leaf problems

averil(8b)September 18, 2012

Hi folks, I have some problems with leaves on a couple of my 3 mth old seedlings. First pic shows distorted leaves

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averil(8b)

this pic shows discolouration at the tips. I have gone over these plants with a magnifying glass (much to my husbands horror!) and I can see no beasts in any shape or form. Any ideas what may be causing both these problems. As usual your help is always very much appreciated
Many thanks
Averil

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 6:41AM
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averil(8b)

Sorry im being very long winded with this but I dont know how to post two pics on the same page. The last thing is that the plants look very healthy other than these two probs

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 6:43AM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

I don't no about the distorted one but as for the discolored ones I got them on mine too... I got told it was either root Rot (too much water) or not enough water... (which is what I think mine was) but u can get it from sunburn too I've found. I actually had a problem with mine... I had two leaves just never grow to full size... They just stayed really small and the stem continued to rise and grow more full sized leaves but these two just stayed small... Do u know why that is? I thought maybe they were being shaded from the sun by te other leaves so they didn't grow?

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 7:26AM
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averil(8b)

Thanks for your reply sbrow. I would doubt over-watering has been my problem, I tend to keep them quite dry so maybe theyve not been getting enough (Gosh its a bit of a minefield eh?). I have bottom leaves on mine that are smaller than ones further up the stem. I wouldve thought that would be normal. However Im new to these plants, Ive never even seen an adult one in real life. I bought some seeds on ebay this year and planted a load. Its funny because these plants do become a bit of an obsession eh?
Rgds
Averil

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 12:18PM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

I know! I have a couple of big ones and im really not sure how often to water? once a week? once every two? so confused... and yeh i started off with a seedling and now i have like 2 more adult plants and some cuttings :P and still planning on getting more :P crazy desert rose people :P

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 6:54PM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Don't mean to horn in on your thread, but you both seem to be very keen on these Adeniums and so am I.
It is so different when we live in different climates and have to regulate according to temperatures and sunlight available.
I had a Thai Soco leaf out averil and it had produced very healthy new leaves. Shortly afterwards I noticed the end of leaf margin becoming wilted/soft, then this turned dry and continued along the edge.
I believe that it is due to it drying back too much.
It is tuff when you are new to these learning how to regulate watering.
My planting medium is very porous and requires more frequent watering depending on the time of year.
During there growing season I need to water more frequently and winter here is too cold to have outside. Then my watering is very sparse.
I have become accustom to gaging by weight of pots from dry to wet.
Still all a learning experience.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 9:55PM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

yeh...i live in a very hot humid climate...(very good for adeniums ive heard?) and it probably gets down to about 12 degrees Celsius at the coldest in the year and thats still with 25 degrees days. Anyway my medium is pretty porous too so i think about once a week is good watering in the summer here (otherwise they get too dry) but my seedling needs more...i water that every 4 or 5 days i think ive been doing...coz theres not much change in degrees during the day in winter then summer i just bring em in at night in winter and they are usually fine. its over 20 degrees in the house so thats fine for them.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 1:42AM
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averil(8b)

Hi folks.R Charles I tend to water by the weight of the pot. If it feels light i tend to think "ha ha nice and dry I shall leave you for a few more days and then give you some water". Its possible the wee souls have been more thirsty than I thought. Well its autumn here now and i have brought them in from the greenhouse. They are on a south facing windowsill and I remove them and put them on the worktop at night. I think their watering requirements will be a lot less in the winter for obvious reasons but Im going to have to be careful because I would be gutted if I lose them now
Many thanks folks and "happy planting"
Rgds
Averil

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 3:20AM
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karyn1(7a)

I'm not sure what the reason is for the discoloration (browning) of the foliage but I get that only when the days shorten and temps begin to cool. Maybe the plants become more sensitive to environmental conditions with the change of seasons? It's not the regular yellowing that most of the leaves go thru before dropping. I always get it the same time of year and only on a handful of leaves. It also doesn't happen on all the plants. This has been happening for many years and the plants are fine the following season.

The distorted/discolored new foliage really does look like some type of mite or thrip damage. I might be inclined to pinch back the tip. It will just induce branching and caudex growth and you can see how the new foliage grows in.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 6:52AM
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averil(8b)

Hi Karyn, I held my breath and pinched out the distorted leaves. Not all of the plants have this leaf browning. I shall just let them plod on and hope I get them through the winter okay. Many thanks once again for your input
Rgds
Averil

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 7:25AM
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teyo(7b)

if a spray of insecticide/akaricide and fungicide doesn't help, then it is most probably a nutrient deficiency. calcium, boron and copper deficiencies tend to manifest in distorted new leaves and tip rot... check your fertilizer for these elements, also keep in mind that Ca, Mg and K have an antagonistic relationship...

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 8:04AM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Has anyone used insecticidal soap on Adenium seedlings? If so, was there any leaf burn or other?
Some say to spray on, then wash off with water a 1 hr. later.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 10:39AM
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averil(8b)

Hi Teyo,
I feed them miraclegrow @ 1 tsp in 2 galls of water once every 2 weeks. Oh heck Im afraid that fertilizer elements have always been a bit of a mystery to me :).
Charles I havent used insecticidal soap but I have used surgical spirit/water 1:10. But I havent been growing these too long. Im sure someone else can answer about the soap
Kind regards
Averil

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 11:27AM
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karyn1(7a)

Averil teyo mentioned a mineral deficiency which is a possibility. I use CalMag Plus on almost all my plants. It's an excellent product but I'm not sure if it's sold in the UK. If not you probably have something similar, especially if you have access to a hydroponics shop, or you can get it from the states. I use it regardless if my plants are showing any sign of a deficiency. I also use ProTekt which contains potassium and silica. The silica helps strengthen the cell walls to protect the plant against sucking insects. I use it at almost every watering on all my plants.
I don't buy from these suppliers. I just used these links for product description.

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/dyna-gro-pro-tekt-0-0-3

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/cal-mag.html

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 2:03PM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

I know that Mark Dimmitt recommends 10-16-38 on young plants, but this is not something that I have had any luck finding.
I am going to look into what karyn has mentioned. Sounds like a good lead.
Karyn, do you use anything in particular on Adenium seedlings for aphis?
I have not had too much of an issue with them , but a couple times and have sprayed them with water to discourage. Concerned about it insecticides damaging the leaves.
There are recipes for white oil sprays, not sure.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 7:57PM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Karyn,
Please disregard my question about aphids. You have kindly answered this already. My appoligies, must of had a memory lapse.
Thank you.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 8:03PM
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averil(8b)

Hiya Karyn, thanks for your reply. I shall look for CalMag. I do think it may be a feeding problem. I started feeding them at 6 weeks old . I was recommended one spoonful of miraclegro to 2 galls of water every 2 weeks. I have been using a small teaspoon. Theyre obviously now bigger. Is it possible that I am underfeeding and should be using a tablespoon perhaps?
Regards
Averil

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 7:34AM
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teyo(7b)

just to put a comparison, i use a 11-11-35 + ME for young plants, they love it and develop nice bushy roots. i fertilize each time i water them, but with a lower concentration.
i'd advise when writing your fertilizer to write the npk ratio and preferably which ME's it has (or doesn't have). commercial name means nothing to people from different markets, there is a bigger chance of reply if the details are given ;)

here's a baby that was fed with the afore mentioned fertilizer:

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 1:11PM
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karyn1(7a)

I use a low nitrogen, high phosphorus and high potassium (N:P:K = nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium) fertilizer to promote root development (almost the same thing I use as a bloom booster). Personally I don't like Miracle Grow products but know people that swear by it and have great results. I dilute the fertilizer quite a bit with young plants and depending on how often I feed my mature plants sometimes dilute it with them as well. I also add micronutrients, including the ones I mentioned earlier. With very young plants I dilute everything. I don't think that you are under feeding but you might want to use about 1/4 of the recommended dosage of fertilizer and use it with every watering.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 2:39PM
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averil(8b)

Oh this feeding business really confuses me. I was useless at chemistry at school ha ha. Anyways ive just looked at the bottle of miracle grow and it is 6-3-6 with micronutrients. So I am assuming that is high nitrogen, low phosphorous and high potassium. I have been using that at a rate of one teaspoon:2 galls every two weeks

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 3:28PM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Teyo,
Where do you get this fertilizer? Did not look to see where you live.
This fertilizer is similar in N-P-K as to what Mark Dimmitt would recommend for young plants also.
If you have a company name I might be able to find it.
Most of the fertilizers I have seen are very high in "P" which are all too high for Adeniums. A high 'K' is best.
rcharles

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 7:52PM
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teyo(7b)

rcharles, it is produced by a small company in slovenia, our neighbor (i'm in croatia), they only sell locally so i doubt you'll find it anywhere :/ but as i said, only the ingredients are of value, just look for something similar where you are.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 5:21AM
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karyn1(7a)

Rcharles check a hydroponics store. You will find a high potassium fertilizer. Just look for something labeled 'bloom booster'. Not the crappy bloom boosters that are sold in places like HD or the other big box stores. I use a high potassium feed for my passifloras and other plants as a bloom booster. I also use small amounts of chopped banana peels added to the soil. I was told that increases the potassium. I don't know if the potassium from the bananas actually transfers to the soil or maybe it's just increased organic matter but the passion vines seem to love it and it increases blooming.

Teyo I've been after DH for a couple years to go to Croatia for vacation. I've heard from several people that it's beautiful, especially the beaches.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 6:24AM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Thanks karyn I am going to look for something at hydroponics.

Teyo, just out of curiosity, could you give me the name of the product as my brother-in-law is from Slovenia and I wouldn't mind looking into it.
Nothing may come of it, but worth a try.
rcharles

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 8:46AM
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karyn1(7a)

Rcharles I didn't realize that you also were outside the US, so I guess just disregard my HD reference. The hydroponics shops around here carry a wide variety of fertilizers and micronutrients. I buy the majority of my supplies from them. Of course I'm probably one of the few customers that aren't growing pot. I was so naive and didn't realize who they catered to for the longest time. If you don't find any locally there's plenty online.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 8:56AM
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teyo(7b)

rcharles, the product name is kristalit, i'll look up the company name when i get home! it is also used as hydroponics feed. i think you could find something like it in any hydroponics store, and especially ebay, it is labeled as a bloom booster, and lots of hydroponics "growers" cough-cough want extra blooms :D

karyn, well what are you waiting for :D yeah we have a ton of islands and nice beaches. (shameless plug) i have a house with apartments that i rent out during the summer, it's located 80 km from Dubrovnik, but in a very peaceful and private place 10 meters from the sea. if you ever decide to come here shoot me a message :D

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 9:00AM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Thanks teyo and karyn, I know what you mean about HD stores. We have them here also. The only thing I did find there of good use was
The coarse Coconut husks/coir, which are a goods size for mixing with my soil for Adeniums.
What would be the worst case senario with my Adenium seedlings if I did not put them under the grow lights. Maybe asking an obvious question.
Etiolation, death etc. What age would one consider safe to go dormant.
Rcharles

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 10:48AM
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karyn1(7a)

Mine almost all go dormant by the second winter. I've never had one go dormant the first year, even if I started them very early. I would definitely use lights. There's no need to invest in grow lights if you don't have a lot of plants. You can use a fluorescent shop light. Aquarium lights are also very good but are just as expensive as grow lights.

Teyo I'll have to keep that in mind.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 1:06PM
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teyo(7b)

rcharles, i looked up the company name, here's a link to their page:
http://www.agrolit.si/index_ang.html
the product name is kristalit cvet, but i don't see it in that crappy catalog they have, maybe you can send them an email and ask.

also, there is one similar product i used, it's very popular here, similar formulation, produced by Yarra, product name Kristalon.
i've found some here similar to one i used, they are labeled by colors, over here there is a whole palette, the brown one on this page is pretty similar:
http://www.agrostatus.com.ua/en/products/mneraln-dobriva/vodorrozchinn-dobriva-dlja-fertigac-ta-listkovogo-pdzhivlennja/jara-kristalon/
yara is a well known international company, produces professional fertilizers.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 7:23AM
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teyo(7b)

incredible but i couldn't find a decent table of that yara fertilizers, here's one on a croatian page, you can figure it out easily because the formulas are linked to color and nicely written out:
http://www.colic-trade.com/hydro.php
i used the white one with good success, 13-5-26. good thing is the N is in nitrate form, ammonium tends to elongate the plants, while nitrate is okay.
if you use google chrome it will even translate the page to be more or less understandable.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 8:02AM
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rcharles_gw(8a.)

Thank you teyo. Going to check these out and will let you know how I make out.

karyn, thanks for the reply. I think I had better use the lights.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 9:51AM
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