura Co., many Teas can mildew, particularly when immature. MOST (not all) outgrow it eventually. Most are more mildew-resistant when not pruned, much, or at all.

Pink China Roses of the Old Blush group mildew. Period.
Red China Roses seem to be completely disease-free.

Most Hybrid Perpetuals will rust here, sooner or later. Some more, some less.

Archduke Charles -- one in question -- we have grown here off and on for more than 20 years, and I have never known it to rust OR mildew here.

Hybrid Teas are a mixed bag, but for me, mildew is a bigger problem than rust with them. A few are disease-free here. Many of the more heavily-petalled don't open here anyhow, so it's useless to grow them in this place.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:16PM
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Funny, I was just thinking that with a wet spring I don't have rust this year. Valentine, who suffered terribly last year, looks good this year. It's just finishing it's first flush and I'll deadhead this weekend and check under the leaves. The tops look fine and the bush doesn't look sick like last year.

The other one that suffered terribly last year was my Austin Carding Mill. No rust this year.

My spring flush is in full form right now and looks good. I do have some mildew but I get a little every year and it cleans up as soon as the heat hits.

This is my Valentine's third year on own root. It was much smaller last year.

I'd hold off a year if you like the rose. For me, it's a short blue red that I have right in front of a dwarf blue spruce. The combo really looks good.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:59PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Looking back, I should have said that Benny Lopez can RUST in late fall on Senile foliage. He's not mildewed for us here.

Of course, all any of us can really vouch for is our own microclimates, but as has been noted here, this has been a bad year for weather, with rain so much later in the year than our average that nothing is "normal." I personally wouldn't judge any roses based on their performance in this strange year. (Though I will note that, for the first time, 'Mme. Antoine Rebe' is blooming like mad here without a speck of mildew. Go figure.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 3:59PM
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I grow Old Garden Tea roses and have never seen rust on any of them. I've grown:

Caveat Rosa:
"Angels camp Tea"
"Georgetown Tea"
the China-Tea "Ducher"
though all three were left behind when I moved for they were covered with powdery mildew.
"Duchess de Brabant" also gets a lot of pm in spring, when wet, but not enough to defoliate.

My most disease resistant roses in my no-spray garden in the eastern part of the San Francisco Bay area have been:

Souvenir de Pierre Notting"
Rosette Delizzy"
"Westside Road Cream Tea" very disease resistant
"Marie Van Houtte"
"Mlle. Franziska Kruger" though I nearly gave her away because in her first year she was covered with p.m., but now is very clean, a remarkable turn around that makes me agree with Jeri Jennings' theory that immunity to disease in Old Garden Tea roses is related to the maturity, and size of the plant.
"Le Pactole" a little p.m, when young but grew out of it.
"Mrs. Dudley Cross" clean and gorgeous
"Clementina Carbonieri" a little blackspot but no defoliation.

"Nastarana" clean foliage, rapid rebloom and its lovely scent wafts around the bush to several feet away.
"Catos Cluster" my favorite pink Noisette for its beautiful soft foliage and damask type rose scent.

Lamarque" takes top honors A+ for clean foliage among the Tea-Noisettes
followed by: A to A- group that show light p.m. in only the wettest months of the year.
Celine Forestier
Crepescule" I'm espaliering this rosebush as well.
Marechel Niel"

and these H.P.s
Souvenir du Dr. Jamain" very clean
Jacques Cartier
Mme. Boll
roses from other classes:
Belle Sultane" very clean
alba semi plena, no surprise there, it is nearly bulletproof
Mermaid" very clean. It is big and thorny so I'm espaliering it to decrease its size by half.
"Grandmothers Hat"

Healthy Hybrid Musk roses:
Callisto, a fragrant yellow H.M.
Queen of the Musk" a beautiful rose.

other classes
Perle d'Or
Mme. Cecille Brunner" I grow the smallest and original form.
Borderor" a BOurbon X Poly
and healthiest roses in my neighbors no spray garden include:
alba odorata a sublime rose and you have enough heat in Livermore for it to open fully every day.
Rose des Rescht" from ( I got my rust ridden one from M------- in Sacramento)
Grandmothers Hat
Champneys Pink Cluster " from r.v.r

Mme. Cecille Brunner
Perle d'Or
All the Banksiae roses.

From my experience, I believe that mature Tea, China and Noisette rosebushes are as a group, the healthiest Old roses of all that re-bloom, in the s.f. bay area.

Healthiest red Old Roses, in our area, that rebloom
George Dickson" a fragrant red cabbage shaped rose. and
Gloire des Rosomanes, my fave red China

Healthiest red modern roses include: "Crimson Glory"

Healthiest Pernetianas:
cl. "Duquesa de Penardana"
Gruss an Coberg"

Morcom park in Oakland is a no-spray garden by law, if you drive to Olive st and Oakland ave and park there, and walk down the long stairs you'll come to the Florentine, Oaklands old rose garden where there are c. 200 different roses including dozens of cultivars of Pernetiana roses, China, Teas Noisettes all grown with never a drop of spray of any kind. Its a good place to get ideas for healthy roses.
-Nothing beats local information, when regarding health in roses.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 7:29PM
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Luxrosa and I live not all that far apart, East Bay and South Bay. She lists Celine Forestier as having only a little mildew. It is consistently one of the worst powdery mildew victims I grow, year after year. I am getting ready to remove it for just that reason.

You can take recommendations, but you really do have to audition them in your own garden under your own conditions.


    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 11:16AM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I don't have rust in my garden (after getting rid of Gruss an Aachen, which apparently also infected the adjoining Carnation, if such a thing is possible). Imagine my surprise when Mrs. B.R. Cant developed rusty leaves! That was a stunner for me. She's a young plant so hopefully this won't be a continuing problem, but I was still very surprised. She's in a very sunny, open, windy location, which makes it more of a mystery. There's no way I'd give her up though. I've wanted this rose for a long time. Mildew is more of a problem because of the late rains (which I consider a great blessing, no matter what the roses think of it). Worst at this point are Mrs. Woods Lavender Pink Noisette, whose blooms are all spoiled, and Bishop's Castle, whose blooms fortunately still look pretty.


    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 11:23AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

LUX Said: From my experience, I believe that mature Tea, China and Noisette rosebushes are as a group, the healthiest Old roses of all that re-bloom, in the s.f. bay area.
Healthiest red Old Roses, in our area, that rebloom
George Dickson" a fragrant red cabbage shaped rose. and
Gloire des Rosomanes, my fave red China

*** With the exception of George Dickson, which I've not grown, these comments from Lux apply equally to my own coastal SoCal garden.
But I will likewise agree with Rosefolly, who reminds us that we can take all the recommendations we want, but we must STILL "audition" them in our gardens.
There just ain't no guarantees, and there are very few shortcuts.


    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 7:45PM
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Thank you for your suggestions and advise. As planning additions to my rose garden is a favorite activity of mine, I'll use your suggestions as a starting point. Thanks for the tip on Morcom park; I'll plan an outing soon. Rosecorgi, I will not give up on Valentine as it still is a very young rose. I'm glad someone in Livermore does not have rust this year. Archduke Charles is still a favorite of mine and will give it another year. FYI, I was talking last evening with a friend of mine who grows Archduke Charlies in Walnut Creek. And it too got hit by rust. Perhaps it isn't the rose's year here in the East Bay.

Growing roses is so very interesting with differences in microclimates and yearly weather variations. Just when you think you have a handle on your garden, there is always a surprise. Last year Clotilde Soupert looked horrible - balling, PM, and some BS. This year it is a gorgeous rose without a hint of fungus. I know that I had nothing to do with this but hope it happens again.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2011 at 12:23AM
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